44 replies to this topic

[Quxudica]

I really love the look of this mech, something about it is very visually appealing. That said I don't seem to see them too often and I'm curious what people think about them. It's quite a bit of CBills to sink into a new mech, not to mention mastering them. So what is the majority opinion on them? Strong contender? Lemon in waiting? Nothing special?

I've been running a 2D2 Shadowhawk SRM brawler but I'm not overly tied to any one role.

[Modo44]

The Orion is OK. You get very varied loadout options and serious armor. The torso twists pretty fast for a sweet turret using big guns. For extra fun, you can do XL-based builds with stupid firepower for an IS mech. However, the mech can not jump nor ridge-snipe, is rather big, has small arms (weak side protection), and walks slowly. Due to those limitations, it is generally weaker than the Cataphract or the Jagermech. You need considerably better positioning (read: skill) to make it work.

Edited by Modo44, 18 September 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[UrsusMorologus]

Its a generalist platform. It can do some of everything, but its not as good at any one thing. If you can make that work to your advantage then its awesome mech. If you cant then it will suck.

[juxstapo]

Coooonversation

(long running discussion where I asked essentially the same thing)

Good luck if you decide to hop in 'em. I never achieved proper competence but other people do quite well in them, especially dedicated brawlers. And out of my 15 current heroes the Protector makes the list of "Not Practically Useless" ones.


...I mean, it isn't an Ember or an Ilya or Misery, but neither is it an Oxide, Grid Iron, or Fang.... (cue viable-hero argument )

To pull this back on topic (sorry if I derailed with that sentence there), Yes. The Orion is viable if you take the time to learn it's eccentricities. And I feel that "Looking Cool" is a perfectly legit reason to select a chassis.

[Koniving]

Consider it a faster mini-Atlas. Almost literally the same builds work for it (though more favorable for LRMs than an Atlas can be), for very light standard engines you get great spread, it spreads damage easily.

Non-mentioned hitbox quirks.
Left torso soaks damage more easily from the front.
Right torso soaks damage more easily from the side.
This is due to the shape of the mech where there is more 'this' than 'that' from the angles.

Keep a good mix of ranges.

Of the Orions, the K is always the hottest (lots of laser weapons and MWO's excessive short to medium range heat. Packing larges or a mix of larges and mediums isn't a bad idea though).
The M has the best starting and purchasing value.
The V and VA are the go-to for missiles.
The Protector is your everyday Atlas D. It's also a Dragon Slayer and Heavy Metal knockoff that still keeps functional energy weapons regardless of which side torso is destroyed. (Of the 3 I love my HM the most, Protector second, and Dragon Slayer is actually very disliked by me.)

Edited by Koniving, 18 September 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[FEK315]

I am coming from a Hunchy and Jenner to pilot the Protector, I have never used an Atlas so I feel I am at a complete loss as to being affective in the Orion.
Any tips?
BTW: I love the way it looks! Back in the days of MW 4 I used to pilot the Chimera almost exclusively only because it looked soooo cool. It was one of the worst mechs one could pilot but after a solid 7 months of just piloting that mech I did well with it.

[Bloodweaver]

Orion is a good 'mech, but not if you're into min-maxing. It's not good as a pure brawler, pure LRM boat, pure anything. What it is good at, is performing a variety of roles, and thus being of *some* assistance to *everyone*. The M is my favorite, as it most fully lives up to this characteristic.

[UrsusMorologus]

I play mine with idea of disallowing the enemy their comfort zones. If there's a sniper setting up somwhere, dont try to snipe back because you will lose that fight, instead get a lock and throw LRM15s, sooner or later he will move out of his position and then he can be killed on your terms instead of his. If the enemy has a missile boat at their rear, then get up close with your lasers and balistics where he is weak. One at a time, you move the line by using your flexibility to counter their strengths.

[Modo44]

Bloodweaver, on 19 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Orion is a good 'mech, but not if you're into min-maxing. It's not good as a pure brawler, pure LRM boat, pure anything. What it is good at, is performing a variety of roles, and thus being of *some* assistance to *everyone*.

I like this summary. Though you may do well by ignoring one weapon system (either of: no gun, minimal energy, no missiles), the general purpose thing rings very true.

[The Trumpet of Gabriel]

I would say that certain variants can make very evil brawlers...not the best...but still effective. The VA with 2 mL, ac20, and srm 20 can wreck face up close. The Protector can brawl well in a variety of configurations as can the K. The key is to not try and do it all by yourself...I guess consider it a strong support brawler if there is such a thing.

Edited by Sword of Morning, 19 September 2014 - 09:04 AM.

[FEK315]

Tonight I am working with a Protector AC20, SRM4+arty 2ML and PPC. 300engine

[FEK315]

Okay I found a cool loadout I saw in some thread...
2LL, 20LRM+art, 300std, 2mgs and Flamer. LOL! its fun as all get out. the Flamer is the frosting.

I was thinking of Eliteing out my Orion What is the next one I should get?

Edited by FEK315, 19 September 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[Escef]

An Orion with a large XL makes for a good heavy skirmisher. A 360XL moves this bad boy along at a very respectable a clip, almost as fast as a Timby. Or you could use the stock 300 standard and pack some serious guns (the AC20 is quite the killer cannon).

I can't recommend using a smaller engine than the 300, the hit to your speed combined with the unexemplary hitboxes will probably end you more often than not.

[IraqiWalker]

FEK315, on 19 September 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Okay I found a cool loadout I saw in some thread...
2LL, 20LRM+art, 300std, 2mgs and Flamer. LOL! its fun as all get out. the Flamer is the frosting.

I was thinking of Eliteing out my Orion What is the next one I should get?

They are all solid choices actually.

I would recommend the M if you want an XL equipped one. The K for a good Protector +2 Energy points, and the V or VA(my preferred of the 2) for missile duty (2xLRM 10+ 2xLRM15 + MLs + XL 300 or 295, and 13tons of ammo)

[LiGhtningFF13]

In general make sure that you stay close to your group. I use the Orion mech as a supporter, means long range energy weapons or missile slots for lrms.

[Voivode]

Here's a lovely article about the Pocket Battleship, used by Germany in the interwar to WWII era. The Pocket Battleship brought much of the firepower of a regular battleship with slightly better maneuverability at a lower cost. It wasn't quite as good as your standard battleship.

The Orion is a Pocket Atlas. I enjoy mine, not a bad mech to own for some fun times.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

juxstapo, on 18 September 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

Coooonversation

(long running discussion where I asked essentially the same thing)

Follow that link. Follow it. There's a lot of decent discussion there, some very good points, and I (and I think at least one other person) did a complete breakdown of what all the different ON1s can do compared to one another, and what they are thus good for. (Mine's on page 5.)

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 20 September 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[Tahribator]

Orion is, in pretty much every sense, a mini-Atlas. Similar number of hardpoints mounted waist-high, ST heavy hitboxes condemning it to STD engines and the resulting overall sluggishness. It makes up for this by having enough free tonnage to bring the big guns, whether that is AC's, missiles or lasers.

Since it has low-mounted hardpoints(except M hardpoints it LT for standard variants and that high mounted E for the Protector), you have to expose yourself fully to the enemy to utilize your firepower. Combined with its inherent sluggishness, this means bad damage trades if you make a mistake or get caught unprepared. As I've said, Orions tend to take damage in STs. This means they soak a lot of damage before going down. There will be times when a single Orion can tank a whole team for a lot of time. On the flip side, this means you get disarmed really fast.

This is why it makes sense to make them in-your-face brawlers, and indeed they're awesome at this. Especially the K and the Protector are heat-efficient monsters at very close ranges. Again though, positioning and timing is very important with the Orion. A bad move and you lose half of your firepower easily. You can read this for further info.

They can also make decent LRM boats, since they have a lot of tubes along with free tonnage and exposure is not a problem. What they suck at however, is being an "old meta" PPC/AC snipers. I've seen some people(looking at you Edmiester) slap an XL in an Orion, kit it out with 2xAC5 and 2xPPC's and proceed to dying to ST loss at the first contact, and promptly concluding that the Orion is ****. If you're not going to boat LRMs and remove yourself from frontlines, then STD is mandatory, period. STD300 is the sweetspot which gives you about 32 tons of free space with nearly full armor.

The only variant that can also decently snipe/hillhump is the Protector, thanks to that high mounted E hardpoint in its left torso. It can mount Gauss+ERPPC combos with spare ML's and lots of heatsinks.

Overall, it's a trick 'Mech to pilot. It has a lot of damage potential and tanks like a beast, but it's hurt by its hitboxes and sluggishness. If it could mount an XL375 like the Timber or the Victor and get away with that survivability-wise, the situation would be very different.

[orion0117]

Can't add much to Tahribator's post, it's all inclusive of my experience with this mech.

I use the XL to speed up twisting, though. I don't like the sluggishness and consider the XL a tradeoff. I figure the XL buys me a few more shots and damage spread across the whole torso.

Just a story, to support the below quote, last night I got the jump on a fresh Misery. I could tell he wasn't expecting me coming out of the woodwork. He went down and a few of his buddies got a taste before they took me out.

I run XL325, 2 Med Lasers, 2 AC/5, 2 ASRM6.

Tahribator, on 21 September 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

This is why it makes sense to make them in-your-face brawlers, and indeed they're awesome at this.

[Malleus011]

Both my -1K and -P are fitted with Std 300 engines and an AC/20. All other weapons on the build support that.

As other have said, it's tougher to do well in an Orion than say a Jager or Phract. It can be done, but it takes more work.