64 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Lightning Kurita, on 16 September 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

At this state i just have to share my opinion.

Ive waited for the vulture since Mwo was released. Because its one of my 2 Favourite Mechs! (The other one is the Marauder)

I think that there should be definetly an alacarte one, because those, who purchased these two packages get it for FREE!!!... I mean thats more then enough isnt it?

Iam not the richest man in the world and cant affort tons of money just to get the dog . I spent 110 bucks and probably more in the future with the alacarte option...(This availability is an awesome Idea, for those who want a 30% variant of specific mechs, but are unable to pay much money)

Iam a student now, who doesnt earn any money anymore, so from that point of view im a bit disappointed to see that happen...

I noticed that "...for now" too and hope they will implement an alacarte option for the dog too, maybe a month later or so... i mean 360 Dollar thats 280€...to be honest... thats a lot of money for a student ...at least for me .. and its still a game !

So to ME ... its not quite fair that i have to wait another 4 months ...

well just my opinion

I was going to liek and agree to your post, but it is against my religion to do so when a person self-likes......

[Lightning Kurita]

I dont care about likes at all / thats why iam liking urs ironic isnt it?

Its just my way to support my post / opinion

So basicly if u put a bunch of letters aside just for a button its ur thing u know?

It kind of funny to see, that everyone has his own religions

Edited by Lightning Kurita, 16 September 2014 - 05:16 PM.

[yalk]

Dread Naught, on 16 September 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

What really gets me is the amount of people that like to throw around the word "entitlement". It seems like the folks that ARE getting the Vulture for free are defending it with blood. They are saying things like "You people that didn't bleed money shouldn't get it, and you're all a bunch of whiners that don't deserve it, and you think you're entitled."

I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy in these kinds of statements. Many of us aren't asking for a handout. We're simply looking at the (I) invasion variant, and asking ourselves "what makes this so special from the other (I) mechs in wave 1?"

The simple fact stands that all (I) mechs were available a-la-cart. We want to PAY for the vulture in an a-la-cart option. I don't have much interest in buying goods that don't "do it" for me in these larger packs. Many folks are stating that they will just wait until the c-bill version comes out. Fine, this is a totally legit strategy, but lets face it, PGI, and by extension, the community, are hurt by this because guess what?..... People aren't going to buy the vulture when the option to purchase the vulture as a stand alone option doesn't exist. We go down the paths that are presented to us. We're asking for another path to be presented. And, in exchange, there is a monetary reward. Seems to me that the only people "entitled" in this conversation, are the people screaming at us that they deserve it more, and for free, and then turn around and tell us that we don't support this game, or the community, when in fact that couldn't be further from the truth.

Everyone is "entitled" to their opinion on this topic, but a little sanity and logic may go a long way toward keeping things civil.

For the love of......THIS

I WANT to pay for this, I can't justify paying over $300 for it....and since I don't want any of the intervening mechs it would literally be me paying that much just for it. You want all the other mechs? Great! You get it free. I just know I'm going to have to go with the Cbill version if it's not Alá cart, and that's not a threat, just a fact of how it has to be...either they get my $55 or nothing, I've still got Founders MC to get it in December anyway...

Maybe the bonus free one could come out Sept 23 and the alá carts then come out Oct 23...something

Edited by yalk, 16 September 2014 - 06:33 PM.

[Dark DeLaurel]

yalk, on 16 September 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Bishop, you think they'd ever change anything else to make the bonus one stand out?

Like 35%-40% Cbill boost instead of 30%? Really, anything that would still make the bonus MadDog awesome but allow them to sell the invasion one? Cause I honestly don't want to take away from someone getting something cool for laying down bank, but I'd sure love a Cbill boosted prime...even if it sucks (still using my summoner prime)

If we see the Bonus Mad Dog get a higher C-Bill bonus then the Founders `Mechs expect another backlash like the one when the Hero `Mechs were released. You may not want to take away from someone getting something cool, but you did just advocate that...

Dread Naught, on 16 September 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

What really gets me is the amount of people that like to throw around the word "entitlement". It seems like the folks that ARE getting the Vulture for free are defending it with blood. They are saying things like "You people that didn't bleed money shouldn't get it, and you're all a bunch of whiners that don't deserve it, and you think you're entitled."

I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy in these kinds of statements. Many of us aren't asking for a handout. We're simply looking at the (I) invasion variant, and asking ourselves "what makes this so special from the other (I) mechs in wave 1?"

The simple fact stands that all (I) mechs were available a-la-cart. We want to PAY for the vulture in an a-la-cart option. I don't have much interest in buying goods that don't "do it" for me in these larger packs. Many folks are stating that they will just wait until the c-bill version comes out. Fine, this is a totally legit strategy, but lets face it, PGI, and by extension, the community, are hurt by this because guess what?..... People aren't going to buy the vulture when the option to purchase the vulture as a stand alone option doesn't exist. We go down the paths that are presented to us. We're asking for another path to be presented. And, in exchange, there is a monetary reward. Seems to me that the only people "entitled" in this conversation, are the people screaming at us that they deserve it more, and for free, and then turn around and tell us that we don't support this game, or the community, when in fact that couldn't be further from the truth.

Everyone is "entitled" to their opinion on this topic, but a little sanity and logic may go a long way toward keeping things civil.

Because it is a statement of self entitlement by the folks who are not getting the Mad Dog. The hypocrisy is on your part, for whatever your reasons were for not getting the top tier packages before you miss out now. So now you want to get the top tier reward for not buying the top tier packages.

Just because packages worked one way before does not mean they will keep working the same way in the future. To expect something like that is pure insanity, yes it is always nice for something like to stay the same, but in the end if a better model comes along that allows them to make money they will take it.

No where I have i read that those getting the Mad Dog figure they deserve it more. They are saying they should get it because they have been avid supporters and bought all the other packages without question through the ups and downs.

[D R E A D N A U G H T]

Dark DeLaurel, on 16 September 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

If we see the Bonus Mad Dog get a higher C-Bill bonus then the Founders `Mechs expect another backlash like the one when the Hero `Mechs were released. You may not want to take away from someone getting something cool, but you did just advocate that...



Because it is a statement of self entitlement by the folks who are not getting the Mad Dog. The hypocrisy is on your part, for whatever your reasons were for not getting the top tier packages before you miss out now. So now you want to get the top tier reward for not buying the top tier packages.

Just because packages worked one way before does not mean they will keep working the same way in the future. To expect something like that is pure insanity, yes it is always nice for something like to stay the same, but in the end if a better model comes along that allows them to make money they will take it.

No where I have i read that those getting the Mad Dog figure they deserve it more. They are saying they should get it because they have been avid supporters and bought all the other packages without question through the ups and downs.

Okay this is what I'm talking about. Can you explain to me how it is a statement of self entitlement when I'm saying "I want to give you money for this item." If you get it for free because you are an unending chasm of money and resources and could afford to buy the top tier packages then GOOD FOR YOU! In fact, THANK YOU for your contribution! I'm glad we have players like you and yes, you should be rewarded. What I'm saying is, give it to those players for free for being more awesome than the rest of us, but for us mere mortals, what's the harm in allowing us to pay for it? I guess you'd rather we just get it for free. Great. I'm sitting on 70 million c-bills and I can get it for free down the road, but I'd rather give PGI my money.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Dread Naught, on 16 September 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Okay this is what I'm talking about. Can you explain to me how it is a statement of self entitlement when I'm saying "I want to give you money for this item." If you get it for free because you are an unending chasm of money and resources and could afford to buy the top tier packages then GOOD FOR YOU! In fact, THANK YOU for your contribution! I'm glad we have players like you and yes, you should be rewarded. What I'm saying is, give it to those players for free for being more awesome than the rest of us, but for us mere mortals, what's the harm in allowing us to pay for it? I guess you'd rather we just get it for free. Great. I'm sitting on 70 million c-bills and I can get it for free down the road, but I'd rather give PGI my money.

Because you want the exact same thing that the top tier folk are getting! That is how it is entitlement, pure and simple.

[D R E A D N A U G H T]

Dark DeLaurel, on 16 September 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

Because you want the exact same thing that the top tier folk are getting! That is how it is entitlement, pure and simple.

Okie dokie then. I am not asking that "top tier folk" not be recognized. I am simply suggesting that perhaps there are better ways to recognize them without shutting out others. Pure and simple. As much as you would like to shut down the conversation and disregard the desires of other members of this community, you won't be able to. That in and of itself is entitlement. You'll defend getting Vulture so vigorously because YOU feel entitled to it. Taking the narcissistic approach just makes you look silly and unpleasant. You feel you deserve something special. Great. I'm saying the Vulture isn't that special and by that merit alone should be offered on a purchase basis to those willing to fork over cash. You obviously didn't read any of my points about (I) mechs being "not special" in the grand scheme of things. You just see that you're getting something for FREE before others have a chance at it and that makes you feel like a snow flake. Get over it. It's a conversation and you don't get to dictate the wishes and desires that other members of the community hold. If you don't like the content of the conversation that's fine. But if others feel slighted by this move, then we should have the freedom to express that and ask for change.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Dread Naught, on 16 September 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Okie dokie then. I am not asking that "top tier folk" not be recognized. I am simply suggesting that perhaps there are better ways to recognize them without shutting out others. Pure and simple. As much as you would like to shut down the conversation and disregard the desires of other members of this community, you won't be able to. That in and of itself is entitlement. You'll defend getting Vulture so vigorously because YOU feel entitled to it. Taking the narcissistic approach just makes you look silly and unpleasant. You feel you deserve something special. Great. I'm saying the Vulture isn't that special and by that merit alone should be offered on a purchase basis to those willing to fork over cash. You obviously didn't read any of my points about (I) mechs being "not special" in the grand scheme of things. You just see that you're getting something for FREE before others have a chance at it and that makes you feel like a snow flake. Get over it. It's a conversation and you don't get to dictate the wishes and desires that other members of the community hold. If you don't like the content of the conversation that's fine. But if others feel slighted by this move, then we should have the freedom to express that and ask for change.

Get over yourself, you are correct in the (I) not being special. So why is there such an uproar about this? Do I care I get it? Not remotely the only `Mech I wanted to see I got back during the Founders program (which is the Atlas). The point you are making is that everyone should be able to purchase the (I) version. Once again I ask why? As you yourself stated it is nothing special. How are others being shutout other than the `Mech is an (I)?

[CHH Badkarma]

this is like trying to clap with one hand. Kid B wants what kid A next door has and is going to throw a tantrum until he gets his way.

something given has no value. period. Here is a concept. EARN IT!!

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 16 September 2014 - 10:23 PM.

[D R E A D N A U G H T]

Dark DeLaurel, on 16 September 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

Get over yourself, you are correct in the (I) not being special. So why is there such an uproar about this? Do I care I get it? Not remotely the only `Mech I wanted to see I got back during the Founders program (which is the Atlas). The point you are making is that everyone should be able to purchase the (I) version. Once again I ask why? As you yourself stated it is nothing special. How are others being shutout other than the `Mech is an (I)?

Look, I don't know how to paint a clearer picture for you or put it in terms that you can digest. You say yourself there is nothing special about it, but you defend your position with the vigor of a spartan army. I seriously can't tell if you're just trolling at this point. I'm actually kind of laughing about the whole thing and how ridiculous it is that I'm even engaged in this argument.

You ask how is it different. I would like to explain this to you if you are open to hearing me out. The (I) version gives the xp bonus and the nice geometry changes. We are shut out because we are less fortunate than those that have the money to drop on two top tier packages, or simply refuse to pay that amount of money for one mech.

You are arguing that you deserve this mech because you paid a crap ton of money. How are we being shut out? Every other (I) mech in the game has been available to purchase on a per mech basis except this one. Why this one? Because PGI knows that it is an iconic mech. They are betting that other people that wouldn't normally drop this kind of money for a single mech will, in fact, do just that in order to get the (I) version of this mech. Why is this an issue....because your customers, right or wrong, were hoping, and REASONABLY expecting this mech to be available via a-la-cart based on the previous sale for wave 1. PGI reasonably set this expectation themselves. That is why there is an uproar....if we can call it that. Some of us are just asking for clarification or for PGI to reconsider "THIS MECH" as the top tier reward when it is just an (I) variant. Now if it were a gold vulture....nice, that would be a pretty cool nod to the folks who have dropped the big bucks. I would be able to accept that much more than just "nope, you cant have the (I) version standalone even though every other (I) mech was available.

Just because PGI changed up their sales model doesn't mean we have to like it and that we should just shut up. Please, I'm not trying to offend you or anyone else that plunked down their hard earned cash. Some of us are interested in HAVING the conversation. If you don't want to engage in it, then by all means, don't.

[Cavendish]

Just my opinion (and yes, I spent too much on the game and will get all the rewards...)

The (I) version should of course be availible in the pack and as ala carte. The reward version should be a 30% Cbill bonus and special paintjob or Gold or whatever.

As a side note, I am sorta glad we have not heard anything about a Gold Mad Dog because if they would release that, I would be forced to throw money at them for it. This mech is an obsession for me, and I am sad to report that a $500 price tag would not stop me

[Dark DeLaurel]

Dread Naught, on 16 September 2014 - 10:46 PM, said:

We are shut out because we are less fortunate than those that have the money to drop on two top tier packages, or simply refuse to pay that amount of money for one mech.

This is actually what I have been getting at the whole time. It is a reward for those who have went above and beyond everyone else to support the game through the packages. Is it a cash grab on their part to try and get a la carte folks to upgrade to a full package? damn right it is, is it a cash grab to sell more Gargoyle packages? f**kin' `eh it is. What it is, is as much as I hate to say this is, smart marketing and targeting the "whales" to buy more and gives them incentives to do so while trying to entice the other people to spend more.

The special geometry is nothing special, i found that out on my (F)(P) and (I) `Mechs, the C-Bill boost is nice but guess what? For the (F) and (P) versions are nothing special for `Mechs and are rarely used (this is even provable in game). The (I) versions don't matter as any Clan `Mech can be configured to any other variant. So that leaves the C-Bill boost as a reward, the camo will most likely be put up for sale in the near future so that is a wash.

Offended? Not really, tired of hearing "I didnt want to support the game at timeline X, but now that I see I can get something I want, I want what I didn't buy previously!" or "I cant afford to buy option A and went with option Z, now that I see option A gets shiny give me! give me!"

Gaming is an expense, and a luxury sad fact but it is. Nothing is fair about this, and this dates back to the old Quake days when the folks who had better video cards would crush everyone running crappier cards (man I miss glQuake). There is always going to be something that someone figures is unfair, no matter how you slice it. Trying to make everything so it is fair, gets everyone nothing in the end. And this is the point I want to make, life in general sucks. For me to afford to do what I do, I work 14+ hours a day 15+ days in a row away from home. Guess what it does suck sometimes but I suck it up and enjoy what I have, and it makes spending time with friends and family all that more precious.

[Ozric]

Dark DeLaurel, on 16 September 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

Because you want the exact same thing that the top tier folk are getting! That is how it is entitlement, pure and simple.

Dark DeLaurel, on 16 September 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

Get over yourself, you are correct in the (I) not being special. So why is there such an uproar about this? Do I care I get it? Not remotely the only `Mech I wanted to see I got back during the Founders program (which is the Atlas). The point you are making is that everyone should be able to purchase the (I) version. Once again I ask why? As you yourself stated it is nothing special. How are others being shutout other than the `Mech is an (I)?

The answer to both of these is the same, and already answered several times. The (I) version, being a standard upgrade, should have been made available for al a carte purchase in the same fashion as the other 12 Clan chassis. The reward for not having any other financial responsibility and buying all the packs should have been greater than a standard upgrade, such as a gold paint job or enhanced bonus (+35% cbills/+loyalty and cbills).

This way, everybody really does win.

But, alas, marketing.

Edited by Ozric, 16 September 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[CHH Badkarma]

Dark DeLaurel, on 16 September 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

This is actually what I have been getting at the whole time. It is a reward for those who have went above and beyond everyone else to support the game through the packages. Is it a cash grab on their part to try and get a la carte folks to upgrade to a full package? damn right it is, is it a cash grab to sell more Gargoyle packages? f**kin' `eh it is. What it is, is as much as I hate to say this is, smart marketing and targeting the "whales" to buy more and gives them incentives to do so while trying to entice the other people to spend more.

The special geometry is nothing special, i found that out on my (F)(P) and (I) `Mechs, the C-Bill boost is nice but guess what? For the (F) and (P) versions are nothing special for `Mechs and are rarely used (this is even provable in game). The (I) versions don't matter as any Clan `Mech can be configured to any other variant. So that leaves the C-Bill boost as a reward, the camo will most likely be put up for sale in the near future so that is a wash.

Offended? Not really, tired of hearing "I didnt want to support the game at timeline X, but now that I see I can get something I want, I want what I didn't buy previously!" or "I cant afford to buy option A and went with option Z, now that I see option A gets shiny give me! give me!"

Gaming is an expense, and a luxury sad fact but it is. Nothing is fair about this, and this dates back to the old Quake days when the folks who had better video cards would crush everyone running crappier cards (man I miss glQuake). There is always going to be something that someone figures is unfair, no matter how you slice it. Trying to make everything so it is fair, gets everyone nothing in the end. And this is the point I want to make, life in general sucks. For me to afford to do what I do, I work 14+ hours a day 15+ days in a row away from home. Guess what it does suck sometimes but I suck it up and enjoy what I have, and it makes spending time with friends and family all that more precious.

You elitist basta$$rd! How dare you flaunt that you work hard and pay money into a game you want to support!

HOW DARE YOU not want others to have what you have earned with your support (or even a watered down version)

You sir are not a nice person!

SPOIL THE CHILDREN!!!









Notice the sarcasm?

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 16 September 2014 - 11:39 PM.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Ozric, on 16 September 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

The answer to both of these is the same, and already answered several times. The (I) version, being a standard upgrade, should have been made available for al a carte purchase in the same fashion as the other 12 Clan chassis. The reward for not having any other financial responsibility and buying all the packs should have been greater than a standard upgrade, such as a gold paint job or enhanced bonus (+35% cbills/+loyalty and cbills).

This way, everybody really does win.

But, alas, marketing.

I am not disagreeing with the fact it should have been made different than the typical (I) version, but as I said in another thread giving it a higher C-Bill bonus than the Founders and even the Hero `Mechs will create a backlash and a half. As it makes people feel their purchase was worthless (nothing like running a (F) and then seeing hero `Mechs get released providing higher bonuses). Since they have already used the gold paint job on 500$ packages, it can't really get used here as some folks would feel slighted that they are giving away a uber expensive `Mech. Unfortuantly there is not many ways to make things different in this game than what has already been done, either way people will get pissed off. It is a matter of picking and choosing the battle and PGI has picked a standard (I) version as their battle.

I have so many problems with the "Everybody wins" saying I won't get in to it here. I actually take great offence to the "any other financial responsibilities" portion. I have to work my bag off to keep my house, pay the bills, etc. so I am quite selective in where I spend my money and how I save up for things.

[Ozric]

Dark DeLaurel, on 16 September 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

I have so many problems with the "Everybody wins" saying I won't get in to it here. I actually take great offence to the "any other financial responsibilities" portion. I have to work my bag off to keep my house, pay the bills, etc. so I am quite selective in where I spend my money and how I save up for things.

You can only have a problem with everybody wins if you think the reward scheme is some kind of competition. It should be scaled of course, and it is simply the level of the scaling that we are talking about here. Also, if the Clan pack reward mech was to get a 35% bonus then the IS pack reward mech should get it too as well as all the real golden mechs.

But you are right, I was rude to call you out for your financial planning. I can only apologise, it was early in the morning, but in my defence you were totally coming off as an elitist teenager. But we should both remember that PGI are not likely to change anything now whatever we do, and all these threads and conversations are just theoretical.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Ozric, on 17 September 2014 - 01:23 AM, said:

You can only have a problem with everybody wins if you think the reward scheme is some kind of competition. It should be scaled of course, and it is simply the level of the scaling that we are talking about here. Also, if the Clan pack reward mech was to get a 35% bonus then the IS pack reward mech should get it too as well as all the real golden mechs.

But you are right, I was rude to call you out for your financial planning. I can only apologise, it was early in the morning, but in my defence you were totally coming off as an elitist teenager. But we should both remember that PGI are not likely to change anything now whatever we do, and all these threads and conversations are just theoretical.

Your apology is accepted and appreciated, as most people wouldnt have. My financial planning is more based on how i get paid. So i know for say the Gold Dire Wolf I have I had to work two extra days in the field that month to pay for it. Same goes for the Gargoyle package, if I want it then I need to work an extra day in the field. Months where we are slow and I am in the shop all the time not generating field bonuses I dont buy a single thing as my salary takes care of basics and that is it. And right now to get the Gargoyle package and well due to being swamped at work and having no replacement, i get to work a set of days off thus bringing me to the legal limit here of 21 days in a row worked before a day off.

The reason why i have issues with that statement is because in RL™ nothing is ever fair. Every time i see that phrase it makes me cringe. We set people up to fail by using it, people think that the world owes them something, when in the end nobody is owed anything really. Yes i am a glass is 25% full type of person but due to some major setbacks early in life and which continue to come and bite me in the arse, it is just the reality of it.

That would be the reason why I come off like a "elitist teenager", as this attitude just get right under my skin due to the above saying. What people are asking for in MW:O with the rewards is a slippery slope of how to do it while not making previous purchases and gestures hollow. For the most part everyone puts money into the game, not everyone will get rewarded for it, it is the hard truth and fact of the matter. So a line has to be drawn, and usually the highest payers are pandered to, does that mean i like the idea? no not really. Do I support it? naw not really, but will work within it and keep doing what i do and once the game itself gets to me i will stop playing and putting money into it.

My statements still stand that each and everyone of these threads saying "i should get this" or "i should get that" for reasons, are people feeling jealous because others are able to afford it for whatever reason and they are unable to for whatever reasons. I feel for them as it sucks to be in that position (I was for a number of years and know what it is like, and i was making just over what we called the poverty line here), and do what I can for Clanmates when I can and usually with a crapton of protesting from them as nobody likes to admit they need help. Look at the backlash and sheer amount of people who were saying they would TK any gold mech on their team? That is the mentality i see in these threads, also the reason why i have only taken my (G) out a few times during PTS of the Clans. I even seen it during the PTS and initial start of the Clans, that is just not cool, not cool at all.

[Reitrix]

Figures. PGI offers a bonus for a top tier package and people who spend the bare minimum want everything.

The way i read it from the start was that the Wave 2 would not include the Mad Dog.
The way Russ wrote his post, it sounded more like the Mad Dog was originally intended to come out in a different pack.

I don't see what the fuss is about. People who shell out for the top tier packages are getting early access to a 'Mech that happens to come with a unique skin for doing so.
People who refuse to pay top dollar for the big package will get it when it launches for MC/CB, but without the bonus skin.

Problem exists .... Where?

[Lightning Kurita]

Reitrix, on 17 September 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

Figures. PGI offers a bonus for a top tier package and people who spend the bare minimum want everything.

The way i read it from the start was that the Wave 2 would not include the Mad Dog.
The way Russ wrote his post, it sounded more like the Mad Dog was originally intended to come out in a different pack.

I don't see what the fuss is about. People who shell out for the top tier packages are getting early access to a 'Mech that happens to come with a unique skin for doing so.
People who refuse to pay top dollar for the big package will get it when it launches for MC/CB, but without the bonus skin.

Problem exists .... Where?

Not everone can offer that much money -.- u didnt read my post did u?

[Dark DeLaurel]

Quote

Not everone can offer that much money -.- u didnt read my post did u?

And how is that everyone else's problem? How about you go read the replies to you saying you are a "poor student".