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What You're Likely To See With The New Gamemode Change

Balance Gameplay Mode

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#1 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:31 PM

TLDR: While gamemode voting may have been a community decision, I think we'll live to regret it.


So PGI has now rearranged the priorities of the matchmaker by moving gamemode selection into a secondary consideration. Matchmaker 3.1 will now roll a virtual die weighted by the mode preference of the players involved. It might pick your preference; there's a 1/24 chance, assuming each player votes for only one mode).

Just as an FYI, PGI did not just force this issue upon us. Russ asked the community and we voted in favor of it. If you didn't see the poll, you missed the boat and should probably be more involved with the community than you are. You have no excuse now that PGI is polling the community for so many decisions. This is your game; decide its course.

The reason that Russ offered us this option is because it might narrow the ELO gaps between opposing sides in matches. MM3.1 has to weigh a whole bunch of factors - ELO, gamemode, weight class, wait queues - in a small player base, and the result is that there must be tradeoffs. It was theorized by PGI that moving gamemode selection aside might result in more even matches. So there was solid reasoning here.

Now that I'm done defending PGI...

What we're likely to see instead is very little change at all.

ELO is a scapegoat. It is the most obvious and the most understandable scapegoat to pick when you're frustrated over getting rolled 12-2 over and over (even though most matches I see feature 12-5 at worst these days). But I'm willing to bet that it has very little to do with stomps. (And when you view the matter in light of the ultimate test of popular opinion - volume of forum griping - it's pretty clear that things have been better since July. The volume of skewed match screenshots is waaaaaay down.)

MechWarrior is a beast that has a nature. Its nature is stomps. We are piloting slow, large targets through wide-open spaces against 12 enemy mechs. Mistakes are unforgiving. Once two mechs on your side are down, the enemy has fewer targets to worry about, and its fire focusing becomes more efficient. Therefore, a "snowball effect" is created that simply doesn't exist in games like competitive Counter-Strike. 12vs12 games with game dynamics like MWO's invariably tend towards stomps, and creating the conditions for an "even" game are very difficult and usually artificial.

Additionally, the matchmaker's inability to match by weapons loadout ensures all kinds of wonky outcomes. The solo queue might toss five LRM boaters onto the same team on Caustic - watch them rain death and destruction. Or it might toss three DDCs onto the same team on River City - good luck targeting anyone. Or perhaps a team somehow winds up with four dual gauss boaters from various chassis - disproportionate amount of one-shot deaths. There's no way to control this, and not even tonnage matching could do so. And so the defending team may not have (statistically, probably WON'T have) the right equipment, cover, or temperament to handle whatever loadout bias the matchmaker has handed it. And since players are no longer assured of getting the mode they've optimized their mech for, it's frankly easy to see stomps staying right where they are.

With this gamemode change, what we're likely to see is stomps continue at nearly their present rate. Karl has already told us that ELO gaps had narrowed by like 40% since the last round of MM tweaks. I truly believe that ELO matches could be PERFECTLY even and stomps would still occur on a regular basis, simply because there are so many other forces driving them. So the change, I'm betting, will result in more even data but less visible results, all the while pissing off players who enjoyed their freedom to pick the game mode.

I realize that we voted in favor of it. However, I still believe in the vocal minority - the dynamic that the most frequent forum voters are likely to be the dissatisfied and those jonesing for a change. I also fear that the poll contains an inherent bias towards Skirmish players, who are likely to be satisfied with the sacrifice of gamemode preference since their Skirmish will tend to be most heavily weighted anyway.

My opinion: I don't like this change. In order to benefit the game, the gamemode tweak needs to bring back at least as many people as it drives away, and that's a big gamble for the above reasons. It also trods on a fundamental gamer freedom. While it's imperative that we remember that this change will not PROHIBIT Conquest or Assault, I think it's safe to say that we'll see it considerably less. Finally, it takes an option that was basically already available to the players (picking "Any" for your gamemode) and forces it on everyone.

Over the next few weeks, we as a community need to be greedy for two things: the ELO data from the matchmaker change and the feeling of whether stomps have been reduced. And if the ELO data improves significantly while the feeling of even play does not, then we've proven something: that stomps are being generated by things other than ELO.

And I hope that should this change prove to drive more people off than it brings back (how many people really left over frequent stomps?), I hope that PGI will be willing to reverse the change despite the results of the poll (maybe have a followup poll). Or, potentially, just remove it from solo queue, since the intended target of this feature seems to have been the group queue.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 07 October 2014 - 02:23 PM.


#2 DEMAX51

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:38 PM

First well-written post I've seen about this today. Good arguments, not inflammatory - what the hell are you doing on these forums?

#3 Pyrrho

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:40 PM

I am not so sure about that 1/24 probability, but otherwise... yeah.

#4 DEMAX51

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:42 PM

View PostPyrrho, on 07 October 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

I am not so sure about that 1/24 probability, but otherwise... yeah.

Yeah, at minimum it would be a 2/27 chance, actually because each mode starts with one vote inherently, regardless of the votes players cast.

#5 -Natural Selection-

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:43 PM

Our group get assault, going straight to cap. Get conquest, holding theta. Tthat's it, nothing else.

#6 Kutfroat

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:44 PM

in no online game ever the majority has read the forums. so all decisions "for" the community out of polls in the forum is most likely to cater towards the hardcore/competitive/tryhards. the forum is most likely the minority!

#7 Pyrrho

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:47 PM

View PostDEMAX51, on 07 October 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Yeah, at minimum it would be a 2/27 chance, actually because each mode starts with one vote inherently, regardless of the votes players cast.


My brain saw 1/24 and immediately started throwing up probability alarms... 24 players; assume each chooses only 1 out of 3 possible modes:

"Best" case: all 24 players choose the same mode
"Worst" case: even distribution of mode selection (8 for Assault, 8 for Skirmish, 8 for Conquest)

Odds of getting your selection? ----ACADEMIA FORGOTTEN---

#8 Kutfroat

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:50 PM

4 out of 7 games were skirmish. skirmish is unchecked, so 2/3 gamemodes active and i get more than 50% of the unchecked mode. just dc´ed out of the last one. i´m done.

#9 Mystere

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:58 PM

Well, am I glad I am off to another mini-vacation. As such, I'll just let the house burn while I enjoy myself. If PGI is paying attention, they already know what my plans are with regard to this unfortunate change anyway.

#10 endevite

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:58 PM

I think for important changes like this that effect everyone, it should have gone out in a mailer making notice of the possible change requesting a vote so the masses would have been aware. Not everyone forum humps constantly to spot these short term votes.

Incentive to push those into doing such a vote, a simple 100k cbill reward would likely be suffice enough to get the greedy to go click and vote.

Edited by endevite, 07 October 2014 - 12:58 PM.


#11 Bartholomew bartholomew

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:01 PM

You could always upset the skirmish players and set your preference to conquest only. :ph34r:

#12 Mawai

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:06 PM

I generally agree with you. I don't think that the removal of game mode preference will really improve the quality of matches in most cases. A narrowing of Elo spread is great ... but whether we will actually see any noticeable change in game outcomes remains to be seen. I think that is the main reason the poll was in favour of this change ... the players don't have the data to assess whether it will make any practical difference at all ... and the people who should have the data (PGI) appear to believe that it will.

However, this will mean that some people will be forced to play game modes that they despise. Over 20% of the player base voted no .. for how many this will be a game breaker remains to be seen ... but there are some folks who strongly dislike certain game modes and they will likely get quite upset when forced to play them.

It is also pretty clear that this change has not been communicated to the entire community. I think PGI could really use an in-client messaging system to distribute information like this.

#13 Osric Lancaster

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:06 PM

"Would you give up the ability to guarantee the game mode you play for an increased chance of a more competitive match?"

If anyone was willing to do that, then wouldn't they simply select 'any' in the launch mode selector? Matches weren't "more competitive" before game mode selection was an option, anyway. Why is PGI so bad with the concept of giving players options?

And yes, asking the forums for a democratic vote at this point is going to get dumb results.
The only groups left on the forums are the Stockholm Syndroms and the Schadenfreudes.

3/3/3/3 is still dumb and shouldn't exist.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 07 October 2014 - 01:11 PM.


#14 Roland

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:07 PM

Forcing people to play garbage game modes they SPECIFICALLY DO NOT WANT TO PLAY will force people to stop playing your game.

How PGI can fail to grasp such an obvious idea is mind blowing.

#15 orcrist86

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:08 PM

Russ said you get a frequency distribution, so each option will have a max frequency of 24, and the die will get as big as 75.



Examples

24 players vote: 24 for assault, 16 for conquest, and 20 for skirmish

assault=24+1
conquest=16+1
skirmish=20+1

In this case the die is 63 sided (60 vote +3 default--yes you can not vote at all)

25/63= assault 39.68% chance
17/63= conquest 26.98%
21/63= skirmish 33.33%

If no one votes, then the chance is the same for all if no one votes for a specific mode, but all for the other 2 then you get
1/51= unliked mode 1.9%
Other modes= 49% each

#16 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:14 PM

View PostOsric Lancaster, on 07 October 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

"Would you give up the ability to guarantee the game mode you play for an increased chance of a more competitive match?"

If anyone was willing to do that, then wouldn't they simply select 'any' in the launch mode selector?


Another excellent point.

#17 Xyroc

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:15 PM

I normally pick all anyways but forcing every game mode on everyone is not the right move IMO.

#18 Alienized

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:19 PM

well.. DO A BARREL ROLL!!

edit: dices are outdated. so 1980 :ph34r:
havent played after patch since my toxicity increased rapidly after tournament ended.
but am one of those guys that dont mind conquest at all. actually its a great thing for tactical thinking people.
skirmish most of times is meeeeh......
but then ppl complain about not having enough game modes and scratch conquest out O.o
dahell...
imho just remove preferences, remove that new system and just leave that PLAY button alone...
life is easier then :D

Edited by Aliisa White, 07 October 2014 - 01:22 PM.


#19 Artgathan

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:19 PM

To build on the point of how the MM has been giving out more even matches: another thing PGI could do to help reduce the perception of "stomps" is to display the percentage of remaining health each surviving mech has at the end of the match on the EOR screen. I think part of the problem is that people don't realize how close the match was to becoming 7 - 12 instead of 2 - 12 (if only a few more triggers had been pulled).

That said, stomps will always happen. They happen in every game.

#20 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:19 PM

View PostDEMAX51, on 07 October 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Yeah, at minimum it would be a 2/27 chance, actually because each mode starts with one vote inherently, regardless of the votes players cast.


Yes, yes, you're absolutely right. Just using a convenient example without wanting to bury people in math at the beginning. :)





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