14 replies to this topic

[Monroe the Pinhead]

Hello

Recently i have just bought my first light a firestarter k and am loving every match that being said I've had some really good matches and some really bad ones. i'm pretty sure in a few i pissed off my lance mates so if any read this i'm sorry bout that. anyways im starting to kinda get the hang of it but i have some real specific questions i couldn't find else where or in a concise answer. so i'll dive right in.

What upgrades should i use? i already have DHS and Endosteel.
What type of engine does a light work best with? im using my catas XL280.
How should i take advantage of the firestarters mobility?
How to scout and should i go solo sometimes?
How can i help my lance?
When should i engage a mech and which ones should i avoid?
Should i use the AMS and or Beagle Active Probe? others have said since i can outrun the LRMs so i don't need one.

so in a nutshell How do i survive in a light?
If this is already a thread i apologize for the taking of your time i just couldn't find it. Thank you in advance for your advice.
- A Pinhead

[3xnihilo]

I am not as experienced as some pilots but lights are what I know best so I will take a shot here. Upgrades are going to be dependent upon what your load out is and what you are trying to accomplish.

Lights always want xl engines, speed is life. Usually maxed engine or close to max. The xl 280 is pretty good for the firestarter, but you will probably end up upgrading to the 295 if you really like them and decide to master them.
Learn to use the jumpjets to make tighter turns and experiment with different numbers more jj equals higher faster. Higher is not always important but gaining altitude over an enemy mechs head or a building faster is often the difference between life and death. Lots of people run 1 or 2 jj. I like them so I usually try to run as many as possible.

Firestarters are great escort mechs find a heavy or an assault and stay close by. Focus fire on his targets and chase away lights and mediums trying to harass him. Firestarters are a little tough to scout in without ecm, I don't prefer to run off by myself so I look for another light mech with ecm and hang with them while they scout. Two or three lights can be very deadly working together. Carry a uav when you scout. It will give you lots of bonuses and help the team immensely.

Learning when to engage and when not to is tough. Look for distracted targets, critically damaged targets or solo slow targets (dire wolf). Always lock targets and aim at damaged components. BAP helps wih this if you have the extra tonnage.
I don't use ams on light mechs because I can usually find cover. Some people like it to help support the team though. (Your ams helps knock down missiles headed toward friends).

Never stop moving and watch out for ac40 and dual gauss any things

Ps I am using my phone please excuse typos

Edited by 3xnihilo, 21 October 2014 - 07:07 PM.

[UrsusMorologus]

Firestarter isnt a scout mech. Without ECM you will get seen whenever somebody looks in your general direction, then you will get swarmed and killed if you arent in a bigger group. Its better to use it as a highly-mobile response / defense mech. Hang around the heavies and assaults and when they start shooting something you go around the side and start ankle-biting on the enemy. Lights are also good for capturing control points in the new Conquest maps, run to one and sit there for a few seconds, if trouble shows up you use your speed to get away from it. Only attack in packs.

XL engines are smaller and lighter so you can carry a larger one for more speed. Personally I dont use anything bigger than 255 in my ultralights because I cant control the weapons any faster than that. You dont need BAP unless you are carrying streaks, however it can be useful so if you have the free tonnage go ahead and equip it. AMS is wasted on lights, but if you are going to be an escort it will be helpful to your buddies.

Which firestarter are you using at the moment and what is its loadout?

[Commodore Perspicuous]

Monroe the Pinhead, on 21 October 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

Hello

Recently i have just bought my first light a firestarter k and am loving every match that being said I've had some really good matches and some really bad ones. i'm pretty sure in a few i pissed off my lance mates so if any read this i'm sorry bout that. anyways im starting to kinda get the hang of it but i have some real specific questions i couldn't find else where or in a concise answer. so i'll dive right in.

What upgrades should i use? i already have DHS and Endosteel.
What type of engine does a light work best with? im using my catas XL280.
How should i take advantage of the firestarters mobility?
How to scout and should i go solo sometimes?
How can i help my lance?
When should i engage a mech and which ones should i avoid?
Should i use the AMS and or Beagle Active Probe? others have said since i can outrun the LRMs so i don't need one.

so in a nutshell How do i survive in a light?
If this is already a thread i apologize for the taking of your time i just couldn't find it. Thank you in advance for your advice.
- A Pinhead

Engine size is going to be pilot preference, but (in my opinion) speed is life for lights, so the biggest engine you can pack into it, the better. I am a firm believer that lights should pack XLs for this reason, but I know some players that swear by STDs in their lights. For a Firestarter, XL280 is the lowest that I would go (I run my -S with a 280). Since you are running an XL, all you really need is DHS and Endo. Ferro is almost always not worth it on lights, though there are a few cases.

As for taking advantage of the Firestarter's mobility, keep in mind that, unless you intentionally build otherwise and the exception of the RT energy point on the -S, the Firestarter's hardpoints are symmetrical. This allows you to switch which sides of your mech you expose to view/fire without diminishing firepower when you are peeking/poking. Only do that, though, when you are sure that they aren't focused on you. Almost always keep moving, but learn to regulate speed. You don't want to be going full throttle ALL the time and speed regulation can help you turn, of course. If you need to suddenly change speed, say you need to pull a quick 180 and jump-turning will expose you to fire, hit the key for full-stop instead of decreasing throttle. You will change speed much faster that way. Also, minimum of 2 jump jets (4 is my ideal spot, if possible).

As 3xnihilo mentions, Firestarters are more escort/harasser mechs than they are scouts. You can scout, but I would stick more to checking flanks. Stay in range of your team, but try and keep a screen out on the flank to at least provide a warning for your team if there is a flank attack or a spotter. This is how you help you lance. Again, to reiterate 3xnihilo's advice, your job is to chase away other harassers. Also, once the fight is engaged, do your best to harass the enemies' heavy hitters. You want to strafe them just enough to make them look for the source of the damage but not expose yourself long enough for them to see you or, at least, be able to line up a good shot. Go into training grounds and practice focusing your fire on one section at a time on a target while running full tilt so that focusing weak sections becomes a habit. Finish of that weak LT on that DDC to drop that ECM bubble while he or she is dueling with your Direwolf.

Engage mechs that are alone, have exposed internals, and/or are bombing for your heavy hitters. Don't engage mechs that are 100 tons with full armor unless you have to or you know they won't have much chance to focus on you. BAP is up to you, if you can fit it, and works well with the Firestarter as it helps you counter-harass those pesky ECM lights/Cicadas. If you get another light chassis that uses streaks, BAP becomes much more important to help you lock on to those same pesky ECM mechs. Since your primary role as a Firestarter is an escort, I would say try to fit AMS to increase your value as an escort. I only avoid AMS on true scout mech to prevent giving away position, but that is no longer an issue with the AMS toggle. Survive by keeping mobile and keeping your big buddies from getting eaten by gnats. Don't go out by yourself. You are too squishy. Wolfpack as much as possible. Nothing is scarier than being caught out by three lights when you are too far for your team to rescue. Don't be a hero and don't chase the squirrel too far. Also, remember that you can be the squirrel that gets chased... As long as you have the cover to minimize those pesky LRMs.

TL;DR: Dodge, dip, duck, dive, and dodge. Just because you can dodge a wrench does NOT mean you can dodge Gauss. But it helps.

Edited by Commodore Perspicuous, 21 October 2014 - 08:57 PM.

[Monroe the Pinhead]

i quickly went on smurfy and remade it i'll put link below
this is my first time using smurfy so i hope the link works.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0862453c9ea4a22

[Commodore Perspicuous]

Monroe the Pinhead, on 21 October 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

i quickly went on smurfy and remade it i'll put link below
this is my first time using smurfy so i hope the link works.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0862453c9ea4a22

Be VERY careful shaving armor off of lights, particularly your legs. Lose a leg, lose your mech. Not to say you can't, just be careful. Here are a couple quick suggestions that I would run:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...61e4af345e2114b

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...34ab32c49c91485
*Use of Ferro here allows the increase from XL 280 to XL 295. Pilot preference.

I did not include BAP on these builds as the focus is putting more damage down range. Firestarters (and Jenners) can benefit from using BAP, but most seem to believe (and I agree) that they are more damage focused than other lights. But, that does come down to team comp (if you have a team) and pilot preference.

Edited by Commodore Perspicuous, 21 October 2014 - 09:10 PM.

[Atherious]

Heyo there,

Not really a Firestarter Pilot myself (Typically run Raven's myself, and I'm experimenting with fitting a LPL into a Locust 1V for the lols). That being said, as a mostly dedicated light pilot, I'm probably just going to end up reiterating the other folks posts.

As far as upgrades are concerned, if you're confident you're going to want to keep the mech in question, you can usually get away with the Endo/Ferro combo (Although the amount of armor on lights can make the difference between the two types of armor negligible). I only rarely end up having critical slot limitations with the tonnage light mechs will give you. That being said, you want to be really careful with DHS. I don't know why or how installing double heat sinks can cost more than some light mechs cost themselves, but they just do. That being said, they're also really handy.

Engines for Light mechs are very heavily XL populated, the higher the rating the better. I need not remind people of the reign of the lag shields, but typically a light mech's speed is their armor. You'll simply get ripped apart if you try to slow down or god forbid stop for more than an instant in sight of hostiles. Standard Engines can make for a good laugh when you lose a side torso and the enemy team wonders why the hell you aren't dead yet, but at that point the discrepency is fixed in a few moments.

This mobility bit really applies to lights in general. Stay moving, never run in a straight line towards or away or just around enemies in general. The harder it is for the other guy to get a bead on you the longer you'll stay in the match. Learn your way around the maps and always keep in mind where cover is (grid like alleyways like in Collective or Crimson Straight can be light havens with good pilots) in case missle warnings start flashing. Smurfy has this neat little thing where you can load up the maps and it'll give you data on the locations of kills/deaths/ and movement throughout the map. It's really awesome if you want to know where the heavy fighting is likely to happen.

Scouting solo is never ideal for any pilot of any skill level for long lengths of time and is really hard to pull off without ECM (That being said, ECM can ingrain some reckless piloting habits, but I digress). Straying too far from the group is a death sentence for any light caught with their pants down, but if for some reason you feel particularly masochistic there're a few pieces of advice I can give. Always plan your route ahead of time. Always have an idea of which way you're going to turn when things go inevitably south. And if you come across anything that isn't moving as fast as you are, run the hell away. That means you've stumbled across a medium/heavy/assault and they should always have buddies.

Helping your lance can be a tricky one. With the way the Matchmaker pairs up players, unless you're dropping in a group with pre assigned lances you'll usually end up with a variety of different mechs who might not mesh well with your playstyle. Typically think in terms of team rather than lance. Semantics aside, you can try your hand at the aforementioned scouting, or if you have ECM, provide coverage for your heavier mechs, especially Dire Wolves. You can keep enemy lights off your heavier allies (this is probably the most direct brawling you'll see) or target the same mechs your heavier guys are for the extra damage push.

This should be common sense, but don't engage a group of mechs without backup yourself. Even then, don't be the first to engage and draw the other guys attention (as a Light, you'll probably draw one or two people anyway, but just try to avoid aggro'ing people your heavies and assaults should be.) Light on Light brawls can end up stripping you of armor if they go poorly, so try not to let those last too long. If you see a lone assault (especially a Dire Wolf), on its own unawares of you, a light can pretty easily keep itself behind it and take it apart from the back. If you're plaguing an assault, he'll typically try and put his back to a wall if he can and try and keep you in sight that way, so be aware of that yourself.

And Lastly, I typically have a hard time justifying AMS in my mechs. Being fast usually means you're able to find cover from the incoming missle pain trains, so you personally can get away without it. It is always appreciated if you can find the room for it to cover your buddies, though. BAP is generally useful for locks and target info, so if you have the spare tonnage and/or weapons requiring locks, by all means get it.

TL;DR: What these guys said

How's that for a first post?

Edited by Atherious, 21 October 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[Tim East]

You're probably good on upgrades, FF armor generally isn't worth it unless you have a ton of free crit slots left after everything else.

Lights generally work best with the fastest engine they can mount, though I know a few people who'll drop a couple sizes to fit more gear as well. I try not to go slower than 150 if I can help it, though my COM 2D goes 120-something. What role you want to play as will factor into this decision as well. The reason my COM goes so slow is because it exists only to guard assaults and heavies against harassment and missile fire, and therefore doesn't need to actually chase enemy lights beyond close range or escape enemy mediums very often.

The Firestarter is a very strong chassis in that it can mount jump jets, which allow it to air-turn. Usually you'll use that function against flanker lights like my Locust or if you want to disengage and reengage rapidly for some reason. The other neat thing about JJ's is that if you mount enough of them you can hop over obstacles and evade some situations entirely. I don't currently have anything with them mounted, but I respect the power of them.

The Firestarter is not an ideal scout, as it is slower and larger than many other lights, but it can be run solo if you desire. Mount radar deprivation and utilize terrain features to obscure yourself from line of sight of the enemy until you are behind the bulk of their formation. Then, peek out and target someone you want missiles to rain on. TAG is nice for this, especially given the high number of E hardpoints on that chassis. Keep an eye on your minimap, since it will show a little red arrow for each enemy you can target. If a red arrow denoting someone's lower half points in your direction, run away.

Given that lances are now spawned by size, you may wish to fight as a pack. I've seen it work wonderfully, and I've seen it fail miserably. PUGs are a crap shoot after all.

You should engage mechs that are alone and not facing you. You should not engage mechs that have half their team next to them unless you have a strafing route planned out. Other than that, it is highly situational. I still die from engaging people I shouldn't or especially failing to disengage when I should, (what can I say, I am a Falcon, quiaff?) and I consider myself an above average Locust driver. It's something you kind of have to learn on your own though. Kind of like a subconscious instant risk assessment and decision-tree. You might even say intuition.

AMS is a waste of space for self-protection. If you move fast enough and not in the completely wrong direction, missiles should never even come close to you. If you plan on covering someone else, AMS might be ok though. Mount 2 if you can mount any at all, and bear in mind that the tonnage used will do little for your score. BAP, on the other hand, is amazing even if you aren't using anything with locks yourself. It negates one enemy ECM without you having to do anything but get close, it reduces the time to find out where to put your laser-knife on enemy mechs, and can even allow you to maintain a lock on shutdown mechs if you're close, preventing them from fooling you or escaping the LRMageddon of your loyal comrades who use your locks to score huge points. I always make room for BAP. Like jello.

Die well, Kuritan.

[Sparks Murphey]

Atherious, on 21 October 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

Scouting solo is never ideal for any pilot of any skill level for long lengths of time and is really hard to pull off without ECM (That being said, ECM can ingrain some reckless piloting habits, but I digress). Straying too far from the group is a death sentence for any light caught with their pants down, but if for some reason you feel particularly masochistic there're a few pieces of advice I can give. Always plan your route ahead of time. Always have an idea of which way you're going to turn when things go inevitably south. And if you come across anything that isn't moving as fast as you are, run the hell away. That means you've stumbled across a medium/heavy/assault and they should always have buddies.

Quoted for truth. The number one cause of death in light 'Mechs is being caught alone, and I'm going to emphasize this, BY ANYONE. Even If you're in a Jenner and run into an enemy Locust armed with MGs and swear words, the resulting twisting, turning dogfight will chew up time and armour, probably while his friends are pelting you with LRMs. If it's not a fast 'Mech you encounter, it's probably got some half decent weapons, and then those will eat you up. Keep a good eye on your minimap for where the rest of your team are, and hightail it back to them when you encounter resistance.

Secondly, don't forget to tell people about what you see if you're scouting. Not until you're relatively safe, obviously (remember that escape plan?) but send something via team chat letting people know 1) where they are 2) what they are 3) what they're doing. So, "G7, 2 Atlas and a heavy, heading south", or "Just over the ridge, most of the enemy, waiting". Target designation is all well and good, but I've seen many scouts inadvertently lead their teams to their deaths because they've spotted a single Atlas and two or three friendlies have charged over, only to find that Atlas had six friends.

[Tim East]

Sparks Murphey, on 22 October 2014 - 12:40 AM, said:

Even If you're in a Jenner and run into an enemy Locust armed with MGs and swear words, the resulting twisting, turning dogfight will chew up time and armour

Fear my Locust.

Sparks Murphey, on 22 October 2014 - 12:40 AM, said:

Secondly, don't forget to tell people about what you see if you're scouting. Not until you're relatively safe, obviously (remember that escape plan?) but send something via team chat letting people know 1) where they are 2) what they are 3) what they're doing. So, "G7, 2 Atlas and a heavy, heading south", or "Just over the ridge, most of the enemy, waiting". Target designation is all well and good, but I've seen many scouts inadvertently lead their teams to their deaths because they've spotted a single Atlas and two or three friendlies have charged over, only to find that Atlas had six friends.

Very valid point, though if you see a single Atlas, you should probably be making a pass at it yourself, unless you have some reason not to, like it being near turrets or something. If it does have friends, you can totally just plan C it if and when, yeah?

Lone assaults are kind of 24 karat opportunities as far as lights are concerned. Not the sort of thing you pass up.

[Ovion]

Without having read the rest of the thread, just the OP:
XL280 is perfectly respectable, though a 295 won't hurt. (Grabbing a FS9-S(C) when it's half price is a good way to get one imo)
I'd recommend fitting Ferro as well as Endo.
There's... 1-2 Lights I can think of that don't specifically need both (A spider variant, a commando variant and maybe a raven?)

2-4 Jump Jets is a good number.
AMS isn't that great on a light, unless going for a dedicated AMS build it's often just using precious weight.
BAP is OK for support, but not needed. Add to taste if there's room, I'd take BAP over AMS for that 1.5T.

Armour spread is key on lights.
As a general rule, sacrifice from the head first (unlikely to be hit, small fast moving hitbox)
Sacrifice from legs last.

For the K, personally, I'd run something like this: FS9-K
As a general rule - keep moving.
The Firestarter can get away with it a bit better than other lights, but slowing down will get you killed.
Utilise your speed, your size and your jumpjets to get places other mechs can't.
Don't try to brawl, instead make a strafing pass, or circle once or twice before moving away, either to another target or to come at the same target from a different angle.
Hitting a highly mobile mech or lightpack, or basically any assault from the front is unlikely to end well for you.
I tend to avoid the front end of Novas in a light aswell.

To scout... that takes practice but the short version is really 'see them without them seeing you'.
Slightly more specifically, when scouting call targets, which squares do and don't have enemies, when you spot them, what they are, variant, weapons and designation (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, etc).

However, imo the Firestarter isn't really a scout.
It's not quite fast enough or small enough, nor does it have ECM.
It's more a Hunter-Killer, harrasser and general support mech.

Protect your big things, and/or kill their big things.
Run interference and support brawlers.

Edited by Ovion, 25 October 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[Mothykins]

FS9-K

Trust me.

On more survival, hammer reverse when you go to corner; you swing tighter.

Swerve lots.

Get close, and keep moving, just not always fast.

Peek around corners.

Edited by Cavale, 25 October 2014 - 11:32 AM.

[Tarogato]

3xnihilo, on 21 October 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

... Lights always want xl engines, speed is life. ...

UrsusMorologus, on 21 October 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

... use your speed to get away ...

Commodore Perspicuous, on 21 October 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

... speed is life for lights, ...

Atherious, on 21 October 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

... a light mech's speed is their armor. ...

Ovion, on 25 October 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

... Utilise your speed, ...

[Myke Pantera]

I run it like this: FS9-K
Assign the left 3 lasers to the weapon group 1 and the other 3 to weapon group 2. Don't shoot all 6 if 3 of them would go into a wall. Once you near overheating, only use 1 arm at a time. This build is a little prone to loosing it's arms firepower, but the firestarter has really crappy torso pitch, and if you run lasers on torsos AND arms your ability to put all damage into one location is hampered. Also you would need 3 weapon groups if you use the torso hardpoints, which may or may not be a problem for you. Also some people put the DHS in the arms so they are less likely to loose medium lasers to crit damage, but i rather keep the higher heat efficiency after losing an arm.

Q: What upgrades should i use? i already have DHS and Endosteel.
Usually as many as you can. On the FS9-K i went without FF to achive a higher heat efficiency

Q: What type of engine does a light work best with? im using my catas XL280.
The higher the merrier, so XL295 is recommended

Q: How should i take advantage of the firestarters mobility?
Use it to find isolated mechs and flank as much as you can, but don't run away from your team too far. However if there is a situation where you can get behind the enemy mechs to shoot their backs and force them to make a decision whether they want to shoot back at you, risking exposure of their back armor to your main force, or let you keep shooting their backs, then do so. But watch out for Jenners and Mediums. Generally speaking don't be too bold.

Q: How to scout and should i go solo sometimes?
See above. It's more about flanking and supporting your team. You can scout but other lights do it better.

Q: How can i help my lance?
Again see above. Flank and get behind enemy lines (but be careful with getting behind). Or place UAVs. Stay alive. Lights can be deadly late in a game.

Q: When should i engage a mech and which ones should i avoid?
Go for battered mechs. Don't run straight at mechs. Only engage in 1vs1 when you know you'll win or have no other choice, this is where experience comes in. Slow Assaults without backup are good enemies up close, unless they have streaks or JJ.

Q: Should i use the AMS and or Beagle Active Probe? others have said since i can outrun the LRMs so i don't need one.
AMS depends. I'd rather go for the "Radar Deprivation" module, unless you want to go dual AMS. Don't use BAP since you don't need the extra range for scouting nor to cancel ECM for SSRM2s.

A few other points:
- Since you try to be sneaky and peak around corners a lot, i recommend "Seismic Sensor"
- Always go full armor on lights (except for Cockpit and maybe a few points on the arms, never strip armor of the legs, NEVER!)
- Don't overheat! I can't stress that one enough. The second you overheat, you're dead (unless there is noone there to exploit it, but who overheats when noone is there anyway...)
- Learn patience

Edited by Myke Pantera, 28 October 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[Igorius]

Monroe the Pinhead, on 21 October 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

so in a nutshell How do i survive in a light?

Lots of good advice from those who run Firestarters, so I'll just chime in on this bit.

First off, I don't consider myself a "good" Light pilot. Decent? Sure. I've known two good Light pilots since Beta started, and they could dance on the head of a pin while downing three Assault Mechs in rapid succession. They're a rare breed, and scary as hell to be on the opposing side of. Don't worry about becoming that sort of Light pilot. If you do, awesome, but if not, don't fret. As for myself, I've been running Kit Foxes during this whole contest weekend thingy, and here's what I've realized.

1.) All Light Mechs die. Accept it, and the matches become surprisingly fun.
2.) No one targets a wounded Light Mech if there's a big Assault or Heavy near him. That's the perfect time to go all bulldog on your enemy and get yourself some savior kills.
3.) Jump Jets are your friend. Speed is great, but mobility and knowing how to use it is so very wonderful.
4.) ECM is nice if you can fit it, but don't buy into the occasional complaint if you choose not to run it all the time. Run what you're comfortable with, and allow yourself the chance to get really skilled with it.
5.) This ties in a bit with #4, but it needs saying: Light Mechs aren't necessarily scout Mechs! Spiders are great scouts, so are Jenners. Commandos? More of a forward harasser, in my book. The Firestarter? I'd put it in the same category of the Kit Fox. Both are support/trooper designs, meant to knife fight or rain down pain as the pilot sees fit. Don't go thinking you need to rush to your doom just because you're smaller than that nice fat Dire Wolf marching nearby. Odds are good that, if you're patient and learn that you're oh so very mortal, you'll not only survive matches on average, but you'll also rack up some good performances and kills in the process.

So anyway, don't be afraid of running Light Mechs. There's lots of fun to be had with them, and mastering them is, to my mind, a much more rewarding experience than in an Atlas or Dire Wolf. Which is not to knock those who love their big'uns. It takes all types to make a match. But once you feel the rush of taking down an Assault by dancing around him at speed, stabbing with your "limited" weapons loadout, you'll never feel quite right in anything bigger ever again. That, I can guarantee.