95 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

You can't really say which is harder or easier to drive, they aren't even remotely similiar.

Assaults..big, slow, lumbering, if you make a mistake, you'll often survive it.
Lights..small, fast, agile, if you make a mistake, you usually become one with the landscape.

I drive both, and the styles are so different it's almost like playing a whole other game.

One thing I must say, currently, I know very few Light pilots who are worth a surat's furry rear end. Sadly, most Light pilots don't bother to avoid bouncing off the terrain, buildings and other Mechs while at full speed, nor do they bother with their JJ when falling, all bad habits, some of which are done to purposely make use of not implemented mechanics. During the alpha and early closed beta, we had collision damage and knockdowns, ask anyone who drove a Light at that time how effective it was to drive the way they do now. I loved driving a Jenner at that time, not ending up on my arse while in the middle of a furball took a lot of effort. Today..bah...ram em all, doesn't matter. A far too common tactic for Lights is to leg hump Assaults, which should be suicide for the Lights.

Once collisions and knockdown get put back in(eventually), we'll see who the good Light pilots are. And we'll see thread after thread of whines about how Lights are useless

[ThrashInc]

Most assaults you play with are awful unless LRM boating.

Though I also think most people have a false perception of what an assault is supposed to do.

Personally, I think any sort of tanking is some sort of TT wet dream - I haven't seen a mech successfully "tank" since I started playing this game and insta-coring Atlas pilots with a splatcat pre-SRM nerf yet I constantly see that perception of a requirement on the forums and in game.

You can live a bit longer in an assault, depending on what's shooting you, you can eat an extra alpha or you're just as dead as anyone else.

I see assaults as more of a weapons platform. You can protect it. You can use it strategically to flank. You can use it as a decoy for an ambush.

"Leading the charge" in an assault is so awful. You have no options but to commit, regardless of what is over the hill/behind the corner/etc. People aren't afraid of you because you are not a tank. In a DW that regularly eats other assaults, I consider other options for two mechs: a KC with 4xUAC5's and a DW with a similar loadout to myself.

You are a regular and primary target for NARC and LRM's. If you make an appearance you will get focus fired (see above about leading the charge). You will be the first to die at any mistake because you are not a tank.

As far as lights go, they are hit or miss on effectiveness. The FS is great, I still think the Raven is great (sniper build 3L), not many of the others are ever really annoying or give me trouble. I have Commandos which are pretty awful currently, but still useful in the 2D model because you can hang around your assaults and scout/ECM. It's not easy to do a ton of damage anymore piloting a Commando, but it is easy to be useful and grab assists/learn the game.

If you were going to give a mech as a starter mech, I'd say FS, Raven 3L, or the Hunchback. If not give it away, have them available with non-garbage loadouts as trial mechs.

[Jon Gotham]

Kristov Kerensky, on 31 January 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

Once collisions and knockdown get put back in(eventually), we'll see who the good Light pilots are. And we'll see thread after thread of whines about how Lights are useless

We'll also see the 4x3 mm rule get broken near constantly due to next to no one dropping in lights.

[Jon Gotham]

W A R K H A N, on 30 January 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

as MWO moves closer and closer to being brawlwarrior online.

Not a bad thing at all-far too much hiding/sniping going on. Emphasis on ranged combat leads to boring, static games where no one dares to move from their hidey hole.

[Ralgas]

both take a lot to master, but assaults are far more forgiving when you get it wrong. As ppl have said, the larger meds and heavies are the beginner sweet spot.

A decent amount of firepower, enough speed to redeploy when they find themselves stranded and enough armor to take a hit or 3 before crumbling.

[Yokaiko]

GundamStompyRobotChurchy, on 31 January 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Most assaults you play with are awful unless LRM

LRM assaults are a flat waste of tonnage.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Assaults, you are very Dependant upon your teamates, you get stranded in a light mech you walk away. You get alpha strike in a light mech, 50% of the time you walk away. Either of those happen in an assualt you stuck in a gunfight.

[Tarogato]

I've always found lights to be a lot more forgiving. If you find yourself in a bad position with a light mech, chances are that the enemy is as surprised to find you there as you are to find them, especially if you're already moving fast. Small target, hard to hit, and it moves so fast that it can evacuate a bad situation expediently.

Assaults, on the other hand... are sitting ducks. With TTK being so unbelievably fast nowadays, if you get caught in the wrong position, you're at the very least losing a side torso before you can even properly react. To play assaults, you have to know the maps intimately, you have to know the enemy spawns and the meta/common strategies, and you have to know when you can and shouldn't engage. I found it a lot more daunting as a new player. So I stuck with lights, because I could just go wherever I pleased, and if I messes up, I could just run away ezpz.

[Kristov Kerensky]

kamiko kross, on 31 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

We'll also see the 4x3 mm rule get broken near constantly due to next to no one dropping in lights.

I'll drop more in Lights when it happens, so will others, we're waiting for being a Light pilot to actually take skill again.

[Jon Gotham]

Kristov Kerensky, on 31 January 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

I'll drop more in Lights when it happens, so will others, we're waiting for being a Light pilot to actually take skill again.

Hmmmm.....not sure about the underlying tone on this one. Not sure if you are trolling or actually being serious?

[InspectorG]

GundamStompyRobotChurchy, on 31 January 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Most assaults you play with are awful unless LRM boating.

Wat?

[Haji1096]

Personally, I find lights to be more forgiving. Lights are difficult because you have to process a lot of information extremely quickly and make decisions. However, you can see more of the battlefield which gives you an idea of what is going to happen and where to be.

With assaults you do not see as much of the battlefield. You have to have an excellent feel for the map and positions where you have support and can do damage to the enemy. You have to play the game 2 to 3 minutes ahead and make more assumptions with less information. It takes a ton of experience to pilot an assault.

[ThrashInc]

InspectorG, on 01 February 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Wat?

Not that LRM boat assaults are great, but that people suck and at least they do something with a lot of LRMs.

[InspectorG]

GundamStompyRobotChurchy, on 01 February 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Not that LRM boat assaults are great, but that people suck and at least they do something with a lot of LRMs.

Yes,versus other newbs.

But wouldnt it be better to spend time getting better with direct fire?

[Brody319]

I would say mediums are harder than both.

Lights have speed to increase their survivability.
Assaults have more armor and firepower.
Heavies are faster than assaults and can mount comparable firepower.

Mediums are somewhere in the middle of heavies and lights.

less armor and firepower than heavies and assaults
but not enough speed to increase survivability

[ThrashInc]

Maybe.

I play group (a friend and I) and solo queue about as often as each other. I see more awful play/skill in group queue either from my team or the other than I do in solo queue. I yell at my computer more in group queue than solo queue. My win/loss in solo queue is ~1.9, and in group queue it is ~1.0.

Obviously you can infer that my win/loss is lower in group queue because I am playing better or more skilled opponents. I would actually infer that in group queue, one team has a significant advantage in brain power, skill, ability, whatever, than the other team and that this rotation of the team you are on results in that win/loss ratio.

There are obviously ways to effect that win/loss ratio for the better, but like I said, I play with one other friend. Even at 800-1200 damage in a DW and 350-700 damage in a FS we'll still lose because thems the breaks.


tl:dr

What was the point of all of that? LRMs are super effective as suppression or psych warfare and anyone who says they are awful hasn't had volleys of 45-60 ripping into them for 5-7%HP per volley. Is that garbage in terms of #missiles to %hp? Sure. Is it garbage if your team never has to face a DW because your missiles easily ripped it to pieces? Probably not.

So while someone could do more damage with PPC, Gauss, lasers, or the super shake and bake build I use than with LRMs, I find LRMs extremely useful and have ran 4xLRMx15w/Artemis and 4xML on my Stalkers in the past. There is also the issue of some people being awful at using FFA or free look with their arms as well as the fact that the DWF-Prime trial mech is deceivingly bad.