78 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

Here are my thoughts on the Path to Victory event.

Overall I have to say, I really love the tiered rewards style of the event. It's a very nice thing I think to see. It's interesting and rewards more participation, but lesser participation can still receive something for their efforts. It ends up not being an all or nothing event, but instead encourages people to play to the level of rewards that they want.

Some things I don't like about the event is the fact it's based on the number of victories (wins) in solo play. Now, I think group play should have also been included into this (even though I almost always PUG anyway). My reasoning is that groups only ever fight groups now, so being in a group doesn't "increase" your chances of winning any more than going it solo now.

I also would have liked for it to, instead of being based on "victories" if it was a tiered system based off another state in the game. Some steps I could have suggested instead of just a "win" condition:
- Deal X amount of damage total. (Could be stepped up)
- Earn x amount of points (like last event, was nice. Tier the points and it could be interesting.)
- Could even mix and match. (Get X kills, win this prize. Deal X Assists, win this prize. Deal x points and you can earn this prize as well.)

I just feel that, sometimes, victory isn't as easy to achieve, seen as (in theory, not always in practice), Elo balancing should be giving everyone a 50/50 w/l anyway... I just don't feel (my opinion, not meaning any offense here) that victories are a good prize goal.



Honestly, I also want to mention, while on the subject of the challenge events, I really liked the limited mech selection (so long as Champions remain avalible). This really helped to provide more variety within the event itself, making mechs one normally didn't see too often bubble back up to the top and being seen again in play. It was really nice to see the lesser played mechs again for a while (even if people mothballed them again as soon as the event was over).




Edit: I wish to add why I feel that the win condition is a poor choice for challenges. I feel it's not a good choice because the win condition makes it so not every match is progressing the challenge forwards, which tends to lead to frustration. It also leads to more people trying to game the system to earn wins faster, such as the often complained about "suicide rushes".
If the challenge was based after a different stat, this would make it so every match would go towards the challenge, making one feel like they are making progress in the challenge with every game they play. Currently, you only feel you achieved something if you experienced that win, and close loses (though fun) start to be a great disappointment and adds more frustration.
A win also is not something that is a personal challenge, but is more of a team challenge. Though I understand that this is a team game, solo queue often boils down to 12 random people who try to work together, but can't communicate very well with each other. Depending upon the win to progress your challenge isn't based on you (personal challenge), but becomes quickly based upon the 23 other people in the match with you, and what they do (a team challenge).
Most of the other stats are also considered to be more "skill based", something many desire from this game (more skillful play). It would reward participation within the match more, far more than just showing up to the match and being counted on the winning team. The more skilled the individual is, the more they preform and participate within a match, the faster they will achieve the challenge. This makes the challenge feel more personal and more skillful.
A challenge should have some challenge to achieving, but at the same time it should not be frustrating to participate within the challenge. I also feel that it presents a better experience if every match counts a little for the challenge, which increases enjoyment of the game overall.

Edited by Tesunie, 25 August 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

mostly I like what you are saying

however by saying 50 victories the average person (unless extremely skilled/lucky/unlucky) will need to do between 80 and 120 drops to get the top tier reward, anyone is capable of doing this provided they have enough free time, where as if it was damage based (one of the suggestions) e.g. do 20,000 damage (equivalent of 50 rounds at 400 damage each):

new players often conciser them selves lucky to get 100 damage in a match so a veteran may get that in 30-80 matches, a new player would likely require 150-300 matches to earn the reward

pilots in Light/medium Mechs would have to do a lot more work to earn the award than the heavy/assault pilots (due to reduced weapons payload and therefore potential damage), so there would be few lights/mediums (probably much fewer than usual).

LRM boat players would likely be complaining because there would be no incentive for anyone to take a fast Mech and scout so few missile locks without line of sight, meaning the LRMs would be less useful than usual (and they are not great to begin with).


most of your ideas are good but requiring a fixed amount of damage seems to me a bad idea

[Ironwithin]

If you make the main goal to achieve a set amount of damage good players will get there a lot faster than bad or new ones. That'd be a better challenge, maybe with a leaderboard for the top 10 people with the least amount of matches.
Making it based on wins takes everybody about the same time/amount of matches because no matter how good you are, the matchmaker will make you lose games.

I liked the last two events (the ones based on kills/assists) better because you didn't have to grind through several dozens of matches just to get the reward, at least if you are somewhat competent.
On the other hand, keeping the difficulty down let's everybody be happy about getting free stuff, wich motivates people to play more and/or recruit more people for the game.

Having more of these events is definately a good thing, just sprinkle in a real challenge every once in a while please.

Edited by Ironwithin, 22 August 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Oh great, and the LRM spam was bad enough these last weeks...

[Tesunie]

Rogue Jedi, on 22 August 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

mostly I like what you are saying

however by saying 50 victories the average person (unless extremely skilled/lucky/unlucky) will need to do between 80 and 120 drops to get the top tier reward, anyone is capable of doing this provided they have enough free time, where as if it was damage based (one of the suggestions) e.g. do 20,000 damage (equivalent of 50 rounds at 400 damage each):

new players often conciser them selves lucky to get 100 damage in a match so a veteran may get that in 30-80 matches, a new player would likely require 150-300 matches to earn the reward

pilots in Light/medium Mechs would have to do a lot more work to earn the award than the heavy/assault pilots (due to reduced weapons payload and therefore potential damage), so there would be few lights/mediums (probably much fewer than usual).

LRM boat players would likely be complaining because there would be no incentive for anyone to take a fast Mech and scout so few missile locks without line of sight, meaning the LRMs would be less useful than usual (and they are not great to begin with).


most of your ideas are good but requiring a fixed amount of damage seems to me a bad idea

The concept with many of my suggestions is "Every match you play, you contribute to your challenge score". This way, every match you play will count and add into your score. Damage was just one example I pulled, and doesn't have to be the one used.

But, even say if they used damage as one of the stats to earn a prize, it could still follow like this:
Deal 1,500 damage, earn C-bills (could even be the 6 something million offered). I suggest C-bills for first tier, as this will help newer players to get better gear faster. Most players can probably reach 1,500 damage within a few games, but every game will add to this number as long as one does some damage. (I could probably pull this off in 3 matchs, other people one, and some maybe 15 matches.)
Next tier up could be 5,000 damage, for free mechbay (or maybe premium time to improve awards, helping people get better again).
Next tier could be 12,000 damage...

It doesn't have to be damage, but even damage could be nice as one will almost always deal some damage in a match. This makes every match count!


My issue (which is minor to be fair) with a "win" score is Elo is suppose to balance out your wins, but it makes it so every match you play may or may not count to help you. This can make it frustrating for people. Like, in my case (not the reason I'm mentioning it though, but it got me thinking), I've played about 12 matches since the start of the challenge. Out of those matches, I've only won 2 matches. Each match, I've gotten at least 1 kill (typically) and dealt about 300 damage a match. (Been using only my Jagermech DD, brand new, for this challenge.) If this wasn't a win challenge, I'd already be well off. Because it's a win challenge though, honestly, I've only got 2 registered wins, out of about 12 matches...

One of the problem with win conditions is that you don't always have much say. There are 23 other people in the match that gets to deeply determine your chances of winning. I'm not saying it isn't a good condition, but combine that with Elo trying to keep your W/L at 50%, and it starts to feel less like a challenge of skill, and more of a challenge of getting a ton of matches in. (Don't know about other people here, but Friday is the only day of this event I can really get on and try to play.)


I can understand your point though. Maybe damage isn't the greatest challenge stat to use either, but it might make for an interesting challenge if one of the three tiers required some damage. Mix it up a little maybe?

Edit: By the way, wanted to leave a little remark here and forgot. I don't know about other people, but I find I'm more efficient (dealing more damage per ton invested) with my medium mechs than I do my assaults and heavies, and tend to deal about the same amount of damage overall per match. I don't think a damage tier (if one of the tiers, not the whole challenge) would exclude medium mechs at all, or even lights (where I tend to get some good matches with high damage scores occasionally). However, this would be me personally, and maybe not reflect upon the average player...

Mister D, on 22 August 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Oh great, and the LRM spam was bad enough these last weeks...

May I ask... relevance? (Not to be rude, but I don't see the connection between your post and the topic.)

Edited by Tesunie, 22 August 2014 - 02:12 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Tesunie, on 22 August 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

May I ask... relevance? (Not to be rude, but I don't see the connection between your post and the topic.)

Because every tourney/event so far, the Lrm spam doubles/triples and I don't feel like piloting my As7-D-DC or Raven-3L the entire duration, I have other mechs I want to play.

As far as scoring goes, I prefer the Kills/Assists = points system much better than overall wins.

Why? because I can't always count on MM to give me a team that offers a fair shot at victory every game.

But I can count on me doing my part for the team and getting alot of damage in, at least in assists/spotting/ecm cover w/e.

Edited by Mister D, 22 August 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[John80sk]

My only problem with this event is once again, it is solo queue only. For grindfest events I see no reason why we can't at least grind with friends.

[DeathlyEyes]

They could eliminate ELO in solo queue and this wouldn't be an issue....

[John80sk]

For the most part I'm recognizing everybody I drop with, and it's the same every time... YOLO charge so we can all get this over with and go back to group queue.

[Leidulfr]

Because there really isn't any sort of match maker, these events boil down to time spent. My personal skill isn't going to be able to carry every single team to a victory = no reward. For example, a couple of games ago, I had a match score of 123 and the team lost = no reward; last match, I was cockpitted, only did 63 dmg, and we won = yet, I was rewarded...

If the event was for group play, at least it would feel less like a gamble... and be more enjoyable to play.

[FatYak]

DeathlyEyes, on 22 August 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

They could eliminate ELO in solo queue and this wouldn't be an issue....

HAhahahahahahhaa..........no........

[Tesunie]

FatYak, on 22 August 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

HAhahahahahahhaa..........no........

I agree with you here, but there was no need to say it in the manner in which you did. Show a little courtesy at least.

Nocturnal Link, on 22 August 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Because there really isn't any sort of match maker, these events boil down to time spent. My personal skill isn't going to be able to carry every single team to a victory = no reward. For example, a couple of games ago, I had a match score of 123 and the team lost = no reward; last match, I was cockpitted, only did 63 dmg, and we won = yet, I was rewarded...

If the event was for group play, at least it would feel less like a gamble... and be more enjoyable to play.

I've been playing almost all day since the event started... and I'm up to 4 victories... (I'm also leveling a mech up, which probably isn't helping me personally...) If I can't win soon, I wont be able to get anything more than the mechbay (which thankfully is all I really want and the lowest tiered prize).

[FatYak]

Sorry, but the response was appropriate for the contempt in the question. Remove ELO? finally we have a solo que which actually works and the suggestion is to remove ELO?

Really?

[Ironwithin]

Elo, not an acronym but a name.

[Bigbacon]

Tesunie, on 22 August 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

I agree with you here, but there was no need to say it in the manner in which you did. Show a little courtesy at least.



I've been playing almost all day since the event started... and I'm up to 4 victories... (I'm also leveling a mech up, which probably isn't helping me personally...) If I can't win soon, I wont be able to get anything more than the mechbay (which thankfully is all I really want and the lowest tiered prize).

this is exactly what happened to me today.... at least 4 hours of play since 1pm and i have 5 wins......

i definitely agree with the limit mech selection thing on challenges. It really made the game "better" to play. more variety and less Timber wolves, kit foxes, and direwolves which is pretty much all you see anymore.

Edited by Bigbacon, 22 August 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[Tesunie]

Bigbacon, on 22 August 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

this is exactly what happened to me today.... at least 4 hours of play since 1pm and i have 5 wins......

I recently got my 5th win...

Last match was a loss, such a good match though. Too bad it doesn't count towards the challenge as it was a loss... (I did 600+ damage and was top damage dealer on my team! I was happy.)

[FatYak]

Ironwithin, on 22 August 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

Elo, not an acronym but a name.

Yes it is..... ELO is a habit from my record collecting =D

[Ironwithin]

FatYak, on 22 August 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Yes it is..... ELO is a habit from my record collecting =D

In the context of this game it is a name. I don't mean to "bring you down", though.

[Tesunie]

Ironwithin, on 22 August 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

Elo, not an acronym but a name.

Depends upon if I'm typing on my Kindle or not. If I am on my Kindle... then it's ELO, because that's what my Kindle corrects it to, and I don't see it as a big deal, so I don't correct it's "auto-correct"...

[Ironwithin]

It's not so much a bother when players write it all caps, it really only gets to me when one of the devs does it ... it's just so wrong on so many levels at that point.