31 replies to this topic

[kramxel]

Hi,

I'm new to MWO, coming from WOT, so I'm familiar with most f2p mmo concepts. I've just finished my cadet 25 games wtih around 10,5 Million C-Bills, so I'm at the point I need to buy a mech.

Almost all of my cadet games were done using the Blackjack, and I've certainly found it fitting to my abilities, even though it severely lacks some sort of long range weaponry (AC20 3MLS BJ-1C).
I really like the concept behind the BJ with high mounted weapons, a mix of ballistic and energy and a quite compact build.

I've tried other trial mechs in the training grounds and always had a problem with widely spread weapon mounts, so I definitely value the compact builds to match my lack of skill in that department.

Having said all this, and before someone sugests the obvious (buy a BJ!), I came to know MWO trough sidestrafe's youtube channel, and having watched him and many others playing a Raven 3L, I feel it would certainly fit my playing style.

Unfortunately there's no way I can play one before paying, and the 3L build is a little of my reach in therms of C-Bills (almost 14M).
On the other hand, if I do buy a BJ, it would take ages to raise that kind of sum again... nevermind the need to grind the BJ mechs.

So, any advice?

[Soul Tribunal]

If you like the hit and run, and compact weapon arrays, the Cicada is actually a very decent mech for this.
They are lighter armored than what you might be used to (being 5 tons lighter than a BJ) but are faster, and if you get the 3M Variant you will get ECM, which makes a world of difference.

Now if you prefer to do more damage and have more armor the Shadowhawks have great hardpoints and good weapon choices.

That all being said, I use all 6 Blackjack variants (Champion and Hero + 4 Regular Chassis). They are great little killing machines, you can outfit some models with Dual AC2 or AC5 which will give you that range you desire, or if you get one of he variants that uses Energy, you can opt for PPC's or ER LL's.
As well the BJ Excels at poking its body over hills and firing in support, exposing very little of it to do so, which increases survivability.
I personally think they are great Mechs, and if you want some build advice on them I am more than happy to help.

-ST

[Turist0AT]

I recomend Firestarters(FS9-K) or a nice heavy moneymaker like Cataphract or Orion. CTF-3D is a perfect first mech as it got the tonnage to try out a lot of stuff and is a solid chassi(except gorilla arms) to grow in. But you were into BJ so how about Jägers?

Raven 3L might be nice with ECM, but its not a must. You can use almost any mech for pika-boo sniping.

Edited by Turist0AT, 25 September 2014 - 05:15 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

If you like the BJ and want a Raven 3L for it's ECM, the Cicada is certainly an option. It has an ECM variant and packs it's weapons all pretty close together. Here's Phil "Sean Lang" making the Cicada look good:



It can also take ballistic weapons but cannot run an XL engine with an AC20 like the BJ can(the Cicada ballistic variants have them in the torso). The Cicada 3M costs even more than the Raven, though, although it benefits from already having Double Heat Sinks and a larger XL engine equipped.

Unfortunately anyone playing the grind without investing some money for premium time, a hero mech, mech sales, etc is always going to find themselves wanting more than they can afford. For a mech where you will be spending a lot of time in the cockpit, you might want something a little more durable than a Cicada or BJ. Medium mechs tend to be good for mechwarriors on a budget, and also tend to have shorter queue times for slightly more matches per hour.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 25 September 2014 - 04:58 AM.

[Dagon Zur]

Your first chassis leveling will take a while (you must buy, upgrade endo and DHS, and fully elite 3 variants) and you could find Blackjacks limited in tonnage and variety in the long run.

Shadowhawks (at 55t) offer much more flexibility in builds and roles than BJs. and they have enough tonnage for decent ballistic, energy, missile, or mixed builds. They feel sluggish at start but improve a lot with elite efficiencies.

SHD-5M is a great starter, it has DHS and XL275 engine already installed. With a right loadout it is the perfect early C-Bill grinder. Other SHD variants come with STD275 engine (you need STD for AC20 or pure brawler builds).

Do you like the trial Shadowhawk? Typical "owner's" SHD has similar feel but with more speed, agility and heat efficiency which comes with leveling 3 variants.

Cheers!

[Clownwarlord]

First question I have to ask is are you wanting to be active in Community Warfare when it comes out? If so then you have to ask your self; clan or inner sphere? The two being different in a way that it will depend on which you choose as to which you can use in community warfare (or so I have been informed of Clan 10 vs 12 Ineer Sphere, Clan vs Clan, and Inner Spher vs Inner Sphere). Once you decide that look at the mechs for each side and decide on which mech best suits your play style and how it can be used in team orienated play.

Now if you have no wish to be apart of Community Warfare then you can just look to what mech best suits your play style. With it you will learn mech builds that also fit the role you wish to fill and how things work with matching upgrades, modules, weapons, and other equipment to make it the best mech possible. When that is done you go onto the next mech you wish to master. How do you master a mech? you buy 3 varients of the same chassis and then you grind their exp for that mech like you would for exp to get the next tank in WOT. You will cash your exp in the skills tab and mech that you have the experience on. Once you have all three varients to elite you then only have to master which mech you wish to keep and once it is mastered sell off the other two. Remmeber to strip it of all the equipment, engines, weapons, and so on before selling.

If you have questions Starship troopers are more then willing to help you get aclimated to MWO, just check out our website: www.starship-troopers.enjin.com Anyone and everyone is welcomed to register and if you wish to join the SST unit in game then message clownwarlord for friend request and I will get you a unit invite asap.

From what it also sounds like you are having an issue grinding C-Bills, and so here are a few tips:
- If able buy one premium mech you love playing (try out their chassis first just to make sure you don't waste your real cash) and if you can't do this don't worry I have other tips.
- For those who can't "buy" hero mechs, build a missile boat off of the Stalker 5M or Battlemaster 1S or one of the Catapults. In doing so use lrms to touch every mech in the match when possible and win. By doing so your kill assist bonus will be great, if you have a spot bonus with lrms, and tag bonus you just compile the C-Bills. Missile boats are also one of the easiest mechs to use and play in game when you might fast some nasty players.
- Join a group, joining a group the memebrs can help you win matches in group drops and tech you C-Bill saving tricks through out the game.

Edited by clownwarlord, 25 September 2014 - 05:50 AM.

[Bront]

The Cicada 3M comes with an XL engine stock, so that helps it quite a bit as it can be used in the others as well, but I don't think it's a great first mech, as it's bigger and slower than some lights, and if you don't have light skills developed, it dies quickly.

BJs aren't a bad idea, but you'll want an XL engine at some point, and that will cost you a lot (though an X2l35 isn't too bad, but isn't very universal).

One of the better starting mechs is the Shadowhawk 5M. It comes with a 275XL engine that's useful in a lot of mechs (An XL280 is slightly better, but not that big of a deal when you're starting off), is a useable build out the gate, and comes with DHS and Endo already installed, so all you need are any new weapons.

Once you've played around with that mech for a bit, you can either get more Shadowhawks, or you can move on to Ravens. With the XL275, you have an ideal engine for the 2X and 4X, and a good 3L engines.

Eventually, after playing a while, you'll have enough engines for multiple mechs, but till then, sharing an engine or two is fine.

Hope that helps.

[kramxel]

Firs of all, I would like to say thanks for all the replies! It's great feedback and it keeps pushing to find more and more.

I tried to make a build of what I think would fit my playstyle, using the BJ-1 and putting some ERLLs, and came up with this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3928547f6053b7d

It would allow me to use those ERLLs to engage targets at range, and I'm using that AC5 as a support for the MLs and also as a heat management alternative.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

Soul Tribunal, on 25 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

That all being said, I use all 6 Blackjack variants (Champion and Hero + 4 Regular Chassis). They are great little killing machines, you can outfit some models with Dual AC2 or AC5 which will give you that range you desire, or if you get one of he variants that uses Energy, you can opt for PPC's or ER LL's.
As well the BJ Excels at poking its body over hills and firing in support, exposing very little of it to do so, which increases survivability.
I personally think they are great Mechs, and if you want some build advice on them I am more than happy to help.
-ST

That's what I love about them, that hill peeking ability, which I feel is vital for mediums in MWO, especially considering the ammount of maps with hills.

I also preffer hit and run tactics, instead of DPS ones.
That's why I'm excluding all heavies and assault mechs for now, as my ability to read the map (and I'm just starting to know most of them) would hinder my ability to not only affect the game, but also to react to enemy moves (which I think is one of my strongpoints).
In that respect, a light and a medium are more forgiving.

Another advantage I've found with the BJ is when I'm forced to fight corners (especially on cramped maps like the industrial one), given the compact build of the mech, I'm able to take advantage and am able to destroy a lot of mechs with long arms.


The Cicada seems like a good mech, but the mounts seem too cramped and limiting, forcing you to always face the target, this doesn't seem such an issue on the BJ since it's a little more wide.

I did try the Shadowhawk, but those extra tons do make themselves felt. It also fails to be a great hillshooter which is the playstyle I developed in the BJ. They do seem more flexible in their builds and playstyle, but right now, given my lack of experience I'll try to stick with what I know.

[kramxel]

clownwarlord, on 25 September 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

First question I have to ask is are you wanting to be active in Community Warfare when it comes out? If so then you have to ask your self; clan or inner sphere?

As I'm just starting, I don't even know what will be my role/investment in the game, so it's hard to tell.

Even though I played some MW3 and was a fan of the animated series, I'm not too familiar with the whole MW universe.

clownwarlord, on 25 September 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

From what it also sounds like you are having an issue grinding C-Bills, and so here are a few tips:
- If able buy one premium mech you love playing (try out their chassis first just to make sure you don't waste your real cash) and if you can't do this don't worry I have other tips.
- For those who can't "buy" hero mechs, build a missile boat off of the Stalker 5M or Battlemaster 1S or one of the Catapults. In doing so use lrms to touch every mech in the match when possible and win. By doing so your kill assist bonus will be great, if you have a spot bonus with lrms, and tag bonus you just compile the C-Bills. Missile boats are also one of the easiest mechs to use and play in game when you might fast some nasty players.
- Join a group, joining a group the memebrs can help you win matches in group drops and tech you C-Bill saving tricks through out the game.

Right now I really don't have a grasp for how much C-Bills are expected and what is good earning or not.
In my 25 cadet games, including 20 using the free premium day, I made those 10,5M C-Bills.

What kind of turnover is expected on a non-premium account?

Edited by kramxel, 25 September 2014 - 06:07 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

I personally do enjoy my BJs, although I got really comfortable with dual PPC before the PPC slowdown. You're right that it excels at going hull-down behind a hill much moreso than the 55 tonners while also being pretty quick & nimble. It seems you really have your mind made up. Best of luck

[Kifli]

hi I have the same question. I own jm6-s and so far the only mech I like ( I like ballistics over all ,gun placement and tremendous flexibility of the mech)I owed hunchbacks (but sold them after introduction of cataphacts) I owned gauscat but never really liked it I owned a lrmcat but again because of ecm bs it don't have much sense play lrm boats now days I had cicada and again never really get used to it also I am playing from eu so it mean 150 ping and also I have bad fps so fast mechs are good as dead for me. I still have free centurion ( it give me some fun whit zombie build but didn't find any other build that work for me) and free thunderbolt ( so far I didnt found a bild that I like) because of huge amount of assaults my jager get over gunned every time so I feel like have several options : move to mediums or grind some more for assault. But which one ? it is worth wait for more cbills clan mechs ?

[Soul Tribunal]

You can poke hills in the Shadow Hawk, it just takes a little more practice. Since the majority of its firepower is housed on the left side upper body, you still limit your exposure. It is just not as agile as a BlackJack with an XL engine, and that can sometimes make the difference.
I run y SHD-5M with 2 AC5's and LRM's (Backed up by medium lasers). I can Ridge snipe with it, and Dual AC5's Hurt after a while, or if its too hot to do that, I can lob LRM's for indirect fire, something a BJ Cannot accomplish.

Right now the most successful BJ Build I have is my BJ-1C. I run Dual AC5's, Dual ML's and a Torso Mounted ERLL. It has an XL engine so that is where I save the weight (Although yes, it makes me more vulnerable, just teaches me to be cautious).

If you like them, the BJ's can be great fun.
And if you want a cheap credit earning machine, buy the Hero Mech (Arrow). I run my Hero with Dual AC2's, XL engine, 3 ML's and 2 machine Guns. You are fast, so can re-position, and have enough firepower to hurt things as needed.

My thoughts at least,

-ST

[xeromynd]

Much like the second post, I also use all the Blackjacks. My favorite mech hands down.

Here's some builds (the ones I use) which work very well. All of these require upgrading to Double Heat Sinks, Endo Steel Structure, Normal Armor, and they are all heat efficient. All have an XL engine to be able to fit more weapons & ammo, but if you can roll your damage and torso twist, you'll be fine

BJ-A (close range) -

• 6 Machine Gun // 2 Large Pulse Laser // 1 Medium Laser // Jump Jets // XL 235
  
• This is good for close range, the Machine Guns tear up internal armor, while the Pulse Lasers take away outer armor quite nicely.

BJ-3 (sniping)

• 3 ER Large Laser // XL 235 // 1 Jump Jet
  
• Great for sniping. As fast as you can get with any Blackjack except the 1X, and can jump. Good manuverability. Equip the Adv Zoom module and you've got yourself a sniper. The heat penalty for firing all three ER LLs at once isn't so bas either. Just remember to put the XL 235, 3 LLS and one JJ in, and PACK the rest with double heatsinks.
  
• You can also run 2 PPCs and 2 Medium Lasers instead, but I havent since they slowed down the PPC speed, makes sniping difficult. Also 2 PPCs will be hotter

BJ-1 (long range w/ punch)

• 1 Gauss Rifle (w/ 3 1/2 Tons of ammo) // 3 Medium Lasers // XL 235
  
• Gauss rifle is pretty much the ultimate sniping weapon, 15 Damage high velocity rounds. Get Adv. Zoom and you're golden. No jump jets.

BJ-1(C) (short range w/ punch)

• 1 AC20 (4.5 T Ammo) // 3 Medium Lasers
  
• Similar to the above build, but with less range and more firepower. Get up close, slap them in the face with your AC20 & 3 MLs, back off, rinse, repeat. This mech has the capacity to deal awesome damage if you stay alive. No jump jets.

BJ-1X (short range fast harasser)

• This is where I get a little crazy: 8 Small Pulse Lasers // Small Pulse Laser Cooldown Module // Small Pulse Laser Range Module // XL 295
  
• Your range is very short, but as long as you play with the team, and push in at a good time, you can get insane DPS. Small Pulse Lasers are also not affected (like most other lasers) by 'ghost heat' (Certain weapons have a limit as to how many you can fire simultaneously, without incurring a heat penalty) No jump jets. This blackjack is the only one that can mount up to a 295 rating engine, thus, this is the fastest Blackjack.
  
• If you're not too crazy about the short range thing. You can just as easily equip up to 8 Medium Lasers, drop the engine size a bit, and fit more heatsinks in.

BJ-1DC

• 2 UAC 5's // 3 Medium Lasers
  
• This build is a little more DPS-centric. You'll need to expose yourself for longer, works best when the rest of the team is pushing with you.

Edited by xeromynd, 25 September 2014 - 06:31 AM.

[Bront]

kramxel, on 25 September 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

I did try the Shadowhawk, but those extra tons do make themselves felt. It also fails to be a great hillshooter which is the playstyle I developed in the BJ. They do seem more flexible in their builds and playstyle, but right now, given my lack of experience I'll try to stick with what I know.

To be fair, the trail Shadowhawk isn't that great anymore due to the JJ nerf (it was a poptart build).

But go for the BJs. Nothing wrong with that. Play what you want and be happy

Only other thought is Jagers, as the DD or S comes with an XL engine that you can use in all 3, they play like BJs only heavier. BJs are cheaper though.

[kramxel]

One point most have been pointing out, that I really hadn't given much thought is engine adpatability across diferent mech types.
Given that engines represent the majour investments in a mech, perhaps I should buy one that would serve me across different types, and not just the other mech variants.

[Bront]

kramxel, on 25 September 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

One point most have been pointing out, that I really hadn't given much thought is engine adpatability across diferent mech types.
Given that engines represent the majour investments in a mech, perhaps I should buy one that would serve me across different types, and not just the other mech variants.

Yup.

Standard engines are pretty cheep, but 250s, 260s, 270s, 275s, and 300s are pretty common. Less common but still usefull are 200s and 225s.

XLs? XL255 (weighs the same as the XL250), XL260, XL280 (Weighs the same as the XL275), XL295, and XL300 are all very popular. XL320/325 and XL350/360 (different weights, but often used in similar builds) are also useful. The XL235 is only good for BJs and Vindicators (and maybe Commandos). Most other mechs that might mount it will probably prefer at least the XL255 in most cases, or use specialized XL engines (200/210 for Commandos, 170 for Locusts)

For example, I own 3 or 4 XL280s, at least 2 XL255s and an XL260, at least 3 XL300s, an XL320, an XL350 and and 2 XL360s. I also own several standard engines between 200-320. It's given me a lot of flexibility across my 30+ mechs I own.

That's probably the only disadvantage to BJs, their engines are fairly unique.

[Vlad Striker]

If you want something fast and powerful look at this: HBK-4P(C). HBK is a good teacher and cheap. Also unlock and buy radar deprivation module.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I think starting with the blackjack would be a good idea. I personally have the Hero, -1X, and -1. I had the -3 I think it was but sold it for redundancy.

If you ever think of going with Heavies, the Jagermech is like the big brother to the BJ.

Forgot to add, you get to keep the mech XP you earned with the trial mech, so start with the BJ-1! You might be able to unlock basics already.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 25 September 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Anassi]

You don't technically have to buy a mech now. Even with your Cadet bonus completed you can still run the trial mechs to get the necessary funds for the neat Sniper Raven (RVN-3L, 2x ERLL, ECM, XL295). Since you are about 3.5M Cbills of it will take you some thirty-odd matches to get the remaining cash. The 3L is a ton of fun, a really nasty skirmisher / sniper and I absolutely love the look of the little chickens.

They come with a rather crappy XL210 stock though. It's not exactly a great engine but it can be used for a *very* cheap Raven RVN-4X build: The Boom Chicken (RVN-4X, 1x AC-20, XL 210). You will need to basic out the other Ravens anyway and the Boom Chicken in total will cost you less than 4M Cbills if you reuse the 3L stock engine. It is more of a troll build but probably the cheapest halfway-functional mech you can run.

So if you want it - go for it!

Edited by Anassi, 25 September 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[Divine Decoy]

Has no one mentioned to you that Stormcrows are like supped up Cicadas? I mean, you can do it all in a Clan stormcrow it seams. Maybe hold off a week and buy that