41 replies to this topic

[Alreech]

Lexx, on 13 August 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

But there is one thing you have right; Microsoft does still own the rights to all Mechwarrior video games right now and they don't seem willing to sell them to anyone. IGP/PGI are just leasing them from Microsoft and they could pull the plug on this game at any time if they chose to. That's a pretty scary thought!

It's not realy scary. Even if PGI fails the Mechwarrior IP wouldn't disapear in oblivion.

Microsoft would give the licence to the next Company that is willing to pay for it, and if no one want's it Microsoft would probably tolerate Fan Projects like they did it with Mekteks Mechwarrior 4 Support or Wandering Samurais Mechwarrior Living Legends.

[CaptainBoom]

MWO - references updated.

[The Gruntmaster 6000]

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I was playing Battletech, the Crescent Hawk's Inception on my Apple 2 back in 1988, so it's even older than you think it is. The game was also available for DOS. It might not have had Mechwarrior in the title, but it was definitely a Mechwarrior game.

Crescent Hawks Inception was 1986. That was the first MW game. Then was MechWarrior 1989 (for Dos).
1.Crescent Hawks Inception (1986)
2.MechWarrior (1989)
3.Crescent Hawks Revenge (1991)
4.MechWarrior SNES (1993)
5.MechWarrior 2 and BattleTech 3050 SNES (1994)
6.MechWarrior 2 GBL (1995)
7.MechWarrior 2 Mercs (1996)
8.MechCommander (1997)
9.MechWarrior 3(1998)
10.MechWarrior 3 Pirate's Moon (1999)
11.MechWarrior 4 Vengeance (Y2K)
12.MechCommander 2 and MW4 Black Knight (2001)
13.MechWarrior 4 Mercs (2002)
14.MechAssault:Lone Wolf (2005)
15.MechAssault 2 (2007)
16.MechAssault: Phantom War (2008)
17.MechWarrior:LL (2009)
18.MechWarrior Online (2011)
19.MechWarrior Tactics and Tactical Command (2012)

MW5 (which was officially just named MW) was never put past Alpha. There was some myth about MW:Prime which was supposed to be MW5 but only one video exists and nothing (literally) has been officially released by Microsoft about the abandoned project. A game called BattleTech Grey Death Legion was supposed to be released for Sega but the game was cancelled but still had a fair amount of the actual game complete which became Freeware briefly with ports.

Edit- At one point I owned every MW/BT video game but they got sold when I moved out . Also why I had to relearn everything leading up to this game cause its been so long.

Edited by The Advisor, 13 August 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[Lexx]

The Advisor, on 13 August 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Crescent Hawks Inception was 1986. That was the first MW game. Then was MechWarrior 1989 (for Dos).
1.Crescent Hawks Revenge (1986)
2.MechWarrior (1989)
3.Crescent Hawks Revenge (1991)
4.MechWarrior SNES (1993)
5.MechWarrior 2 and BattleTech 3050 SNES (1994)
6.MechWarrior 2 GBL (1995)
7.MechWarrior 2 Mercs (1996)
8.MechCommander (1997)
9.MechWarrior 3(1998)
10.MechWarrior 3 Pirate's Moon (1999)
11.MechWarrior 4 Vengeance (Y2K)
12.MechCommander 2 and MW4 Black Knight (2001)
13.MechWarrior 4 Mercs (2002)
14.MechAssault:Lone Wolf (2005)
15.MechAssault 2 (2007)
16.MechAssault: Phantom War (2008)
17.MechWarrior:LL (2009)
18.MechWarrior Online (2011)
19.MechWarrior Tactics and Tactical Command (2012)

MW5 (which was officially just named MW) was never put past Alpha. There was some myth about MW:Prime which was supposed to be MW5 but only one video exists and nothing (literally) has been officially released by Microsoft about the abandoned project. A game called BattleTech Grey Death Legion was supposed to be released for Sega but the game was cancelled but still had a fair amount of the actual game complete which became Freeware briefly with ports.

Edit- At one point I owned every MW/BT video game but they got sold when I moved out . Also why I had to relearn everything leading up to this game cause its been so long.

You should change that second line, you have Crescent Hawk's Revenge (the sequel) on there as the first game in 1986, when it should be Crescent Hawk's Inception. Then you list it again correctly in 1991.

I said I was playing it in 1988, not that it came out in 1988. I actually bought the game for $5 from the bargain bin at an Electronics Boutique in the mall because they were selling off all their Apple computer games. It was thanks to that game that I learned about Battletech and Mechwarrior. I was so interested in the idea that I found TRO 3025 in the comic books store and got into the tabletop game from there.

I've owned pretty much every Mech game also, except Mechassault. I hated what Microsoft did with that game and I refused to play it. Mechwarrior 4 had been out for a good while and I was still playing Mechwarrior 3 online with my friends because we didn't really like Microsoft being in control of that game either.

My favorite Mechwarrior game of all time, and the game I have the most fond memories of, is Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries.

Edited by Lexx, 13 August 2014 - 07:34 PM.

[The Gruntmaster 6000]

Woops thanks.

Edit- I first grew up on MW3 piloting nothing but Timber Wolf. Then MW4 came out and I sticked with that for years. It actually grows on you the longer you play, because the story and characters and interaction is much more conveyable in it than in previous titles.

Edited by The Advisor, 13 August 2014 - 07:55 PM.

[Pht]

Captain Boom, on 11 August 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

I've been reading about the limitations on what PGI is legally able to do, and not do. It makes me a little ill, that as a Mechwarrior enthusiast, that my gaming experience is limited to what private corporate agendas restrict and enforce, just to better their own business models. Which means profits.

Profits aren't good or evil. The way they are gotten and used by people can be either good or evil. Ditto with businesses.

Private ownership is a good thing.

Immoral use of privately owned things is evil.

let's not get confused on what's actually messed up and what's not.

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Mechwarrior originally debuted on Nintendo. Am I right?

No.

http://www.sarna.net...9_Video_Game%29

The first of the MW series of video games was a computer game from 1989.

The very first video game derivative of the battletech IP was the crescent hawk's inception in 1988

http://www.sarna.net...ks%27_Inception

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It was only when Mechwarrior 2 came onto windows 95, that Windows had a taste of.... THE COMMUNITY... that is.... US. It was because of us, and our enthusiasm that prompted Microsoft to see how they could stab our wallets as a new business model, and now as the latest garbage sinks, Mechwarrior becomes on last business vestiges to maintain any form of incentive to buy the garbage, passed off as Windows 8.

If you think what MS does is immoral, did you/do you spend your money on their product? If you want to stop someone from doing something that requires money ... WHY give them money?

If you did buy MS's product, don't tell me they forced you - they didn't. If it's only that youdon't like the other choices you had, and thus you spent the money.

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When all that is necessary, is to let Mechwarrior go open source, owned by the community. Like how the internet is owned by the population, and not microsoft, as they repugnantly attempted to claim.

The internet is not owned by the community.

Bits and pieces of it are owned by individuals and busninesses.

When has MS ... EVER ... claimed to own the internet? They've done some stupid and some silly things, but I've never seen them claim to own the internet.

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Why can't I choose my OS experience, as well as my Mechwarrior experience?

You and others gave your money to MS. That's why. Even the theives who steal MS drive MS's products, because they use the stuff they've stolen and buy stuff to use on it.

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Sorry for the rant. I work in a datacenter, and fix windows machines. (My employer can't afford to upgrade to linux, because Microsoft errors keep costing him so much downtime). This is why I own nothing but Mac and linux at home. And you know what? LIFE IS GOOD! although... it would be great if everyone else who knows better (like me) .... could also have the choice, to throw money at PGI and play Mechwarrior 5. That would be perfect. Wouldn't it?

How can they not afford linux when linux is open source? Can they not afford to get people who know how to use and maintain it? Do they not have the hardware available to copy the data into a linux back end and switch to the linux end once it's up and working?

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Mechwarrior communitty to own their own gaming experience! - even if that means crowd funding to eliminate artificial restrictions. As per patent troll agenda.

That's it. That's really all I wanted to say.

If you really want to get the e-game rights for fasa IPs out of MS ... find a way to build the finances to make them an offer they'd be idiots to refuse.

Or at least don't help them profit from the IP rights.

Edited by Pht, 14 August 2014 - 11:32 AM.

[The Gruntmaster 6000]

Yeah PHT is right. You bums who hated the game and spent money on it are at just as much fault as us, and also what horrible things did MS do. You do know that FASA studios still developed the MW4 games right? You do know that MechAssault was developed by Day 1 Studios not MS? Microsoft did nothing wrong with the product. All they did was publish it. MechWarrior 3 was published by MS. MechCommander 2 was also a courtesy of MS. Seriously you guys are blaming MS for ruining the IP when in fact.... They did nothing wrong. Maybe the reason they let the IP sit for so long was because you people kept yelling at them day in and day out over those games.

Also you do know the reason that you can't choose your OS is because this game is programmed in C++ which is a Windows Language so the game still has to be ported which takes forever to do.

[Pht]

The Advisor, on 14 August 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

Yeah PHT is right. You bums who hated the game and spent money on it are at just as much fault as us, and also what horrible things did MS do. You do know that FASA studios still developed the MW4 games right? You do know that MechAssault was developed by Day 1 Studios not MS? Microsoft did nothing wrong with the product. All they did was publish it. MechWarrior 3 was published by MS. MechCommander 2 was also a courtesy of MS. Seriously you guys are blaming MS for ruining the IP when in fact.... They did nothing wrong. Maybe the reason they let the IP sit for so long was because you people kept yelling at them day in and day out over those games.

Eh ... let's not go overboard. MS has not been terribly good for the MW video game genre, even if they were responsible for several of the releases, directly or indirectly.

As far as concerns MW4, MS was very bad about patch support - for instance, the heatbug was only fixed after one of the game devs was abused horridly by people using that bug ... MS also canned the fifth attempt at making a Mechwarrior game (NOT MWO - it was named mechwarrior prime) - than they apparently took the work that was done for that let it be re-used for the insulting mechassault series, and PGI has had to "go it nearly alone" until IGP showed up because MS wouldn't allow PGI to make a playstation port for MWO, thus killing any chances of any of the big publishing houses backing MWO.

They did allow the mechcommander 1 source and game to go public and free; while Mektek was still doing mechwarrior stuff MS did allow MT to do a free, DRM-less release of MW4.

[990Dreams]

Topps Trading Cards owns the rights to BT. Microsoft owns the intellectual property rights to first-person MechWarrior games (maybe third person too).

If you can buy those from Microsoft and Topps, then all you have to do is re-license them under an open source license (or no licence at all). Then anyone can use it (because at that point you've essentially destroyed the chances of any one person owning the BT/MechWarrior franchise).

Edited by DavidHurricane, 14 August 2014 - 12:08 PM.

[The Gruntmaster 6000]

Quote

Eh ... let's not go overboard. MS has not been terribly good for the MW video game genre, even if they were responsible for several of the releases, directly or indirectly.

It wasn't bad though. Granted support was bad (understatement), but the games themselves were massively popular (MW4-Mercs being the fastest selling Simulator game at its release). They did promote the series well. MechAssault was bad but take into consideration they were porting the game to xbox for the first time and the first game holds a 9.2/10 ranking on IGN (so it was at some point popular). I think MechAssault 1 was good but it should have ended there. MechAssault 2 was the stain on the series. I hated that one. But remember they owned the license while MW:LL was out and let it stay (that could have been squashed big time), and not only was MC1 and MW4 out for free so was MC2 with its source code. I think the biggest thing they did wrong was letting it sit and do nothing. They let the name die and with that they let the series fall from glory allowing games like Titanfall and Hawken to come up and take the spotlight over MW.

[Pht]

DavidHurricane, on 14 August 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Topps Trading Cards owns the rights to BT. Microsoft owns the intellectual property rights to first-person MechWarrior games (maybe third person too).

If you can buy those from Microsoft and Topps, then all you have to do is re-license them under an open source license (or no licence at all). Then anyone can use it (because at that point you've essentially destroyed the chances of any one person owning the BT/MechWarrior franchise).

... and if nobody can profit from it than there's no value to be derived from the property by anyone. Stop and think about that for a moment.

[CyclonerM]

Pht, on 16 August 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

... and if nobody can profit from it than there's no value to be derived from the property by anyone. Stop and think about that for a moment.

Seems that there is a number of people, from those who make BT art (drawings, 3D..) to the creators of mods like MW:LL, who are willing to make stuff for passion rather than a living. Besides, if a poorer software house (made by fans) like Wandering Samurai wants to create a game that they might sell, they would be able to do it without having to buy the license.

I am not quite an economist but maybe there would be a meaning for doing this, quiaff?

[Pht]

CyclonerM, on 16 August 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

Seems that there is a number of people, from those who make BT art (drawings, 3D..) to the creators of mods like MW:LL, who are willing to make stuff for passion rather than a living. Besides, if a poorer software house (made by fans) like Wandering Samurai wants to create a game that they might sell, they would be able to do it without having to buy the license.

I am not quite an economist but maybe there would be a meaning for doing this, quiaff?

If at all, only for the video games. NOT for the bt ip, which is being well supported creatively.

Besides which, the amount of money it would take to get MS off of their IP rights for the fasa properties ... or just the BT e-properties they have ... nobody's likely to come up with that kind of cash soon.

Methinks if something like this was to be properly pursued, it'd be more realistic to do an open-source single player/ online co-op implementation of mechwarrior, as a totally non-profit open-source project. IMO, that would have a far better chance of actually getting done. Leave the persistant-online-no single player format alone because PGI is doing that format. Because it's not-for-profit of any kind, make sure to use all of the macross based unseens, just for kicks.

Edited by Pht, 16 August 2014 - 06:34 AM.

[990Dreams]

Pht, on 16 August 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

... and if nobody can profit from it than there's no value to be derived from the property by anyone. Stop and think about that for a moment.

Yeah I know. But would you rather have PGI (or anyone who wants to make a BT game) limited and earn money, or earn no money and let people be creative?

[Alreech]

DavidHurricane, on 16 August 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Yeah I know. But would you rather have PGI (or anyone who wants to make a BT game) limited and earn money, or earn no money and let people be creative?

Yeah, it would awesome if everybody could use the Battletech IP and could add new, creative things to it.

For example someone could make a Mechwarrior Game with Alien Races, and Super High Tech like Antigravitation, Energy Shields and Star Trek like Warpdrives & Transporters.

[990Dreams]

Alreech, on 16 August 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Yeah, it would awesome if everybody could use the Battletech IP and could add new, creative things to it.

For example someone could make a Mechwarrior Game with Alien Races, and Super High Tech like Antigravitation, Energy Shields and Star Trek like Warpdrives & Transporters.

Sure. Whatever. I'm more so interested in having a regulated free-content kinda thing. As in I have to say ok, but I won't charge you for it (or take bribes).

That way people can be creative, but the community doesn't let them go too far overboard.

[Pht]

DavidHurricane, on 16 August 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Yeah I know. But would you rather have PGI (or anyone who wants to make a BT game) limited and earn money, or earn no money and let people be creative?

Would you rather people be able to put food on the table because they made a mechwarrior game, or people have to spend what precious little time they have putting effort into something they, by definition, couldn't profit from? Getting the IP away from MS and than restricting under a no-profit and open-source model means nobody could profit from it. At least right now it can go both ways, even if the IP *is* stuck with a less than stellar owner.

Personally, I'd prefer to see CGL owning the IP rights that MS has.




And, again, the elephant in the room ... WHO or what group of who's has enough of any expendible valuable resource to get the IP away from MS?

Edited by Pht, 17 August 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[The Gruntmaster 6000]

Donald Trump^^

[990Dreams]

I personally don't care at this time, since I don't have the coding skills or writing skills to get involved in BT canon.

But there are people who have the ability to make BT a revolutionary, big name again. They have good ideas, good stories, and might even have a team to develop. Then they get stumped by MS and Topps, who don't really care about BT and MW.

If you can't have someone who cares owning it, you may as well have no owner. And let's be honest, if any one person on this site owned BT, they'd abuse that power (maybe not initially, but at some point they'd do something everyone but them doesn't like).

Edited by DavidHurricane, 21 August 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[The Gruntmaster 6000]

David is right. Power corrupts everyone.

And David changed his allegiance to Lone Wolves instead of FRL.