2522 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

If we assume you can make 530,000 c-bills an hour, which considering the average match now lasts 8 to 10 minutes, with about 1-3 spent searching...totals about 5 drops...and considering how random rewards are under rewards 2.0, seems like a good average minimum performance to me, then:



it would take you 33 hours of playtime before you can afford a single, unmodded daishi.
21 hours to purchase a vanilla, unmodded, stock stormcrow.
19 hours to grind out a fully geared out atlas DDC, a very popular IS mech.
18 hours to afford an unmodded cataphract 3D, also a very popular IS mech.
9 hours in the trenches to buy an XL 300 engine, a crucial staple of mech construction for over two years.
11 hours for a 6 million space dollar module, of which radar derp and seismic are considered almost mandatory.
8 hours for an unmodded shadowhawk 2D2, yet another IS mainstay workhorse mech.
2 hours to buy a stock locust 1E, the cheapest and weakest mech currently in the game.
3 hours for the much improved (but still incredibly weak) locust 3M, which sports twin AMS slots (not included in the base price).
19 hours for a fully kitted out firestarter S, a fairly popular support light, thanks to its 6 jets, twin AMS, and extra mech module slot.
35 hours to purchase radar derp, seismic, AMS overload, and AMS range 5 for said firestarter.
24 hours if you desire a geared-out raven 3L.
40 hours to buy an LBX5 boating daishi, which is a build most people have seen flaunted in the ghetto by now.
33 hours to outfit said LBX5 daishi with LBX5 cooldown, ER medium cooldown, radar derp, and seismic.



I'm not saying this game's a grind beyond measure, but yes, it is a grind beyond measure.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 26 October 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Kaemon]

Heaven help the new player that picks the wrong mech/load out and realizes it after playing a few matches...making a mistake in the mech lab now costs you hours of life.

If you just spend $ all problems solved, so...

[Livewyr]

You mean it actually takes a while to outfit your mech with the highest possible tech? What madness is this?!

(Clearly you never played an MMORPG.)

[Rhaegor]

530k per hour? Quit being terrible.

[TexAce]

multiply it by 3-4 since newbs do like 400k in 3 hours according to newbs...

[Vassago Rain]

Rhaegor, on 26 October 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

530k per hour? Quit being terrible.

It's the number quoted by Joseph Mallan.

[EgoSlayer]

Rhaegor, on 26 October 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

530k per hour? Quit being terrible.

100K/match is an often quoted player average, so 530K in five matches is actually a bit generous.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 26 October 2014 - 06:01 AM.

[Gamuray]

That average in the OP would also mean ~3 hours avg to buy double heat sinks. .... Yeah.. It's a bit absurd. Especially given that "experts" would suggest not playing video games more than 3 hours a day.... <-not saying I agree... But by that measure, if you played 3 hours a day... it would take you a bit more than 6 days to get a geared out Atlas D-DC .... 6 DAYS It's quite a bit. That doesn't even allow you to elite it, because you need 3 of them. Mind you, those 6 days (times 3) are without ANY new content whatsoever. For a new player, that's a harsh, and potentially very boring and frustrating grind. (Don't say the 25 match bonus helps, because at that point they barely know how to play and won't be taking advantage of any boost provided)

Edit: Corrections

Edited by Gamuray, 26 October 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[Tangelis]

This is where we all have very different opinions of a "Grind"

Perhaps it is my age.... but after EQ's friggen paladin (Or any class) Epic quests... and FF7 Chocobo breeding and the like, 33 hours is a walk in the park. While for others it is the end of the world.

MW:O grind really isn't that bad.

[Bront]

I did a lot of the math in this thread about CBill earnings, but that was prior to the new rewards system. Using PGI's numbers, 600,000 an hour (100,000 per match, 10 minutes per match including search time and some small prep time) works out a lot of math.

The new Cbill rewards, not that folks have settled into them, seem to range from slightly worse in a loss, to much better in a good win, so I think overall may have raised the CBill economy a bit, which IMHO is a good thing.

[Elizander]

I'd much prefer that they scale down the cost of DHS/Endo/FF for Light/Medium mechs. They can also introduce a subset of cheaper XL engines that can only be outfitted on small and medium mechs to scale down the cost of customization for these supposedly cheaper mechs.

The mechs are cheap, but once you factor in the upgrades it's still quite massive in cost.

The earnings aren't bad if I'm farming solo queue with my Metawhale or my Kitfox (at least until Lurmageddon is over) but I do get trashed badly in most of my other mechs especially when leveling new ones or mechs I haven't played in awhile.

The good thing is that farming players can probably grab a cheap Commando 2D, slap on TAG with ECM to earn decent cash for a 2.35 million c-bill investment.

COM-2D

[Koniving]

Tangelis, on 26 October 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

This is where we all have very different opinions of a "Grind"

Perhaps it is my age.... but after EQ's friggen paladin (Or any class) Epic quests... and FF7 Chocobo breeding and the like, 33 hours is a walk in the park. While for others it is the end of the world.

MW:O grind really isn't that bad.

I perfectly agree.

However, we must also consider that PGI has stated that they are seriously considering re-implementing repair and rearm... in which case rather than limiting you by time to repair (BT's costs aren't high but the time to repair is; months at times), they limit you by cost (pricey!).

I hope when that day comes, either a boost to earnings or they balance costs with the current system... as any lower and it will really suck.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Add in what the grind causes in behaviors and it does nothing to improve the game. It leaves it wide open for exploiting with the excuse of one needs to earn.

This game has never been friendly to new players but lately since Russ has been brown nosing the whales its gotten worse. I put it all on him for not having any foresight or successful business acumen.

[Pale Jackal]

I think income should be slightly higher, for a loss at least, though I would appreciate any income buffs.

Game should be a lot friendlier to new players. The cadet bonus helps, but really they should get 6 'mechbays, so they can fully master two chassis, and I would double the cadet bonus.

[Vassago Rain]

Elizander, on 26 October 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

I'd much prefer that they scale down the cost of DHS/Endo/FF for Light/Medium mechs. They can also introduce a subset of cheaper XL engines that can only be outfitted on small and medium mechs to scale down the cost of customization for these supposedly cheaper mechs.

The mechs are cheap, but once you factor in the upgrades it's still quite massive in cost.

The earnings aren't bad if I'm farming solo queue with my Metawhale or my Kitfox (at least until Lurmageddon is over) but I do get trashed badly in most of my other mechs especially when leveling new ones or mechs I haven't played in awhile.

The good thing is that farming players can probably grab a cheap Commando 2D, slap on TAG with ECM to earn decent cash for a 2.35 million c-bill investment.

COM-2D

Why do we need to farm to enjoy our casual robot shooter game, I wonder? Why can't new players just join in the fun aspect, rather than suffer the most miserable new player experience outside of old hawken?

I note that you also paid 240 dollars for your clan robots. Would you have spent the 70+ hours TIMES 3 to master and module your daishis otherwise?

[El Bandito]

Bought all 3 of my Direwhales + 6xLB2X + 5xCUAC5 + CUAC5 modules, all with C-Bills grinded. PGI has no hold over my wallet.

Still holding onto my "Full CW or no money for PGI" pledge.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 October 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[stjobe]

Don't forget the 8 mil Cadet bonus for new players - perhaps that could do with some raising?

[Vassago Rain]

El Bandito, on 26 October 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

Bought all 3 of my Direwhales + 6xLB2X + 5xCUAC5+CUAC5 modules all with C-Bills grinded. PGI have no hold over my wallet.

Yes, I too had hundreds of millions of c-bills, but now I have very few. I'm gonna make the bold claim that you and others like us are in the same position.

Two years of playing allowed us to buy the initial clan mechs that we desired, but now our c-bill savings accounts are depleted.

[Koniving]

Elizander, on 26 October 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

I'd much prefer that they scale down the cost of DHS/Endo/FF for Light/Medium mechs. They can also introduce a subset of cheaper XL engines that can only be outfitted on small and medium mechs to scale down the cost of customization for these supposedly cheaper mechs.

The mechs are cheap, but once you factor in the upgrades it's still quite massive in cost.

The earnings aren't bad if I'm farming solo queue with my Metawhale or my Kitfox (at least until Lurmageddon is over) but I do get trashed badly in most of my other mechs especially when leveling new ones or mechs I haven't played in awhile.

The good thing is that farming players can probably grab a cheap Commando 2D, slap on TAG with ECM to earn decent cash for a 2.35 million c-bill investment.

COM-2D

This, too.
It cost me nothing but time to swap mechs from SHS to DHS in BT's campaigns. Time which I often didn't have, I confess, before the next attacks.

The total costs, however, with the costs of the DHS itself, was sub-400,000 for most lights and mediums, and about 900,000 for an Atlas. This is the costs of purchasing the DHS, paying the technician and his/her assistant technicians for 1 to 3 months (with supplies not on-hand). Granted it was a very skilled technician, the costs might end up higher due to time required with lesser skilled ones.

Now, the XL engine costs vary per chassis in BT.

An XL 300 for an Atlas, for example, is 12 million.
An XL 300 engine for a Hunchback, however, is 5,450,000 cbills. (almost 5.5 mil).
An XL 300 engine for a Commando (or any 25 ton mech) is 1,937,500 (almost 2 mil).

Naturally the engines were NOT compatible with one another.

Costs of endo steel / Ferro conversions also flexed per size, but they already flex in MWO anyway.

[Pale Jackal]

stjobe, on 26 October 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

Don't forget the 8 mil Cadet bonus for new players - perhaps that could do with some raising?

Thought it was 12 million... I'd definitely raise it to like 20 million. 'mech lab is a large part of the fun.

Let them buy and upgrade a couple 'mechs. Let them feel competitive. Getting ripped to shreds is never fun.

You have to get the players invested in your game before they will spend money.

Edited by Pale Jackal, 26 October 2014 - 06:25 AM.