71 replies to this topic

[Kyle Polulak]

Please let us know what you think of these new changes to Joystick handling:

• Absolute Inputs are now available for Joystick players (cl_joystick_absolute_inputs=1 in user.cfg)
  
• Deadzone for Rudder and Joystick separated (cl_joystick_deadzone and now cl_rudder_deadzone)

[Zolaz]

Is it time to buy a joystick yet?

[Panzerbjorn]

I'll give these changes a try, but last time I hooked up my joystick and rudder pedals to play the experience was abysmal and I was at a severe disadvantage against mouse players. It's too easy to get very fine pinpoint accuracy with a mouse. IMHO PGI either needs to introduce some challenge to using a mouse (by making it artificially harder to use, and I understand why PGI would NOT want to do this) or improve the joystick experience completely somehow to bring it up to the same average level of gameplay. All other MW games were played and meant to be played using a joystick - for me the biggest issue with MWO is the fact that you can't be a competitive player at all if you do use one. It ruins the continuity and immersion for me, a long-time player of the Tesla simpods at VWG and maker of homemade simpods for playing the PC MW games.

[Zolaz]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 15 July 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Not at all mandatory. If you happen to have one, it may be fun to test.

Hmmmm, I am an old school Tesla pods guy. I prefer a HOTA setup when I play MW. Just seems that a mech simulator game would give give better results with joystick, foot pedals and a throttle. Playing with mouse and keyboard is just easier and takes less practice to get good with.

I dont mind keyboard and mouse and I understand that more players have access to them because every PC has em. Just seems that a MW game should cater to a joystick. Or maybe it is part of that minimal viable product model that MWO subscribes to?

[evilC]

OK, not that I intend to aim with stick, but I thought I would give it a try.

Overall, absolute control is unusable for me.
There appears to be an enforced deadzone no matter what you do - reading numbers from UJR, it appears about 10%

On anything but super low sensitivities, it seems unusable (way too sensitive), but that is pretty much to be expected, you would probs want a stick with a huge throw to take advantage of absolute aiming.

When you hold CTRL for arm movement, it goes back to RELATIVE input!

On the lowest sensitivites, you cannot achieve full torso twist.

If you have cl_joystick_absolute_inputs=1 in your user.cfg, mouse aiming is unusable (view always snaps back to center).


here is the user.cfg entries I used:
gp_option_ShowCockpitGlass=0

cl_joystick_absolute_inputs=1
cl_joystick_deadzone=0
cl_rudder_deadzone=0

Edited by evilC, 15 July 2014 - 10:57 AM.

[Matthew Craig]

The mouse aiming being unusable was a tough one as there is no way to differentiate where the inputs originated from in the code.

Holding Ctrl for arm movement switching to relative input sounds like a potential overlooked bug though, I'll take a look at resolving that right away if that's the case.

I'm surprised the sensitivity slider isn't allowing you to get a good setup though.

[Siepher Hawkins]

even with the deadzone set to zero, there is about a 10 degree cone around center that i can't aim at as the reticle jumps past as soon as i move the joystick in any direction. my y axis is at minimum sensitivity, my x axis is not however if i drop it any lower than what it currently is at (which is rather low) i will not be able to have the full range of motion from my mech torso twist

Edit: my config is the same as evilC minus the cockpit glass

Edited by Siepher Hawkins, 15 July 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[AztecD]

cl_fov = 80

cl_joystick_gain = 8
cl_joystick_sensitivity = 0.50

gp_option_ShowCockpitGlass=0
r_DepthOfField=0
r_HDRGrainAmount=0.0

cl_joystick_absolute_inputs=1

----------------------------------

With the absolute imput enabled, joystick torso twist's reset to center

also mouse/joystick combo is not posible since mouse is all over the place with the absolute value

[evilC]

Matthew Craig, on 15 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

The mouse aiming being unusable was a tough one as there is no way to differentiate where the inputs originated from in the code.

Then why call it cl_joystick_absolute_inputs ?

It seems to me that you do some kind of pre-processing or know that info at some point because you have separate mouse and joystick sensitivity sliders.
If you could not tell one kind of input from another, how would that be possible?

Edited by evilC, 15 July 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[Winthrowe]

Matthew Craig, on 15 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I'm surprised the sensitivity slider isn't allowing you to get a good setup though.

It's not the sensitivity slider that's giving me trouble, it's the deadzone even though it's set to zero in the config, and slid all the way left in the config gui.

[JimboFBX]

Matthew Craig, on 15 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

The mouse aiming being unusable was a tough one as there is no way to differentiate where the inputs originated from in the code.

Of course there is...

http://docs.cryengin...DKDOC4/CryInput

I think what you really mean to say is, your code was not written to differentiate and would require non-trivial modification to accommodate that.

[JimboFBX]

And for christ sake, don't introduce new options without also giving a GUI equivalent. The old dead zone used to affect ONLY the rudder dead zone for me. Now it's just a useless widget that doesn't appear to do anything for my joystick. Setting it to 1 is the same as 0. I can confirm that cl_rudder_deadzone is basically the old deadzone value.

I use the Y axis for throttle, Z rotation (rudder) for turning, and the mouse for aiming. I don't use the X axis. The Z rotation on my joystick is a piece of crap that uses a voltage sensor to detect left/right and I rely on the deadzone to prevent random left movements caused by voltage flux from the wires moving around.

[Airic Gryphon]

Absolute inputs completly unusable for torso movement on my stick, especially in the y (pitch) axis. Its just way too sensitive no matter what settings I use.

Also can't use the full range of the joystick. For example: pulling the joystck back less than a 1/4 of its delection piches the torso all the way up.

Hardware used: CH Fighter Stick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Peddles.


EDIT: Just wanted to say thanks for working on improving joysticks. I also play fine using the old system so please always keep it as an option.

Edited by Airic Gryphon, 15 July 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[Lazor Sharp]

When i turn on the battle grid, my mech reverses and starts walking backward, and my throttle does not change any thing..... holding down the w key makes it go foward but releasing it it reverses and goes backward again and with the throttle in the dead zone....

I have tryed cl_joystick_absolute_inputs=1 and it does not work... same as it was before.....

i also like useing the mouse for those long range shots in advanced zoom, so having them both work at the same time is inpeartive....

I use a X52 pro

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 15 July 2014 - 07:12 PM.

[Foust]

First and foremost, Thank you Mr. Craig for working on this. There is a small subset of players that this work is targeted at and I appreciate your efforts.

I spent a bit over a hour tweaking the config file and the values in the GUI. It's close. It really is, however there are some show stoppers.

• There are no values on the sensitivity sliders. While I can say "somewhere around a third of the way up" I can't reference a repeatable number.
  
• Even with the dead zone slider full left (at zero value) there remains a dead zone in the game. (Further note on this below)
  
• I had to add cl_joystick_gain=0.75 cl_joystick_sensitivity=1 before I started to get a reasonable control of the mech
  
• Different mechs require different sensitivity settings to achieve their maximum traversal.

Here is what my user.cfg looked like when I was where I thought I could reasonably adjust from my mouse emulated stick.

cl_joystick_absolute_inputs=1
cl_joystick_gain=0.75
cl_joystick_sensitivity=1
cl_joystick_deadzone=0
cl_rudder_deadzone=0.5

In the GUI I had the X sensitivity somewhere around a third of the way up, with Y sensitivity just barely on.

These settings were for the Ember I was using to test with to start. As I was typing this up I realized I had not tested with a different chassis. I loaded up the Hunchback 4G. I had to go from around a third to almost full right on the slider to get full traversal + arms. (To test I set my heading to 0 North and twisted right.) We need to be able to use the same sensitivities across every chassis.

On the topic of the dead zone it almost acts like it is reporting no movement up to a certain value but then instead of starting from that value it jumps to that position. So lets say a centered stick reports 0 and full right deflection reports 16383. (This is what my stick reports) It seems like once I would hit say a value of 500 the game will suddenly jump to that value instead of starting movement at that value. What this looks like in game is a area around the centered stick that you simply can not put your site on. This is on both the X an Y axis.

Minor bug

• Occasionally when binding joystick buttons it will look like all your settings went blank. If you save and return to the binding screen your settings are still there.

Edited by Foust, 15 July 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[Perilthecat]

Tested with a Stormcrow Prime and couldn't get it working before giving up.

With sensitivity sliders pushed all the way down to Zero, and deadzone set anywhere except Max:

• Pitch works fine
  
• Sensitivity seems useable
  
• Torso has severly limited range, only turns a few degrees left or right of centre

With sensitivity sliders on Zero and deadzone set to Max:

• Torso range is restored
  
• Sensitivity is extremely over sensitive
  
• Any movement of the joystick causes the mech to twist/pitch immediately to the stops
  
• I believe the left or right torso twist may have been engaging free look

I haven't tried splitting the deadzones as of yet. It also occurred to me that removing lower arm actuators or engaging armlock might have different effects. Will need to test.

[Kmieciu]

Matthew Craig, on 15 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

The mouse aiming being unusable was a tough one as there is no way to differentiate where the inputs originated from in the code.

I bet there are many players that would use joystick/gamepad support if it could be combined with mouse aiming. Joystick for throttle/turning and mouse for torso / arm twisting.

[JimboFBX]

Kmieciu, on 15 July 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

[/size]
I bet there are many players that would use joystick/gamepad support if it could be combined with mouse aiming. Joystick for throttle/turning and mouse for torso / arm twisting.

Huh? That's exactly what I'm doing. Right hand on the mouse, left hand on the stick, with the keyboard to the left of the joystick for the misc buttons. The difference is that I use the Z-rotation axis for turning the legs instead of the x-axis because it is more responsive.

[Kmieciu]

JimboFBX, on 15 July 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

Huh? That's exactly what I'm doing. Right hand on the mouse, left hand on the stick, with the keyboard to the left of the joystick for the misc buttons. The difference is that I use the Z-rotation axis for turning the legs instead of the x-axis because it is more responsive.

Can you use absolute imputs with that? So that when you let go of the joystick your mech stops?

[MountainCopper]

Quote

• Turning and Throttle controls are now possible when using the Battlegrid
  
  • Any Turning/Throttle controls that have been rebound from the defaults will need to be rebound to allow movement in the Battlegrid screen. This is due to the introduction of a new action map for the Battlegrid and is unavoidable.

I didn't have to rebind my alternate keyboard keys for e.g. 70% and 100% throttle. Why not?
Also, these do not work with the battlegrid open, while WASD work.

EDIT:
Or, while these do work w/o the battlegrid, I HAVE to rebind them to make them work with the battlegrid open?

Edited by GoldenFleece, 16 July 2014 - 03:35 AM.