117 replies to this topic

[Nick Makiaveli]

Fyrerock, on 25 July 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

It just makes them a lot better at aiming with all types of weapons. New people do not need aim bots, just a few simple to use weapon systems other than missiles, that is it. The gauss used to be a great newbie or casual player weapon, it did not take hundreds of hours to become ok with it, unlike most of the other weapon systems. Now the key is to make a weapon system that is easy to use for new and casual players but at the same time it does not give the Elites a weapon that they can make easy kills with it.

Seriously? Dude lasers are just what you want. If you fire and miss....guess what? Drag the beam back on target and you deal some damage instead of none.

As to gauss, use it or don't.

What you are saying is you want a weapon that doesn't need skill to do well with, yet can't be used by the Elite to dominate. That's called stop smoking so much sticky weed.

If you suck at this game, you have 3 choices. Play and get better. Quit. Or, as I did, learn to embrace the suck. I can hit mechs, but I can't hit specific parts. Some yells hit his left torso just means I aim for center mass and hope to get lucky.

[IraqiWalker]

Fyrerock, on 25 July 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

It just makes them a lot better at aiming with all types of weapons. New people do not need aim bots, just a few simple to use weapon systems other than missiles, that is it. The gauss used to be a great newbie or casual player weapon, it did not take hundreds of hours to become ok with it, unlike most of the other weapon systems. Now the key is to make a weapon system that is easy to use for new and casual players but at the same time it does not give the Elites a weapon that they can make easy kills with it.

So ... lasers?

[Soulscour]

I gotta say that as far as twitch shooters, this has gotta be one of the easiest in terms of the skill aspect. Not only do half the mechs walk incredibly slow in comparison to other shooters, many times they are standing still. Add in auto aim weapons and much longer surviveabilty. You just dont see that in other shooters which instead require lightning fast reflexes in many situations and its almost instant kill with every weapon so it is far less forgiving. This is something that millions of people do as the shooting genre is huge.

I'm not trying to knock MWO. Because of the slow pacing and the nature of no respawns, there are more strategic aspects to the game that make it more unique and appealing. What I'm trying to say is that if millions of people are playing games from the shooting genre and mostly at a much faster pace, MWO in comparison is certainly not an elitest game.

Edited by Soulscour, 26 July 2014 - 02:05 AM.

[Appogee]

I'm one of the elite. However, a 240 ping and crappy Host State Rewind manage to contain my eliteness to manageable levels

Edited by Appogee, 26 July 2014 - 02:11 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Soulscour, on 26 July 2014 - 02:00 AM, said:

I gotta say that as far as twitch shooters, this has gotta be one of the easiest in terms of the skill aspect. Not only do half the mechs walk incredibly slow in comparison to other shooters, many times they are standing still. Add in auto aim weapons and much longer surviveabilty. You just dont see that in other shooters which instead require lightning fast reflexes in many situations and its almost instant kill with every weapon so it is far less forgiving. This is something that millions of people do as the shooting genre is huge.

I'm not trying to knock MWO. Because of the slow pacing and the nature of no respawns, there are more strategic aspects to the game that make it more unique and appealing. What I'm trying to say is that if millions of people are playing games from the shooting genre and mostly at a much faster pace, MWO in comparison is certainly not an elitest game.

For the crowd you're talking about, there's Hawken and Titanfall.

[Jon Gotham]

Nik Reaper, on 23 July 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

While I disagree with what the OP desires, I understand the sentiment.

Basicaly when I play this game I have to try hard, otherwise it doesn't end well and I feel that I didn't contribute to the team, and the damage , score and kills reflect this.
Due to this I only play the game for less then 10 hours a week even though I have more free time I would theoretically like to spend in MWO, I can't enjoy it due to the effort I need to put in to play well. I'm not from the PvP crowd and competition was never my thing , but this is the only Mech action around so here we are trying to make enemy players sad and frustrated x) .

But I digress , what the OP wants basically is PVE , even esport level games like LOL have games against bots, and ones with different skill levels against wich you gain reduced rewards, but still some reward. It's the ultimate indulgence, you put little effort , no one is frustrated and you are basically playing the game with a prefered level of difficulty.

So to conclude, we'r sorry getting old , not having time or energy to become good at a game is being rough on you , and that the match maker is just not good enough to keep you in games with only players at you'r skill level and the lack of a relaxing PVE mode , we all suffer from the mentioned but NO! do not ever lower the roof of what devotion and practice at you'r hobby can allow you to do..... just keep the serious players separate from the casual folk with some thing like a ranked games wich give a bt more reward and are competitive with rankings.... and PVE when they get around to it .

I'm kinda in the same boat as you I think. I disagree with the op quite strongly-none of the weapons in this game are hard to use excepting ping/hardware factors. None of them. If someone has decent ping and good enough hardware and is struggling, then this type of game may not be for them. If they also lack the desire to try-then I feel the same applies. stay away form online games vs other players.
I have tried to avoid the competitive scene on this game on purpose for a couple of reasons:
#1 I don't feel I'm good enough to compete on an even footing, and I feel I'm reaching a plateau of skill currently.
#2 I LOATHE the arty/airstrike spamming meta fest tournament games are!

However, that does not mean I don't take pride in how I play and strive to do as well as I can. Yes I may have to try much harder ( game is less fun for me now by a LARGE factor) now we have the group queue forced upon us-keep running into large tryhard premades:( But, I take pleasure in doing better and I strive to play as well as I can. My satisfaction comes from getting that bit better, taking down a "big name" etc.

Taking away skill only serves to devalue what you do. If people in the op's position want such throwaway, valueless experiences-there other things they can do.

Edited by kamiko kross, 26 July 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

To OP:

Do the following:

Get a nice mouse pad. I recommend Steelseries but you can get anything you like.
Get a decent gaming mouse. I recommend logitech G400s.
Make sure you have smooth frame rates > 85 fps. If necessary, lower your graphics settings.
Sit in a comfortable position with arms and wrists relaxed and body centered on your monitor.
Make sure you sit close enough to the monitor to see the details on the enemy mechs but not so close that you only see a small part of your screen.
Raise your monitor/video card brightness and gamma until you comfortably see enemy mechs and your crosshair.

Now, go into a real game (not practice). Look at a component on an enemy mech and try to follow it with your arm reticule while shooting a laser (use a light press on your mouse button, don't mash it down). When you are doing this, simply look at the part you want to shoot and don't try to drive your reticule there consciously. Also, don't use your wrist to aim. Use your entire forearm.

Set acceleration to ZERO.

Now look carefully at where your reticule is:

If your reticule is trailing behind the enemy mech, INCREASE the mouse sensitivity.
If your reticule is moving all over the enemy mech and you are constantly over aiming, LOWER the mouse sensitivity.

Do this until you find the right sensitivity where your reticule will naturally go to a spot you are looking at without you having to do much thinking. You should now be able to comfortably trace the outlines of terrain features with your reticule at a moderate speed without straining or over-concentrating on what you are doing.

This is your approximately optimal mouse sensitivity. Relax and practice shooting at enemy mechs using this sensitivity. Remember to use your forearm to aim (later you can mix in a little wrist motion if you want), and RELAX. Also, don't over focus on either the reticule or the enemy mech. Try to keep both in view. If you are over focusing and getting tunnel vision, blink a couple of times.

Once you relax and have your sensitivity properly dialed in, you should be able to shoot and track people with beam weapons at least well enough to hit some component on them all the time. As you play more, your aim should get better and better.

[Fyrerock]

JigglyMoobs, on 27 July 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

To OP:

Do the following:

Get a nice mouse pad. I recommend Steelseries but you can get anything you like.
Get a decent gaming mouse. I recommend logitech G400s.
Make sure you have smooth frame rates > 85 fps. If necessary, lower your graphics settings.
Sit in a comfortable position with arms and wrists relaxed and body centered on your monitor.
Make sure you sit close enough to the monitor to see the details on the enemy mechs but not so close that you only see a small part of your screen.
Raise your monitor/video card brightness and gamma until you comfortably see enemy mechs and your crosshair.

Now, go into a real game (not practice). Look at a component on an enemy mech and try to follow it with your arm reticule while shooting a laser (use a light press on your mouse button, don't mash it down). When you are doing this, simply look at the part you want to shoot and don't try to drive your reticule there consciously. Also, don't use your wrist to aim. Use your entire forearm.

Set acceleration to ZERO.

Now look carefully at where your reticule is:

If your reticule is trailing behind the enemy mech, INCREASE the mouse sensitivity.
If your reticule is moving all over the enemy mech and you are constantly over aiming, LOWER the mouse sensitivity.

Do this until you find the right sensitivity where your reticule will naturally go to a spot you are looking at without you having to do much thinking. You should now be able to comfortably trace the outlines of terrain features with your reticule at a moderate speed without straining or over-concentrating on what you are doing.

This is your approximately optimal mouse sensitivity. Relax and practice shooting at enemy mechs using this sensitivity. Remember to use your forearm to aim (later you can mix in a little wrist motion if you want), and RELAX. Also, don't over focus on either the reticule or the enemy mech. Try to keep both in view. If you are over focusing and getting tunnel vision, blink a couple of times.

Once you relax and have your sensitivity properly dialed in, you should be able to shoot and track people with beam weapons at least well enough to hit some component on them all the time. As you play more, your aim should get better and better.

Which is why many months ago I purchased a Razer Ouroboros, and an 27 inch monitor which costed me a lot of money. But everything you wrote just proved my point, look at what it takes to become good at using lasers and most of the other weapons in this game, the ability to hold the reticule on target until the weapon has discharged it whole round. Now just think how much hard it is to learn how to become good with lasers against a moving target vs hitting a target like the way the old gauss used to work. You guys are ignoring the facts, that for new players and most casual players they could become ok with the way gauss weapon used to work in a fairly fast interval, but unless they are willing to invest the time and money they will never be as good with other types of weapons.

I do not need advice, a long time ago I worked out what I needed to get better, I am thinking more about everyone else who would either like to play this game, or who are always yelled at by people in the pug for being newbs.

Every since clan mechs came out, you have a lot of jealous people calling people who play clan mechs all types of names, and part of it is true since many of these people including myself have a hard time holding lasers on one spot at close range in a brawl against moving targets.

Lets say you have two groups, while both groups have equal marksmen skills at long and medium range against either stationary or targets moving in a straight line, while one group has vastly superior marksmen skills at brawl range, the ability to hit one spot on an enemy mech over and over again. You can see this all the time when a group wins by a wide margin, and it is not something that the ELO can easily adjust for, because if the fight does not get into brawl range fast enough both groups have a chance to win. But if you are a new player or one that does not have enough time to practise then they will never get good enough with most of the weapon systems in the game to add value to the group at close range against moving targets.

[JigglyMoobs]

Fyrerock, on 28 July 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Every since clan mechs came out, you have a lot of jealous people calling people who play clan mechs all types of names, and part of it is true since many of these people including myself have a hard time holding lasers on one spot at close range in a brawl against moving targets.

Lets say you have two groups, while both groups have equal marksmen skills at long and medium range against either stationary or targets moving in a straight line, while one group has vastly superior marksmen skills at brawl range, the ability to hit one spot on an enemy mech over and over again. You can see this all the time when a group wins by a wide margin, and it is not something that the ELO can easily adjust for, because if the fight does not get into brawl range fast enough both groups have a chance to win. But if you are a new player or one that does not have enough time to practise then they will never get good enough with most of the weapon systems in the game to add value to the group at close range against moving targets.

And what you are describing right there is what keeps many people playing this game: room for one's skills to grow, depth to discover more and more layers of gameplay tactics and strategy.

If you want to play a game that is forever in easy mode, where you can just stand in one place and shoot stationary enemies, this is not the one for you.

If you want a game where there is always room to grow and get better, where no matter how good you are there are more things to discover and improve, this is the game for you.

No game can be all things to all people. Plenty of games out there that give no challenge to the player. This is not one of them and many of us like that enough to pay the money and put in the time.

[IraqiWalker]

Fyrerock, on 28 July 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Which is why many months ago I purchased a Razer Ouroboros, and an 27 inch monitor which costed me a lot of money. But everything you wrote just proved my point, look at what it takes to become good at using lasers and most of the other weapons in this game, the ability to hold the reticule on target until the weapon has discharged it whole round. Now just think how much hard it is to learn how to become good with lasers against a moving target vs hitting a target like the way the old gauss used to work. You guys are ignoring the facts, that for new players and most casual players they could become ok with the way gauss weapon used to work in a fairly fast interval, but unless they are willing to invest the time and money they will never be as good with other types of weapons.

I do not need advice, a long time ago I worked out what I needed to get better, I am thinking more about everyone else who would either like to play this game, or who are always yelled at by people in the pug for being newbs.

Every since clan mechs came out, you have a lot of jealous people calling people who play clan mechs all types of names, and part of it is true since many of these people including myself have a hard time holding lasers on one spot at close range in a brawl against moving targets.

Lets say you have two groups, while both groups have equal marksmen skills at long and medium range against either stationary or targets moving in a straight line, while one group has vastly superior marksmen skills at brawl range, the ability to hit one spot on an enemy mech over and over again. You can see this all the time when a group wins by a wide margin, and it is not something that the ELO can easily adjust for, because if the fight does not get into brawl range fast enough both groups have a chance to win. But if you are a new player or one that does not have enough time to practise then they will never get good enough with most of the weapon systems in the game to add value to the group at close range against moving targets.

I'm sorry, but I play on a laptop that's so bad it runs this game on the absolute lowest graphics settings and still get no more than 20 FPS on a good day. the monitor is 15 inches wide, and I'm using a simple gaming mouse. Yet somehow I have no problem popping people's side torsos and specific limbs with this rig.

Yes, equipment makes it easier, however, you don't need any of that to be "good".

[Kjudoon]

IW... you still out perform me. LOL My FPS as long as things aren't to crazy is 12-15. If I get too close, 4-10fps.

[Dracol]

Anytime someone brings up "targeting computer to do the aiming" and removing the aiming aspect of the game, the only thing I can think of is World of Warcraft. You select your target, spam your weapons as they come back online, and the computer figures if you hit and if so how well you hit..... not my game style of choice.

[Sug]

Make it happen mods.

[Denolven]

Nick Makiaveli, on 25 July 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

What you are saying is you want a weapon that doesn't need skill to do well with, yet can't be used by the Elite to dominate. That's called stop smoking so much sticky weed.

Balancing for skill:

[AlmightyAeng]

Fyrerock, on 23 July 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Being able to hit a moving object with a single fast projectile is something that most people can learn to do ok, without needing endless amounts of practise. But hitting and holding target on a moving object with a stream of energy or projectiles is another story in itself, it is not something that the majority of part time players will ever become good at.

LOL...you lost me here, didn't even bother reading further.

Hitting someone with a single projectile, i.e., being able to judge lead time, takes more brainpower than putting a LASER POINTER on a target. Lasers are incredibly simple to use...only LRM's take less effort to get 'on target.'

Note: I said "to get on target" not "to be effective with." This is not a ninja-LRM put-down or whinefest.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 29 July 2014 - 05:47 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Soulscour, on 26 July 2014 - 02:00 AM, said:

I gotta say that as far as twitch shooters, this has gotta be one of the easiest in terms of the skill aspect. Not only do half the mechs walk incredibly slow in comparison to other shooters, many times they are standing still. Add in auto aim weapons and much longer surviveabilty. You just dont see that in other shooters which instead require lightning fast reflexes in many situations and its almost instant kill with every weapon so it is far less forgiving. This is something that millions of people do as the shooting genre is huge.

I'm not trying to knock MWO. Because of the slow pacing and the nature of no respawns, there are more strategic aspects to the game that make it more unique and appealing. What I'm trying to say is that if millions of people are playing games from the shooting genre and mostly at a much faster pace, MWO in comparison is certainly not an elitest game.

Well there's a lot more resource management required than in most shooters, both in the mechlab and in a match, and resource mismanagement is very likely to kill you one way or another so in that sense there's a fair bit of skill involved, but this game is indeed very slow paced compared to some of the games I've played in the past.
I've played games where peak performance caused me to burn out in about an hour, that's never gonna happen with MWO, at worst I'll get bored and go do something else for a while.

[Fyrerock]

Ghost Badger, on 29 July 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

LOL...you lost me here, didn't even bother reading further.

Hitting someone with a single projectile, i.e., being able to judge lead time, takes more brainpower than putting a LASER POINTER on a target. Lasers are incredibly simple to use...only LRM's take less effort to get 'on target.'

Note: I said "to get on target" not "to be effective with." This is not a ninja-LRM put-down or whinefest.

Then I take it you do not play this game to often, because it used to be easy for me to kill a light mech running in circles around me with a gauss, vs trying to kill them with lasers. The only time lasers are easy is at long range or when the target is not moving.

[IraqiWalker]

Fyrerock, on 29 July 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Then I take it you do not play this game to often, because it used to be easy for me to kill a light mech running in circles around me with a gauss, vs trying to kill them with lasers. The only time lasers are easy is at long range or when the target is not moving.

Yeah, THAT was a huge part of the problem with how broken Gauss was. It was super powerful for it's weight, tonnage, and role.

As for lasers being not easy in close range, I would recommend playing a mech that can move more than 60 Kph. Those usually have a good enough torso twist to keep up with our gimped lights.