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Fix Narc Or Lrm


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#1 Arcturious

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:54 AM

Posted Image

Games like this are becoming far too common. Not only was one team without ECM. The other team had a NARC, and LRM boats.

It was GG within the first minute, as soon as I saw the NARC and some LRM I knew it didn't matter. By landing on caustic we were pretty much dead before it even started.

Sure, I got NARC'ed. I even knew I got NARC'ed, I retreated into D2. It is the largest drop off on the map within range. The wall next to me is literally 3-4 times my height.

I was still getting LRM coming in, right over the ridge from C3 and killed me. Even going into cover, with a NARC is certain death. You have to be underneath something, or have a SIGNIFICANT height advantage over the LRM boat and cover that extends to 4-5 times your own mechs height. Anything less than a tunnel or bridge etc just flat out doesn't cut it.

God forbid you are in a slower mech. I wouldn't have even made it to cover to extend my life for that few seconds I got. I would have just died outright. Once a NARC hits you and you see the LRM come in, you may as well just quit out of the match and move on rather than waste your time.

Nearly every match for the last few weeks has been exactly the same. One team gets NARC and LRM boats, instant win. I don't believe I've ever been on a team that has won when the other team has even just 2 LRM boats plus NARC. It is seriously creating a toxic environment in the game right now. As evidenced by the number of threads about it on the forum. Surely PGI sees it and surely they must be going to make some changes. I hope so anyway.

On Wednesday night, I broke down and ran an LRM boat and won the only match I launched in it, myself alone got 4 kills and hundreds of damage because I was on a team that had NARC. I haven't been able to make myself run LRM's again before or since as it is such a clearly broken system it feels too much like abuse right now.

I just can't believe nothing has been hot fixed for this yet. They knew this, it's not a new issue. NARC used to have checks and balances built in to stop this, after damage it would fall off and it wouldn't go through ECM. Yes at the time it needed a buff to try and get people to run it. However just like everything else in the game it doesn't exist in isolation. The game has changed so NARC or LRM need to change again to adjust.

Right now, it does everything in one. Improves target speed, improves clustering, probably even unintentionally improves trajectory thanks to poor coding, goes through ECM and doesn't fall off.

It's yet another example of PGI making multiple changes to a system instead of trying just one at a time. Perhaps increase the damage before it falls off. Perhaps make it only go through ECM for a few seconds before it burns out thanks to needing to boost the signal. Perhaps reduce the clustering and target bonuses if it lasts so long.

Whatever happens, it needs to happen soon as nearly every game is ending with the team that has the luck to land with NARC and LRM is almost guaranteed to win. It's that simple. I challenge PGI to post the stats to prove otherwise. The team with more LRM and more NARC than the other I'm betting will statistically win more often than the team with less LRM and NARC's. No matter the skill or Elo ranges on either side.

I can't believe I'm statistically that unlucky to be seeing this in every second match. On my stream, I have had people comment to me the same thing. I know it's not just me. I see far too many matches that have outcomes determined by these broken systems for it to be otherwise.

Well over 10k matches played since closed beta. I know I'm not the best player in the game, but I'm decent. It doesn't take the best player in the game to know a broken system when they see one.

Edited by Arcturious, 05 July 2014 - 01:56 AM.


#2 MajorLeeHung

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:03 AM

Feels like another "nerf LRM's thread" Sorry you cant just stand in the open and not get melted. NARC is fine. If your team has 2 ECM it doesnt work. if it fell of with damage no one would use it. Again. I mean really. Also my merc core has no issues useing buildings and cover to counter narc. Maybe you just had a few bad games or a bad map with buggy terrain.


But for the love of god quit calling for lrm and narc nerfs when they are not needed.

Edited by MajorLeeHung, 05 July 2014 - 02:04 AM.


#3 Wingbreaker

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:03 AM

>posts whine about LRMs
>Doesn't notice Heim's CTF-3D

#4 Monkey Lover

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:12 AM

12 mechs couldnt kill one naring mech? Last time this happen to me ii yelled out "jenner narcing kill it" it died not long after. By the way the last 3games I took a raven with a narc I had one maybe two mechs with 10-15 each.Its very rare for me to narc and have lrm boats at the same time.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 05 July 2014 - 02:17 AM.


#5 Arcturious

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:28 AM

View PostWingbreaker, on 05 July 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

>posts whine about LRMs
>Doesn't notice Heim's CTF-3D


You'll notice he only managed to secure 1 kill. It's because 3-4 mechs were dead from NARC and LRM in the first minute of the game.

Yes this is most certainly a nerf NARC / LRM thread. If you people are getting sick of them, then obviously something is not right in the state of denmark.

Maybe open your eyes and see that in a competitive match, being 1-2 mechs down is game deciding. A NARC and LRM boat combo guarantees those 1-2 mech kills.

From there it snowballs. People like Heim are good for sure, but in a game like this all they got to do was sit back and shoot while the enemy scurries around trying to hide from the acid rain. It's easy to rack up damage when the enemy can't respond to you thanks to being melted by indirect, 100% guaranteed death.

Also, stop a think for a second. I'm often in these matches and seeing these names. If I'm coming to the forums to register my dissatisfaction in how a system is working currently it's not because I have no clue how the game played out. Le Sigh.

#6 MischiefSC

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:35 AM

I remember that match!

Look, here's the thing. I have my own irritations with NARC on Caustic and Alpine for that very reason - it's certain death if you're not careful.

Radar Derp module helps for LRMs in every other instance but these are bad. There's 4 points on the map (stone spires, both bases and the hills near the south base) where you can find safe cover.

Otherwise... yeah. You're boned.

#7 pwnface

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:40 AM

I've definitely been NARC'd an LRM ***** more than once but please don't put LRMs and competitive in the same sentence. You will see 0 LRMs on high level competitive teams because they are easily countered. Having a few triple AMS ECM kitfoxes on your team completely negates LRMs. Yes, NARC + LRM spam can be extremely deadly in pug matches when you aren't sure if you will have countermeasure, but it is in no way overpowered at competitive levels. I think you are better off asking PGI to nerf heimdelight because aim is OP.

#8 Sapstengel

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:41 AM

Dude, you went against (probably a premade) lance with Heimdelight and Mischief. It's not just the LRM's that got you ROFLSTOMPED. Just be glad they didn't win with 13-0.

Nothing to see here, please move along.

#9 Alistair Winter

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:43 AM

NARC finally has a purpose. It's worth its weight now. I am glad.

ECM is still a problem, since 2012. You'll drop into a match where one team has 3 ECM's, the other team has 0 ECM's. It's ridiculous. Unless the whole team is a bunch of poptarts, the value of the ECM is crazy, and matchmaker doesn't seem to give a single ****.

#10 MischiefSC

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:46 AM

Pugging, I think we all were. Maybe a premade for Mad Pig but I dunno.

We played very aggressively, we pushed and kept the other team from getting to cover or using it safely. They split up and got destroyed.

This had nothing to do with LRMs and everything to do with the new nature of matches in solo queue -

You absolutely can NOT mill around, waiting for someone to lead you or carry you. You use chat, you play VERY aggro and you split, then chew and destroy, the other team.

#11 Satan n stuff

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:47 AM

View PostArcturious, on 05 July 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:


You'll notice he only managed to secure 1 kill. It's because 3-4 mechs were dead from NARC and LRM in the first minute of the game.

For over 1000 damage he doesn't need to secure more kills, that's at least a full lance of dead mechs walking just because of him. Probably more because I doubt he spreads his damage much.

#12 pwnface

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:47 AM

Even if the enemy team is all poptarts, it is extremely difficult to call targets when everything is under ECM. "HEY GUISE SHOOT THAT TIMBERWOLF!!" "WHICH ONE?? THERE LIKE 5 OF THEM!!!" ECM is not ONLY useful for preventing LRMs, it makes it more difficult for the enemy team to know who to focus and where on the mech to shoot.

#13 MischiefSC

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 02:49 AM

Heimdelight put out 1k damage with a Cataphract 3d. It was either dakka or poptart goodness. For his high damage, probably some dakka nightmare build.

Again, this wasn't about the LRMs. It was about pugging aggro.

#14 pwnface

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:03 AM

I'm betting 2xac5 2xppc. I'd say 2xppc + gauss but 5 minutes isn't that much time and caustic is a hot map. Probably got a really nice arty/airstrike in too...

#15 MischiefSC

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:08 AM

View Postpwnface, on 05 July 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

I'm betting 2xac5 2xppc. I'd say 2xppc + gauss but 5 minutes isn't that much time and caustic is a hot map. Probably got a really nice arty/airstrike in too...


Good point, could have been arty. You just can't do 1k in 5 minutes with PPCs though. I'm thinking it was a 2xUAC build and some MLs. You do 1k with a poptart build you did a lot of killing.

#16 El Bandito

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:11 AM

View PostArcturious, on 05 July 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

Posted Image Games like this are becoming far too common. Not only was one team without ECM. The other team had a NARC, and LRM boats. .


Had a Spider-5D, whines about having no ECM. Especially considering the fact that the lost side had more LRM capable mechs. Bad thread is bad. And you call yourself a Founder?

What needs fixing is not the NARC, neither LRMs. It is ECM, first and foremost. Then we can talk about the previous two.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 July 2014 - 03:16 AM.


#17 pwnface

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:11 AM

If people are just sitting around ignoring him he could literally hold down his ac5s the entire 5 minutes and use good heat management to burst with PPCs. AC5/UAC5 really are dps monsters as you shed more heat than you gain.

#18 MischiefSC

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:28 AM

View Postpwnface, on 05 July 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

If people are just sitting around ignoring him he could literally hold down his ac5s the entire 5 minutes and use good heat management to burst with PPCs. AC5/UAC5 really are dps monsters as you shed more heat than you gain.


Maybe, only thing I know about him is that he regularly kills me :D Just assumed that if he was in a poptart it would have been killing a lot of people with relatively little damage.

#19 MajorLeeHung

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:09 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 05 July 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:


What needs fixing is not the NARC, neither LRMs. It is ECM, first and foremost. Then we can talk about the previous two.



^ This. this this this! 1000 times THIS

#20 ztac

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:24 AM

Love all the flaming from the pro LRM crowd. Guess you didn't even read what the OP said and just went off on one from the title!

The counters only work if you have them, cover only works on some maps and only in certain parts of those maps. This is part of the problem , also you say his team had LRM capable mechs, but a lot of people that actually want to play for fun will generally not carry LRM but more direct fire weapons as actually seeing and shooting targets is a lot more fun (for most people) than never seeing their target and just sending salvo after salvo of missiles at them.

I have explained in a lot of other LRM related posts why the counters are not as good as people think they are, and you can allways rely on the MM to give one team LRM heaven and the other team LRM hell !





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