291 replies to this topic

[Procyon Alpha]

Okay so if both sides implement the same tactic of targeting the big baddies first the IS have a 50% chance of victory, if piloted by same skill level players, in a 12 V 12? Ummm, NO, what are you smoking and where can I get some of that. Neither the logic of data back this information. BTW good for u to play it as a clanner, but you are the one in 10,000. I give you kudos on that, but being this game has no restrictions that can not be counted upon. The logic is people will play what they find to be the best advantage, it's just competitive human nature. But there does need to be something in place to make the field of play fun for both sides. I again don't believe nerds are the answer but something has to be done.

[Aresye]

kilgor, on 29 August 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

It was also against Clan honor for a MechWarrior to engage a 'Mech that someone else had already engaged.

A common misconception. The Jade Falcons were really the only ones that idolized the glory of 1v1 combat. Us in Clan Wolf are here to get the mission done, but will honor your request for Zellbrigen if asked.

[Procyon Alpha]

mongo2006, on 29 August 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

See we have common ground FatYak so lets work on that. If the two branches are unbalanced then yes make them balanced but Clan mechs have been nerfed to the point that some of the mech variants are going to have a hard time with even the build they came with, designed to have, so go the other way and buff IS and see how that goes before they unbalance Clan mechs.

A lot of the IS mechs are right now obsolete and why would anyone in their right mind take them into a CW match. A system of balance needs to be put into place, I do agree upon that. But PGI will make makes worthless, at least for CW, that is just going to be the nature of this game.

[Ace Selin]

If you Buff IS to be similar to Clan then im ok with that too. But people who want plainly better clan mechs because that's how they were in the books and table top game etc, sorry cant agree with that. This game (at least what we have at the moment) pits both Clanners and IS pilots against each other 12v12. If Clan mechs are simply more powerful than IS, then this game is broken (more than it already is).
Increasing IS im ok with but then you get power creep.

Edited by Ace Selin, 29 August 2014 - 11:42 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

If you want to nerf something on clans, start with LRM's, rest really isn't crazy OP.

Edited by Mister D, 30 August 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[GumbyC2C]

I do not think it is wise to start balancing the clan weapons until we are playing 10vs12. Right now we do not see how things will work out when the IS has a numbers advantage. Even and mixed teams are not the way to observe this.

[Procyon Alpha]

I am not for sure if 10 v 12 is going to be a solution. So the clans will just take 1 light mech and it's really not a loss of anything. I am still staring down 3 TBRs and Dires with 70+ alpha a piece. Humm not really liking those odds, but if that is how it is going to be, not even Commstar has a hope in hell.

[Egomane]

Aresye, on 29 August 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

A common misconception.

Sorry, but you are misinformed on that.

There are different interpretations of cellbriggen, you are right on this one, but they all come down to honorfull combat one against one and that the better skilled warrior will win. Cellbriggen is only disregarded if the opponent is breaking it by showing dishonorable combat. Many vs many battle reduces the honor a clan pilot can gain in battle as he can no longer claim a victory by himself.

In 3049 none of the clans knew how the IS would fight. They would all follow cellbriggen at the beginning of a fight and only use concentrated fire, if forced to do so by opponents with no honor. It took the clans a while to adapt to the tactics of the inner sphere and to engage them with more forces or with no cellbriggen rules. But at this point in time, you all should honor one on one duells and at least start the engagement with that in mind!

But... as the clanmechs are not supposed to be stronger in MWO, just different, I don't blame you for ignoring cellbriggen.

[Damien Tokala]

IT IS PRONOUNCED ZELLBRIGEN

[Egomane]

Damien Tokala, on 29 August 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

IT IS PRONOUNCED ZELLBRIGEN

Who cares!

Anyway... it is the way of the clans and a clan pilot is convinced, that the clan ways are superior to those of the inner sphere scum and wants to prove it.

[Damien Tokala]

It has been said time and time again, clans have superior technology, and stronger weapons, but we are supposed to crumble under focused fire. This is why our burn times are longer, we can really only afford to target one mech, we can't try to fight off many Innersphere with much shorter burn time, can put that damage on a spot even quicker, albeit less damage overall

[Procyon Alpha]

They are just suppose to be different? I...... Can't believe what you just typed. That maybe the biggest fib I have seen on these forums in a while. How with a straight face can you even type that, just wondering you could become president if you keep that up.

[mongo2006]

Man PGI don't care about the lore, they may use it as a template to fashion the mechs but that's about it. This was their first attempt to really balance anything and they botched it, IS vs IS was easy, they used the same weapons but Clan weapons took balancing the game right out their skill set.

So they seem to have tossed out lore and went to the numerical form of balancing and as you can see it still ain't right.

[Damien Tokala]

I'd gladly accept the Innersphere being allowed more mechs than the clans, seeing as how they are meant to work in sheer numbers. You have the houses and the star league, against FOUR of the 20 clans. Yeah, we came here outnumbered, yes we eventually lose in the war of tukkayid and are forced to a fifteen year truce... But for the initial invasion, we were devastating

[Procyon Alpha]

I am still trying to figure out why 4x3 instead of another system or in conjunction with it. But by its self 4x3 is not really a good solution. Okay let's say Clan mechs are weighted differently like 10% more just throwing our a number then put in 4x3 and tonnage. Then you could still have your 12 v 12. I don't think that is the best solution math wise but it is a very simple solution as far as coding is concerned.

[WildeKarde]

According to the lore the clan mechs were better technology and their pilots were generally higher skilled, now MWO can give them the better technology but you can't make the pilot better.

Balancing it out is fine but I'd wait to see how that works before nerfing the actual mechs. You might think they'd just take less lights but it should be dropping a heavy or assault from the clan teams. If you are going to make clan and IS mechs equivalent to balance them against each other then you also need to allow clan mechs the same level of customisation.

You also can't base this on the lore due to the customisation we've been allowed. Some IS builds can beat clan mechs one on one, even being a lighter mech than the clans mech. Lore describes pretty much stock IS mechs with standard pilots facing superior tech and pilots in the clans.

[Procyon Alpha]

Clans have more customization option in general. One chassis can be any combination of any variant and you can add armor. There just needs to be a solid system in place before CW really comes into place. Can we all agree upon that?

[Damien Tokala]

And this is why I think we need modes that will only support TRO builds, and separate modes for custom builds.

[mongo2006]

Damien Tokala, on 30 August 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

But for the initial invasion, we were devastating

Bro I don't thinki most IS players have the stomach for "devastation" lol, not even sure if I would for that matter, we all just want a good fight. I dont mind being outnumbered, don't mind equally capable mechs, because at the end of the day I'll say we where out numbered, by capable mechs and we still kicked their asses.. I want that..

[Damien Tokala]

With the exception of my TBR_S, I aim to keep every clan variant in line with the technical readouts. I can make Aiden prydes timberwolf with the tbrS, I use the tbrC chasis for the tbrA variant. Custom loadout that are not a part of the TRO should incure massive penalties