54 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

The IS XL mechs are darn fragile. Now I know they are made to be vulnerable in order to squeeze out more tonnage but when I was pummeling IS XL and Clan XL mechs with my Lurms, the durability difference was like between night and day. One volley, cripples the Ember. Two volleys, blows the Fastback. Three volleys, down goes the Jager. Four volleys, bye bye Buttmaster. They tried running, they tried torso twisting, but it doesn't help their exposed XL when my missiles are spread all over their faces.
I felt really bad for any HBK pilots who played during the weekends cause they were bursting like piñata--making a kill for me so damn easy. A Nova on the other hand, lives twice as long under my reticule.

To be clear, I used a LRM boat for this tourney. This is the 3rd time I am entering the endurance tourney. First and second time I used HGN-733 with Quad ALRM15s, but this time I took the STK-3H for a spin since the JJs are nerfed to the point that it is really not worth the 2 ton weight.
The 3H build is pretty orthodox ALRM50 (2x20+2x5) + 3 ML + TAG build. The difference is that the ALRM20s are spread enough to hit all 3 torsi simultaneously and it really messes up IS XL mechs. Once a UAV pops-up, I actively search for an IS XL mech and just laugh and get multiple component destruction on top of a kill.

I do not know if PGI will address the gap, but the tourney showed me just how fragile IS XL mechs are when compared with the recent newcomers, without appreciable firepower and/or mobility difference. Except IS Lights, but that's another story.


On the other hand, I am definitely doing better than ever before. Broke the 2100 score barrier!
*flexes muscles*



Thank you baby!

Edited by El Bandito, 22 August 2014 - 09:57 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

It's not so much that IS XLs are fragile, but that clan XLs have no weaknesses.

[Ultimax]

That's the price they pay for customizability.

I'd be OK with IS mechs getting the option for a clan type XL in a special variant chassis, but only for their stock engine size and no ability to remove it.

Also stock DHS in the engine would also not be addable or removable.

[Wrenchfarm]

B-b-but, it's balanced because Clan lasers have long burn times.

Or something.

[Alistair Winter]

Interesting that you used a Highlander LRM-boat.

How much time did you invest, approximately?

[BoomDog]

I switched to standard about a month ago. When you add in the torso twisting to spread laser damage, your side torsos are gone in no time at all.

I mentioned in a post that IS needs to give up on XL... that we're dying much faster, but, of course, most didn't listen.

[Jacob Side]

Clans need a penalty for losing a side torso. Be it a heat, torso twist speed, or overall speed penalty, they need to take some hit for losing it

[nehebkau]

I've said it many times in other posts, the Clan advantage is their XL engines (not weapons)-- light and loosing a side doesn't kill you.

What learned from this tournament was that people will completely change their play style and mechs to maximize their points during the tournament as opposed to just playing how they always do. Has to be a better scoring formula than what they used, perhaps one that takes into account accuracy.

Edited by nehebkau, 19 August 2014 - 05:30 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

BoomDog, on 19 August 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

I switched to standard about a month ago. When you add in the torso twisting to spread laser damage, your side torsos are gone in no time at all.

I mentioned in a post that IS needs to give up on XL... that we're dying much faster, but, of course, most didn't listen.

Give up XL and you're at even more of a firepower disadvantage. Can't win a brawl when you're packing a quarter of the guns/heatsinks as your opponent.

You can either take an XL and have enough firepower to maybe, possibly, if the stars and moons align, pick apart a Clan mech at a distance if you play super careful and are lucky enough to not be OHKOed in the ST. Or you can pack a STD and toss pebbles at Clan mechs and live slightly longer to watch them run right over you.

Balance is flat out broken and no amount of playing with IS build philosophy is going to magically make it better.

[Asmosis]

clan XL's are basically regular engines as far as engagements go.

If you destroy both side torsos before CT on a clan, he dies. If you destroy both side torsos on an IS mech that doesn't have XL, you can safely ignore him and move onto the next target and come back later to finish him off.

[poopenshire]

Wrenchfarm, on 19 August 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

Give up XL and you're at even more of a firepower disadvantage. Can't win a brawl when you're packing a quarter of the guns/heatsinks as your opponent.

You can either take an XL and have enough firepower to maybe, possibly, if the stars and moons align, pick apart a Clan mech at a distance if you play super careful and are lucky enough to not be OHKOed in the ST. Or you can pack a STD and toss pebbles at Clan mechs and live slightly longer to watch them run right over you.

Balance is flat out broken and no amount of playing with IS build philosophy is going to magically make it better.

I am confused, so your saying Technologically and Militarily superior fighting machines are supposed to act the same and perform the same as inferior models? So that WW1 Bi-plane should be on par with a F-18? The Clans were never meant to be balanced against the IS. PGI is simply toning them down a bit. maybe when Stars vs Lances comes into effect we will see something different, but really to say IS and Clan mechs should be balanced, well your just barking up the wrong tree.

[Zolaz]

poopenshire, on 19 August 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

I am confused, so your saying Technologically and Militarily superior fighting machines are supposed to act the same and perform the same as inferior models? So that WW1 Bi-plane should be on par with a F-18? The Clans were never meant to be balanced against the IS. PGI is simply toning them down a bit. maybe when Stars vs Lances comes into effect we will see something different, but really to say IS and Clan mechs should be balanced, well your just barking up the wrong tree.

I understand that you are confused. Welcome to MWO, where the Devs want IS and Clam mechs to be different but equal. I just blew your mind, didnt I?

[poopenshire]

Zolaz, on 19 August 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

I understand that you are confused. Welcome to MWO, where the Devs want IS and Clam mechs to be different but equal. I just blew your mind, didnt I?

No the stupidity of player base blows my mind that 25 years plus of what the clans are, were, and going to be still has not set in yet.

The dev's stupidity, well I get that already. No one needs to prove that to me. Just look at the game and its issues.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 19 August 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

Interesting that you used a Highlander LRM-boat. How much time did you invest, approximately?

Yeah, back when JJs were actually jump jets, Lurmtarting with the 733 was very effective way of delivering damage without taking too much fire in return. It was hard to earn a kill in the Highlander tourney though. The meta Highlanders were simply murder machines back then. Still remember the old 732 with Triple PPC + Gauss.

Each tourney I invested approximately... ...10 hours give or take. I usually earn about 5 million per tourney--last one I used Strikes liberally though. Anyway, earned enough money to buy the C-Bill Summoner when it comes out so it's a win win.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 August 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

poopenshire, on 19 August 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

I am confused, so your saying Technologically and Militarily superior fighting machines are supposed to act the same and perform the same as inferior models? So that WW1 Bi-plane should be on par with a F-18? The Clans were never meant to be balanced against the IS. PGI is simply toning them down a bit. maybe when Stars vs Lances comes into effect we will see something different, but really to say IS and Clan mechs should be balanced, well your just barking up the wrong tree.

Want to write a book where Clan mechs are fantastically more advanced than IS mechs? Go right ahead.

Want to make a multiplayer game that claims to be fair and not P2W? Don't make Clan mechs easily worth twice their weight then hide them behind a steep pay-gate.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Clan XLs need to have a movement and speed penalty when a side torso is destroyed. Part of the engine is missing, it should affect the performance of the mech.

As for IS mechs ditching XL all together, Thats fine in an Assault (preferable) and can work in a Heavy. It becomes a problem with Mediums (although do-able depending on chassis), and a standard engine is a death trap in Lights.

Depends on the application.

In any case, the clan XL is too durable with no side affects to destroyed parts. It needs performance degradation upon the destruction of a side torso.

[CygnusX7]

Sounds to me like you were killing a lot of players leaving themselves exposed to LRM's.
Not a reason to buff IS or nerf clans. People need to play the mechs for their strengths AND weaknesses.

Edited by CygnusX7, 19 August 2014 - 06:28 AM.

[poopenshire]

Wrenchfarm, on 19 August 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Want to write a book where Clan mechs are fantastically more advanced than IS mechs? Go right ahead.

Want to make a multiplayer game that claims to be fair and not P2W? Don't make Clan mechs easily worth twice their weight then hide them behind a steep pay-gate.

I think the 40 or so books already written are enough. I cannot help it if the general MWO population cannot read (most are available in 6+ languages too).

I would rather write book about the butt whine in the forums of how people have to be fair and equal on all things. Its more fun and so great to see butt whine message. Oh the big bad LRM hurt me, or, the nasty PPC took off my armor. Hurry someone Nerf it.

The butt whine is so bad here might as well just remove all weapons from all mechs and put bumper cushions on the mechs so they take no damage and we can race around the maps counter-clockwise and the first team to cry like babies wins.

[MeiSooHaityu]

poopenshire, on 19 August 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

I think the 40 or so books already written are enough. I cannot help it if the general MWO population cannot read (most are available in 6+ languages too).

I would rather write book about the butt whine in the forums of how people have to be fair and equal on all things. Its more fun and so great to see butt whine message. Oh the big bad LRM hurt me, or, the nasty PPC took off my armor. Hurry someone Nerf it.

The butt whine is so bad here might as well just remove all weapons from all mechs and put bumper cushions on the mechs so they take no damage and we can race around the maps counter-clockwise and the first team to cry like babies wins.

Just a friendly word of advice (take it or leave it).

If you want to try and voice an opinion and have people listen and consider it, don't blatantly insult them and their intelligence. You may be frustrated, but viciously insulting the community makes you seem no better than the people you are arguing about. Now, no one can take your ideas seriously (no matter how valid they may be).

[El Bandito]

CygnusX7, on 19 August 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Sounds to me like you were killing a lot of players leaving themselves exposed to LRM's. Not a reason to buff IS or nerf clans. People need to play the mechs for their strengths AND weaknesses.

Actually, in this weekend the skill ceiling was noticeably higher than before. I have played with/against a lot of leaderboard players, ECM was everywhere, Radar Derp was everywhere, and people torso twisted a lot. I had to use my own TAG far more than usual to get reliable hit, yet my ALRM20 hit % went down anyway. Too bad IS XL mechs get swatted down by LRM20s easily even when twisting as much as they could.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 August 2014 - 07:01 AM.