The Shadowhawk is the greatest value, as you can do std engines or safely run XL engines in it. Safe enough, anyways. It can jump, it can lrm, it can snipe, it can brawl, it can hunt lights, it slices, it dices, etc. It has extremely high-mounted ballistics, and one of the variants has very high-mounted energy weapons for ppc/er-large sniping.
Please don't listen to people who try to talk you into a hunchback or centurion, as both mechs lack the traits you're looking for, or are simply outclassed by other available mediums in the roles you're looking to perform.
Buy the hunchback, and enjoy spending many matches missing half your mech with that bullet magnet torso. Also, it's best as a brawler, not long range sniping or lrming, making it pointless for you.
Buy the centurion and if you put anything in the gun arm prepare to lose it pretty quickly. Needs an XL engine to mount an effective number of LRMs. Once again, works best as a brawler with a standard engine.
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54 replies to this topic
#42
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:27 AM
Based on what I know and favoring Mediums myself.
10 IS Mechs, 2 Clan in this weight class.
1 - With 1 LRM variant minimum, you rule out the following:
Cicada - no LRM variant possible plus they are like a hybrid of Mediums and Lights.
Blackjack - favors those who like Energy and Ballistic.
Nova - see Blackjack.
8 IS, 1 Clan left.
2 - Wanting at least one sniper, either PPCs for Energy or Light Autocannon for Ballistic. While jump sniping has advantages, so does high mounted weapons that allow you to peek over ridges to fire while exposing less of yourself making you a hard target to hit. The current Shadow Hawk trial Mech does this with 2 AC5s in the high Left Torso spot. This will affect what I do here in filtering out Mediums.
Vindicator - You could design a jump sniper but I never see Vinds used this way.
Centurion - no jump or high mounted spot for sniping weapons.
Trebuchet - unless the 7K torso weapons are high mounted (not sure), it is a no go. You could design a jump sniper off 3 of them but I never see Trebs used this way.
Griffin - You could design a jump sniper but I never see Griffs used this way.
Kintaro - no sniping possible unless you expose yourself.
Wolverine - You could design a jump sniper but I never see Wolvies used this way.
Scarecrow, er, um, Stormcrow - not available yet and with no jump, it depends on where the torso weapons are mounted for ridge sniping. Never do I see Crows used for sniping.
By now the list is filtered down to 2.
Hunchback - Of these, 2 qualify for LRM use, 4J and 4SP. 4 can be ridge snipers using high mounted shoulder spots with no jump, 4G, 4H, 4P and GI. The GI can actually be a hybrid of LRM and sniping.
Shadow Hawk - All Hawks can jump snipe and ridge snipe with high mounted shoulder spots for Light Ballistics, Energy on the 2K. All but the 2D and 5M can LRM boat with just 2LRM10s and the right supporting weapons & equipment.
Have you tried the trial Hawk? As mentioned, it is designed partly for sniping through the AC5s and has jump. Only difference between Hawks and Hunchbacks is jump, Hunchies may not have jump but then that gives them some more room and tonnage to use in design and even engine speed, Hunchie variants also use more Energy weapons while Hawks have more Missile, finally Hunchie variants look role designated while Hawks look more flexible in what you can make out of them.
10 IS Mechs, 2 Clan in this weight class.
1 - With 1 LRM variant minimum, you rule out the following:
Cicada - no LRM variant possible plus they are like a hybrid of Mediums and Lights.
Blackjack - favors those who like Energy and Ballistic.
Nova - see Blackjack.
8 IS, 1 Clan left.
2 - Wanting at least one sniper, either PPCs for Energy or Light Autocannon for Ballistic. While jump sniping has advantages, so does high mounted weapons that allow you to peek over ridges to fire while exposing less of yourself making you a hard target to hit. The current Shadow Hawk trial Mech does this with 2 AC5s in the high Left Torso spot. This will affect what I do here in filtering out Mediums.
Vindicator - You could design a jump sniper but I never see Vinds used this way.
Centurion - no jump or high mounted spot for sniping weapons.
Trebuchet - unless the 7K torso weapons are high mounted (not sure), it is a no go. You could design a jump sniper off 3 of them but I never see Trebs used this way.
Griffin - You could design a jump sniper but I never see Griffs used this way.
Kintaro - no sniping possible unless you expose yourself.
Wolverine - You could design a jump sniper but I never see Wolvies used this way.
Scarecrow, er, um, Stormcrow - not available yet and with no jump, it depends on where the torso weapons are mounted for ridge sniping. Never do I see Crows used for sniping.
By now the list is filtered down to 2.
Hunchback - Of these, 2 qualify for LRM use, 4J and 4SP. 4 can be ridge snipers using high mounted shoulder spots with no jump, 4G, 4H, 4P and GI. The GI can actually be a hybrid of LRM and sniping.
Shadow Hawk - All Hawks can jump snipe and ridge snipe with high mounted shoulder spots for Light Ballistics, Energy on the 2K. All but the 2D and 5M can LRM boat with just 2LRM10s and the right supporting weapons & equipment.
Have you tried the trial Hawk? As mentioned, it is designed partly for sniping through the AC5s and has jump. Only difference between Hawks and Hunchbacks is jump, Hunchies may not have jump but then that gives them some more room and tonnage to use in design and even engine speed, Hunchie variants also use more Energy weapons while Hawks have more Missile, finally Hunchie variants look role designated while Hawks look more flexible in what you can make out of them.
#43
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- The Resolute
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:41 AM
PanzerSmurf, on 22 August 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:
Hmmm well I just unlocked all my JENNER's and managed to finish the Elite grind and set them all up with some better engines and am now looking for a new set too unlock. I was thinking either the Quickdraw , Trebuchet and the Shadowhawk. My eye fell upon the 3 above because their speed is relatively high for their armament. I prefer short range engagements above long range, my JENNER D with 2x SRM system is defo my favorite of my JENNERs atm, so question is, which of the 3 above would be best suited for short range combat and bursts of SRM missiles combined with constant laser barraging while still being maneuverable ? I already had people suggest the cicada instead, but it seems me like a beefed up JENNER and while I love my JENNER, I want something that's a bit different.
I'm just about a month ahead of you in discovering this game. I also bought three Jenners (the F, D and Oxide) and ground through getting them elite. Couple observations I would make:
- Don't believe the hype that the Jenner is the, "Easy Mode", mech. Lights are very hard to master mostly because you have to be able to hit something while running and circling flat out. That's NOT easy to get a grip on. I would suggest that you start with Mediums.
- I don't believe all the advice out there about the Hunchback being a great starter mech is correct. My son is a better gamer than I will ever be and he hated the Hunchback. He loves his Shadowhawk. If his experience is anything like yours I believe you couldn't go wrong with a Shadowhawk.
#44
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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:33 AM
Enlil09, on 27 August 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:
I'm just about a month ahead of you in discovering this game. I also bought three Jenners (the F, D and Oxide) and ground through getting them elite. Couple observations I would make:
- Don't believe the hype that the Jenner is the, "Easy Mode", mech. Lights are very hard to master mostly because you have to be able to hit something while running and circling flat out. That's NOT easy to get a grip on. I would suggest that you start with Mediums.
- I don't believe all the advice out there about the Hunchback being a great starter mech is correct. My son is a better gamer than I will ever be and he hated the Hunchback. He loves his Shadowhawk. If his experience is anything like yours I believe you couldn't go wrong with a Shadowhawk.
The Hunchback was a great starter mech up until the Phoenix mechs came out, and some people just can't get it out of their heads that it's outclassed now. People who have been playing it for two years or more are experts in it, but that doesn't mean it's a good mech for a newer player. The inability to run XL engines limits its flexibility, and all but one variant have huge right torsos that are just incredibly easy to blow off. You can make some cheap, almost stock loadouts with hunchbacks, but that's about all it has going for it, in my opinion.
#47
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- Shredder
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:41 AM
Most seem to be recommending the Shadowhawk. Makes sense, because until the Timber Wolf showed up, it was probably the best 'mech in the game, pound-for-pound, bar none. So if you were just trying to learn the essentials of playing the game, I'd agree in recommending the Shadowhawk.
However, if you're already past that point, and want to start learning more advanced elements, I'd strongly recommend the Hunchback instead. The Shadowhawk is a very effective 'mech, but once you learn the basics of aiming and moving, you won't learn much else. Your will get better at what you've learned, but your learning won't branch out. The Hunchback opens up a lot more lessons. 4G for ballistics - up to three. 4J and/or 4SP for missiles. 4P for heat management. 4SP for learning how to use your arms separately from your torso. 4H for learning how to make good builds out of "inefficient" (aka mixed) hardpoints. Also, the 4G, 4P, and 4J will teach you torso twisting.The Hunchback has an outstanding torso twist, so you can learn to either focus on agility with a bigger engine, or how to handle large volumes of firepower with a lower one.
The only drawback to choosing a Hunchie is that no variants have jump jets. But even if you were to go with a Shadowhawk, the only thing you'd learn to do is pop-tart - and that's pretty much a worthless tactic now that PGI nerfed JJs so drastically. To learn how to really make JJs shine, you need a 'mech that can carry at least four, preferably five. I'd recommend the Griffin or Wolverine for that, although both of them suffer from limited hardpoint options - which brings us back full circle to the Hunchback...
However, if you're already past that point, and want to start learning more advanced elements, I'd strongly recommend the Hunchback instead. The Shadowhawk is a very effective 'mech, but once you learn the basics of aiming and moving, you won't learn much else. Your will get better at what you've learned, but your learning won't branch out. The Hunchback opens up a lot more lessons. 4G for ballistics - up to three. 4J and/or 4SP for missiles. 4P for heat management. 4SP for learning how to use your arms separately from your torso. 4H for learning how to make good builds out of "inefficient" (aka mixed) hardpoints. Also, the 4G, 4P, and 4J will teach you torso twisting.The Hunchback has an outstanding torso twist, so you can learn to either focus on agility with a bigger engine, or how to handle large volumes of firepower with a lower one.
The only drawback to choosing a Hunchie is that no variants have jump jets. But even if you were to go with a Shadowhawk, the only thing you'd learn to do is pop-tart - and that's pretty much a worthless tactic now that PGI nerfed JJs so drastically. To learn how to really make JJs shine, you need a 'mech that can carry at least four, preferably five. I'd recommend the Griffin or Wolverine for that, although both of them suffer from limited hardpoint options - which brings us back full circle to the Hunchback...
Edited by Bloodweaver, 02 September 2014 - 01:41 AM.
#48
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 05:06 AM
Take something from offered heavy mechs. My advice are Cathaprats.
#49
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:05 AM
Bloodweaver, on 02 September 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:
Most seem to be recommending the Shadowhawk. Makes sense, because until the Timber Wolf showed up, it was probably the best 'mech in the game, pound-for-pound, bar none. So if you were just trying to learn the essentials of playing the game, I'd agree in recommending the Shadowhawk.
However, if you're already past that point, and want to start learning more advanced elements, I'd strongly recommend the Hunchback instead. The Shadowhawk is a very effective 'mech, but once you learn the basics of aiming and moving, you won't learn much else. Your will get better at what you've learned, but your learning won't branch out. The Hunchback opens up a lot more lessons. 4G for ballistics - up to three. 4J and/or 4SP for missiles. 4P for heat management. 4SP for learning how to use your arms separately from your torso. 4H for learning how to make good builds out of "inefficient" (aka mixed) hardpoints. Also, the 4G, 4P, and 4J will teach you torso twisting.The Hunchback has an outstanding torso twist, so you can learn to either focus on agility with a bigger engine, or how to handle large volumes of firepower with a lower one.
The only drawback to choosing a Hunchie is that no variants have jump jets. But even if you were to go with a Shadowhawk, the only thing you'd learn to do is pop-tart - and that's pretty much a worthless tactic now that PGI nerfed JJs so drastically. To learn how to really make JJs shine, you need a 'mech that can carry at least four, preferably five. I'd recommend the Griffin or Wolverine for that, although both of them suffer from limited hardpoint options - which brings us back full circle to the Hunchback...
However, if you're already past that point, and want to start learning more advanced elements, I'd strongly recommend the Hunchback instead. The Shadowhawk is a very effective 'mech, but once you learn the basics of aiming and moving, you won't learn much else. Your will get better at what you've learned, but your learning won't branch out. The Hunchback opens up a lot more lessons. 4G for ballistics - up to three. 4J and/or 4SP for missiles. 4P for heat management. 4SP for learning how to use your arms separately from your torso. 4H for learning how to make good builds out of "inefficient" (aka mixed) hardpoints. Also, the 4G, 4P, and 4J will teach you torso twisting.The Hunchback has an outstanding torso twist, so you can learn to either focus on agility with a bigger engine, or how to handle large volumes of firepower with a lower one.
The only drawback to choosing a Hunchie is that no variants have jump jets. But even if you were to go with a Shadowhawk, the only thing you'd learn to do is pop-tart - and that's pretty much a worthless tactic now that PGI nerfed JJs so drastically. To learn how to really make JJs shine, you need a 'mech that can carry at least four, preferably five. I'd recommend the Griffin or Wolverine for that, although both of them suffer from limited hardpoint options - which brings us back full circle to the Hunchback...
I can see it now, the fresh and energetic new pilot in his brand new hunchbacks, ready to follow the advice about twisting and ambushing.
"OKay, I twisted away, but the Jager's high mounted guns were still able to shoot me in the RT. Dang."
"OKay, i twisted away, but the guy moved to his right and shot me in the back, still hitting my RT and blowing it off. Dang."
"Okay, I twisted away, but the guy had jump jets, jumped up and blew off my RT. Dang."
"Okay, I twisted away, but the guy was on a small elevation and shot my RT and blew it off. Dang, will I ever have a match where I get to use more than one ton of ammo from my AC20?"
Before you talk about how the Hback is a great ambush mech, let's be real here and admit that there are loads of medium mechs that can carry big alphas, hide behind an atlas, and then unleash on someone at an opportune moment. Most of them don't have a bullet-magnet right torso that soaks fire almost no matter which way you turn.
The hbacks biggest advantage is that it can field cheap loadouts and you can use the same engines in all the variants.
Edited by Training Instructor, 02 September 2014 - 07:13 AM.
#50
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- The 1 Percent
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:44 AM
ShadowHawk for the win, as you have read in the replies.
Personally, I think new players should start with a fast, maneuverable mech as opposed to a large, slow one. Until you get practice for many new pilots a slow mech is just a big punching bag for other players.
That said, I like the Cicada (which is NOT going to be a popular choice) even though it doesn't hit most of your targets.
At 35 tons, its technically it's a Medium. The 3M can carry 3 Medium lasers and an AC10 yet is still fast enough to get you away from trouble. Makes it a good hit and run loadout as well as a light hunter.
The X5 (Hero) has missles, the only variant that does. Drop 4 Medium lasers and 2 SRM6's into it and it has a surprisingly good punch (at least until you run out of missles...so save them for the right opportunity). Again...good speed and maneuverability.
Once you get 3 variants mastered/elited they improve significantly.
Personally, I think new players should start with a fast, maneuverable mech as opposed to a large, slow one. Until you get practice for many new pilots a slow mech is just a big punching bag for other players.
That said, I like the Cicada (which is NOT going to be a popular choice) even though it doesn't hit most of your targets.
At 35 tons, its technically it's a Medium. The 3M can carry 3 Medium lasers and an AC10 yet is still fast enough to get you away from trouble. Makes it a good hit and run loadout as well as a light hunter.
The X5 (Hero) has missles, the only variant that does. Drop 4 Medium lasers and 2 SRM6's into it and it has a surprisingly good punch (at least until you run out of missles...so save them for the right opportunity). Again...good speed and maneuverability.
Once you get 3 variants mastered/elited they improve significantly.
#51
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- The Hitman
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:05 AM
PanzerSmurf, on 22 August 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:
Hmmm well I just unlocked all my JENNER's and managed to finish the Elite grind and set them all up with some better engines and am now looking for a new set too unlock.
I was thinking either the Quickdraw , Trebuchet and the Shadowhawk.
My eye fell upon the 3 above because their speed is relatively high for their armament.
I prefer short range engagements above long range, my JENNER D with 2x SRM system is defo my favorite of my JENNERs atm, so question is, which of the 3 above would be best suited for short range combat and bursts of SRM missiles combined with constant laser barraging while still being maneuverable ?
I already had people suggest the cicada instead, but it seems me like a beefed up JENNER and while I love my JENNER, I want something that's a bit different.
I was thinking either the Quickdraw , Trebuchet and the Shadowhawk.
My eye fell upon the 3 above because their speed is relatively high for their armament.
I prefer short range engagements above long range, my JENNER D with 2x SRM system is defo my favorite of my JENNERs atm, so question is, which of the 3 above would be best suited for short range combat and bursts of SRM missiles combined with constant laser barraging while still being maneuverable ?
I already had people suggest the cicada instead, but it seems me like a beefed up JENNER and while I love my JENNER, I want something that's a bit different.
Unless pgi perk the heck out of it or reduce its size, ignore the treb. I used to love it and so take it out now and again, but 55 ton mediums made it obsolete. Real shame. And clanners literally tear it apart in seconds. If you want a 50 ton, go centurian. The D and hero Wang can go quick and the A is a brawling legend. Don't jump, but so much more durable than a treb or hunchie.
Agree with others, for 55 ton, shadow hawk rules the IS range....I found quick draws too squishy, much as I liked the idea of them. Bought wolverines in the end and still enjoy those, especially now srms have been fixed....
Edited by RupeyUK, 02 September 2014 - 10:06 AM.
#52
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- Shredder
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:06 PM
Training Instructor, on 02 September 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:
I can see it now, the fresh and energetic new pilot in his brand new hunchbacks, ready to follow the advice about twisting and ambushing...
Yeah... that's why you learn to protect yourself in a Hunchback. Which you don't in a Shadowhawk. Spreading damage in a Shadowhawk is easy. If you only know how to spread damage via experience with that 'mech, which has some of the most well-balanced hitboxes in the entire game, you suddenly become much more vulnerable in a chassis without that significant advantage. It's a crutch. A crutch is perfectly fine if, as I said, you're still learning the basics. In that case you need all the help you can get. But if you want to develop some actual ability in that area, then yeah, you need to notch up the difficulty.
#53
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- The Widow Maker
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:18 PM
Have to agree with Training Instructor. Shadow hawk is a good mech but not a great mech, the hunchback is clearly not a good starter ( from experience). I suggest the wolverine or griffin. Mite I suggest however the Kintaro even with its lack of ac variants. Run xl engines doubles endo and fero whenever possible in mediums.
#54
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- Legendary Founder
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:08 PM
DaemonTor, on 22 August 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:
Dear veteran MechWarriors,
I just recently started with MWO (no previous MW exposure) and I'm amazed how complex the game is. It's a true "thinking's person shooter". I like the pace of the game, I like all the different tech's. The mechs have spot on durability - they allow for a mistake now and then but make too many and you're dead.
That being said I need your help. I'm about to buy my first mech. I did my homework to spend a lot of time on forums to learn a few things. I played with the trial mechs to get a taste of each class (although I did very poorly with assaults - I think I'm missing something there). I decided to go for medium mechs. I also liked lights but they seem to be too important to the match to give it into hands of an inexperienced pilot.
A medium mech feels like it can contribute to the battle now and then and yet its loss is not a big blow to the team. I already know I will need 3 different types of the same mech to unlock my elite skills. And that's where the question comes in:
I'd like to have 3 different variants of a mech that still allow me to play very unique styles. I need your advice (possibly with a build link - I have no ambitions to design my own builds atm) as to which mech is the best for me to buy and still be able to play these 3 different play styles (with each variant dedicated to one):
1) I like LRM support. So one variant should allow me to play a LRM support role with some small energy weapons for defense and an occasional skirmish. I really like the Kintaro trial mech and I would like to see something like that maybe with a NARC or TAG.
2) The second variant should allow me to play a (jump)sniper build or simply somethign that can shoot over long distances. That's something I didn't really try but I came to situations when I was looking at a valley full of enemy mechs and I wished I had long range weapons.
3) I'm not really decided about the third variant. It could be a light hunter or a simple brawler. I'll leave this open and hopefully it will allow for various suggestions even mech-wise.
Please keep in mind that it's all mechs for a newbie so it doesn't have to be the best and most expensive (to buy and to run) build out there. Like I said - I had great fun with the trial Kintaro and I heard trials were very weak in terms of optimization. If you however feel that a specific variant is really good (and it's just expensive or hard to master), mention it and just hint that it's expensive/difficult to master or whatever. The goal is for me to have a clear path on which 3 mech variants to buy and how to equip them so that I can concetrate on the above playstyles, have fun and still progress towards my basic & elite skills.
Thanks so much, guys!
I just recently started with MWO (no previous MW exposure) and I'm amazed how complex the game is. It's a true "thinking's person shooter". I like the pace of the game, I like all the different tech's. The mechs have spot on durability - they allow for a mistake now and then but make too many and you're dead.
That being said I need your help. I'm about to buy my first mech. I did my homework to spend a lot of time on forums to learn a few things. I played with the trial mechs to get a taste of each class (although I did very poorly with assaults - I think I'm missing something there). I decided to go for medium mechs. I also liked lights but they seem to be too important to the match to give it into hands of an inexperienced pilot.
A medium mech feels like it can contribute to the battle now and then and yet its loss is not a big blow to the team. I already know I will need 3 different types of the same mech to unlock my elite skills. And that's where the question comes in:I'd like to have 3 different variants of a mech that still allow me to play very unique styles. I need your advice (possibly with a build link - I have no ambitions to design my own builds atm) as to which mech is the best for me to buy and still be able to play these 3 different play styles (with each variant dedicated to one):
1) I like LRM support. So one variant should allow me to play a LRM support role with some small energy weapons for defense and an occasional skirmish. I really like the Kintaro trial mech and I would like to see something like that maybe with a NARC or TAG.
2) The second variant should allow me to play a (jump)sniper build or simply somethign that can shoot over long distances. That's something I didn't really try but I came to situations when I was looking at a valley full of enemy mechs and I wished I had long range weapons.
3) I'm not really decided about the third variant. It could be a light hunter or a simple brawler. I'll leave this open and hopefully it will allow for various suggestions even mech-wise.
Please keep in mind that it's all mechs for a newbie so it doesn't have to be the best and most expensive (to buy and to run) build out there. Like I said - I had great fun with the trial Kintaro and I heard trials were very weak in terms of optimization. If you however feel that a specific variant is really good (and it's just expensive or hard to master), mention it and just hint that it's expensive/difficult to master or whatever. The goal is for me to have a clear path on which 3 mech variants to buy and how to equip them so that I can concetrate on the above playstyles, have fun and still progress towards my basic & elite skills.
Thanks so much, guys!
I would say the shadowhawk, can make a decent variant build with all three weapon types, with jj.
I prefer Kintro's for lrm or srm action, but no jj.
Edited by Johnny Reb, 02 September 2014 - 09:09 PM.
#55
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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:17 PM
Training Instructor, on 02 September 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:
I can see it now, the fresh and energetic new pilot in his brand new hunchbacks, ready to follow the advice about twisting and ambushing.
"OKay, I twisted away, but the Jager's high mounted guns were still able to shoot me in the RT. Dang."
"OKay, i twisted away, but the guy moved to his right and shot me in the back, still hitting my RT and blowing it off. Dang."
"Okay, I twisted away, but the guy had jump jets, jumped up and blew off my RT. Dang."
"Okay, I twisted away, but the guy was on a small elevation and shot my RT and blew it off. Dang, will I ever have a match where I get to use more than one ton of ammo from my AC20?"
Before you talk about how the Hback is a great ambush mech, let's be real here and admit that there are loads of medium mechs that can carry big alphas, hide behind an atlas, and then unleash on someone at an opportune moment. Most of them don't have a bullet-magnet right torso that soaks fire almost no matter which way you turn.
The hbacks biggest advantage is that it can field cheap loadouts and you can use the same engines in all the variants.
Only 3 of the 5 have the RT issue and that was bad graphics design.
The 4J works fine now running Missiles, one of my best Mechs as a LRM boat. Can also be done as pure Energy with no RT feature at all.
The 4SP never had and still does not have the RT issue.
The others do not matter if you do a ranged build.
Edited by Merchant, 02 September 2014 - 09:17 PM.
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