26 replies to this topic

[CrypticApathy]

Im looking at one of these 2 as my first starter. What are the pros/cons of each of these. i dont want other mech suggestions only info on these 2 types.

[3xnihilo]

I don't have a ton of experience in ravens, but I have played jenners quite a bit. The ECM is a big plus for the raven and I think they tank better than jenners, which are pretty squishy. Jenners handle better or at least to me they feel more nimble and the jumpjets can be equipped on all the variants. As far as roles go the raven 3l is a great support mech with the ECM. The jenners are like fast little gun boats that pack a lot of weaponry. It is good at getting in and out of the fray, unloading a big alpha strike on the enemy and circling back for more. I will let others give you more details but the Jenner trial is a really good build so you can see first hand what a Jenner is like.

[TercieI]

Go Jenners, of these two. All Jenner variants are at least OK (the F is top-tier, the D is good, the K and O are OK), whereas on the Raven side, you only have one good (3L), one "interesting" (4X) and one lousy (2X). Personally, I love them both, but for a first light, the Jenner is definitely better because you have to get all three at least through elite.

[Xelah]

That really is a tough call. In a straight duel, the raven 3L with ECM and streaks should be able to maul any of the jenners assuming equal pilot skill.

This is however, a team game and fights do not usually go down like that. Raven vs Jenner in lance engagements shouldn't even really happen more than brief exchanges of laser fire. Both are low priority targets and they should be poking at the bigger mechs to exploit weakness. My money is on the Jenner's side because of better firepower options and loadouts.

The real downside to piloting a Jenner is the complete lack of ECM, so if you don't already know how to use cover to the best advantage, you will have to learn. If you want an easier learning curve, pick the raven, maybe move on to other lights once you have a feel for cover. The firepower difference isn't huge, so with decent skill you should be able to compensate.

[Jay Z]

<3 Jenners <3

[TercieI]

Unless the skill level is "unskilled," a Jenner should whip a Raven in a dogfight. It's more agile, better armed and the Raven has giant legs. The Raven's legs are such a significant liability that you almost never see the 3ML/2SSRM build any more, just 2ERLL because coupled with the streak nerf, Ravens are just not effective close fighters.

Makes me because that was my favorite build (pictured in my sig, in fact).

[Ertur]

All Jenners can go 152kph, only one Raven can (the Huginn). Most Jenners have JJ's (only Oxide doesn't), but only the Huginn and 4X Ravens have them. Jenners have big easy to hit CT's, Ravens have big easy to hit legs.
I have and enjoy all variants of both.
Get 'em all. But Jenners are easier to start with, I think.

[IllCaesar]

Jenners are smaller, typically faster, and pack more short-range firepower than a Raven. They're the littlest brawlers on the battlefield. Take the trial out for a spin, its great at taking on other lights and rear coring enemies. They run hotter than Ravens, but thats because they pack more firepower. A prototypical hit-and-run mech that can hold its own against other light mechs and strikes fear in the heart of any Dire Wolf or Atlas pilot that is out on their own.

Ravens are more along the lines of support/scout mechs. They're not as fast as Jenners, and their hardpoints aren't symmetrical, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you pilot the mech and its loadout. Due to those hardpoints, you'll often have an arm or an entire side torso that you can use to sponge up damage, though this is still a light mech, so speed is a better may to avoid damage than torso twisting. Without a doubt, the best one is the 3L, because it has ECM. All of them have missile hardpoints suited for LRMs (generally not advised). The lack of speed and odd hardpoints often leave it vulnerable to other light mechs, however. Its not as bad as the Cicada *shiver* in that regard though.

Between the both of them, the Jenner has more variants that are viable. While the K (as far as I know) is literally just a D with one less missile slot, its still a pretty strong mech. They're not hard to learn at all. The Ravens, on the other hand, can be quite weird. The 3L is the most favoured because of ECM. The 4X has AMS, Ballistic, Missile and Energy hardpoints, all alongside jump jets, giving you a lot of variety in your loadout (a lot of people using the 4X use the boomchicken loadout), and while its interesting, most players are better off in a 3L, where you'll be using your ECM ans NARC for a lot of support. The 2X gets no love because there's really nothing great about it. It has four energy hardpoints and one missile hardpoint, which makes it best to pilot against other lights, but because they only comprise about two players on the enemy team each match, that tradeoff for the ECM usually isn't worth it.

The Jenners are easier to learn, and you'll probably keep two of them. The Ravens are more atypical. Not quite as good for fighting or hit-and-runs. While the 3L is a welcome addition to any team (always put ECM in an ECM-capable mech, period), and the 2X and 4X are oddities that may be surprisingly good with the right loadout or unsurprisingly a slog to finish getting basic efficiency tiers with. Ravens aren't bad, but they're probably not what you should get as a starter mech, whereas a Jenner is the best starter chassis in the light weight class. Consider Ravens down the line if you like light mechs, but get the Jenners now.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 11 September 2014 - 08:23 PM.

[Spheroid]

Jenner is pure win. Ravens are junk with crap engines. The 3L is nearly six million stock.

Who needs ECM when you have radar dep? Its not like anyone is using streaks anymore.

[ShinVector]

Simply put..
Jenner better agressive/offensive Light.
Raven 3L Better defensive/support Light.
Kitfox current best defensive/support Light but slow.

[Eboli]

A Raven (3L) or Jenner can both be a great light mech in the right hands and an asset to the team. All the Jenners have JJs except the Oxide while the main go to Raven is the 3L which does not have JJs (but ECM).

I have dropped in both chassis hundreds of times but for me the Jenner is the better mech when it comes to fun and damage potential. The Jenner is great for an aggressive player but don't get me wrong, a Raven 3L can do great amount of damage as well but usually such a player is being careful and sneaky.

Raven 3L still has torso hit issues which means you don't tend to take as much damage as you should but most players are aware of this and tend to shoot the Raven's legs instead which are easy to hit and damage and cripple. Most long term players here remember the days of the dreaded 3L pack with 3 medium lasers and streaks with ECM and thus take great pleasure in killing them now as they are now easier to destroy by legging first.

Jenners have a little bit more respect IMO regarding how dangerous they can be by zipping in and out of the battle. Having JJs you have a greater choice in escape/attack routes.

I would suggest getting the Jenners Mastered first and then you can try the Ravens if you are keen. The 2X and 4X can be harder to Elite (probably as far as you need them to go) and most players will then sell such chassis and keep the 3L.

Take at least 2 JJs for the Jenners and try to keep an XL280+ in the CT for speed. Maxiumum Engine size is 300XL which gives you a speed of 152km/hr with speed tweak.

Enjoy whatever choice you make and don't give up on them when you get one-shotted as it will happen.

Eboli

Edited by Eboli, 11 September 2014 - 10:02 PM.

[MasterBLB]

No one mentioned that yet,but Ravens suffer from different max engine ratings - 2X and 4X 275,3L 295 and Huginn 300 while all Jenners can equip the same one.
As Eboli said,for aggresive play Jenner will be better (though if you're going to be real running SuddenDeath I'd recommend Firestarters,Ember in particular); if you're going to be rather supporter/spotter then Raven 3L is the way to go.

[PhoenixFire55]

Only reason to even consider a Raven is ECM. Everything else, Jenner is better hands down.

[Eboli]

As a follow up looking at my stats I notice that my Jenner (Oxide) has a greater damage and kill average while my Raven 3L has greater XP generation.
Damage average per match: 337 (Oxide) vs 147.
GXP average per match: 1060 (Raven) vs 949.

I assume CBill generation as well.

I take this because the Raven I tend to use is more a support mech with better spotting capabilities and is armed with narc.

I play aggressively as a Jenner player.

So it may come down to whether you like to dish out damage and kill vs play support for the team. Incidentally my win/loss rate are both over 1.3 (predominantly solo) for these mechs while my total win/loss is 1.02 for all mechs.

This may not be important to you but any info is good info.

Cheers
Eboli

[Ruccus]

You can fit an AC20 on a Raven, but you can't on a Jenner. Isn't that all you really need to know?


Seriously though, I think the Jenner makes for the better hit-and-run skirmisher but the Raven is an excellent sniper (the Raven 3Ls and Kit Foxes running twin ERLLs and ECM can be among the most annoyingly effective light mechs on the battlefield). If you want to boat energy weapons the Jenner's up your alley while if you like sniping or ballistic weapons (the Raven really can fit an AC20 or Gauss Rifle, though the LB10X might be a more realistic option if you want secondary weaponry and a speed of over 100kph) the Raven is a good pick. Both do missiles decently.

Edited by Ruccus, 13 September 2014 - 06:32 PM.

[Xelah]

Terciel1976, on 11 September 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

Unless the skill level is "unskilled," a Jenner should whip a Raven in a dogfight.

You realize the hit box for a Jenner's CT is enourmous, right? Unless the skill level is "unskilled," the raven should win as it takes longer to chew off both legs than it does to bust a CT. I don't presently own a raven, but this is my preferred method of killing jenners in my spider.

[Adiuvo]

Xelah, on 18 September 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

You realize the hit box for a Jenner's CT is enourmous, right? Unless the skill level is "unskilled," the raven should win as it takes longer to chew off both legs than it does to bust a CT. I don't presently own a raven, but this is my preferred method of killing jenners in my spider.

Lasers deal more efficient damage than streaks. The same applies to a 2xERLL Raven.

A Jenner will always be able to beat a Raven, typically without even taking a large amount of damage.

[Tremendous Upside]

Terciel1976, on 11 September 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

Go Jenners, of these two. All Jenner variants are at least OK (the F is top-tier, the D is good, the K and O are OK), whereas on the Raven side, you only have one good (3L), one &quot;interesting&quot; (4X) and one lousy (2X). Personally, I love them both, but for a first light, the Jenner is definitely better because you have to get all three at least through elite.

Another reason to pick the Jenner is that all of them can be built around the same XL engine (making them cheaper to customize). Buy one XL280-300 and you can share it across all of the variants to level them up. The Ravens have different engine size caps - so if you want to get the most out of each, you'll likely need to buy more than one XL engine. If money is a concern that's something to keep in mind.

[terrycloth]

AC20 Ravens rule... unless people notice. Then it usually goes bad. I've had plenty of games where I ran out of ammo before anyone bothered to shoot at me though.

3L w/ narc and other weapons of choice (I use 3xMPL and LRM5) is very effective. It doesn't even need to go fast, the stock 210XL is fine.

Kit Fox seems like it would be better but hardpoints kill it if you try to fit on ECM and Narc. You can make it into a pocket medium though.

Jenners can do a lot of damage if played well. Basically, you need to be out of line of sight before they start shooting at you. Or they need to be dead. Chasing down people who flee from your friends when cored is a lot of fun.

[L Y N X]

Eboli, on 11 September 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

A Raven (3L) or Jenner can both be a great light mech in the right hands and an asset to the team. All the Jenners have JJs except the Oxide while the main go to Raven is the 3L which does not have JJs (but ECM).

I have dropped in both chassis hundreds of times but for me the Jenner is the better mech when it comes to fun and damage potential. The Jenner is great for an aggressive player but don't get me wrong, a Raven 3L can do great amount of damage as well but usually such a player is being careful and sneaky.

Raven 3L still has torso hit issues which means you don't tend to take as much damage as you should but most players are aware of this and tend to shoot the Raven's legs instead which are easy to hit and damage and cripple. Most long term players here remember the days of the dreaded 3L pack with 3 medium lasers and streaks with ECM and thus take great pleasure in killing them now as they are now easier to destroy by legging first.

Jenners have a little bit more respect IMO regarding how dangerous they can be by zipping in and out of the battle. Having JJs you have a greater choice in escape/attack routes.

I would suggest getting the Jenners Mastered first and then you can try the Ravens if you are keen. The 2X and 4X can be harder to Elite (probably as far as you need them to go) and most players will then sell such chassis and keep the 3L.

Take at least 2 JJs for the Jenners and try to keep an XL280+ in the CT for speed. Maxiumum Engine size is 300XL which gives you a speed of 152km/hr with speed tweak.

Enjoy whatever choice you make and don't give up on them when you get one-shotted as it will happen.

Eboli

I prefer the Raven over the Jenner but then I consider myself skilled in most light mechs. I prefer lights in general to all other mechs. But for a first time newer player, Eboli nailed why the OP should probably go with Jenner over the Raven.

I think the Jenner is simply easier to employ effectively, I think the raven is a more technical mech, making it more difficult, but it has different roles as well.