19 replies to this topic

[UrsusMorologus]

Something that came up in a discussion and I am interested in getting opinions

The proposal is to remove legging as one of the ways to affect a kill. Removing a single leg would continue to work pretty much the same as now, but removing both legs would no longer count as a kill and instead would only (mostly) immobilize the target--you would need to core the engine or the cockpit to get a kill.

IMO this would improve the gameplay by removing the "sweep with lasers" kill farming and would add some depth. Turn the enemy into a slow-moving turret, he can still fight but he cant cap or attack. Lights would be able to affect the game longer after having their legs blown off, just as map hazards if nothing else.

Only real potential downside to it is that it could be extremely boring if you have two mechs both lose their legs on opposite sides of the map (fall damage or something) and everybody has to wait 5 min for them to crawl to each other.

[Lily from animove]

Doesn't makes sense your mech loses both legs and drops, therefore is immobile anyways. in older MW titles a single leg destroyed (blown off) took you out because you mehc drops without being able to stand up.

all it would cause is people do farm damage by blowing your feet off until you drop and then slowly killing your remains.

[990Dreams]

I has no legs, so I'm still gonna fight.

If you're legged, that means that the leg does nothing. So double legging means that you now have no support and fall over and, effectively, die.

[MechWarrior319348]

I was going to support your idea because you're in my friends list, but then I saw potato. Something the inner sphere desperately needs right now.

[Moses Lanknau]

legs r valid parts of the mech.(<-point)

i would like to legless mechs robbing on the gound, to get whats weaponwise possible in place, just that prone and immobile, doesnt necessary mean u r out of the job!

[Koniving]

DavidHurricane, on 27 October 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

I has no legs, so I'm still gonna fight.

If you're legged, that means that the leg does nothing. So double legging means that you now have no support and fall over and, effectively, die.

Spoiler

Physical attacks for Shadow Hawk SHD-2D (Lordred)
Kick (Left leg) at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Koniving); needs 6, rolls 11 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Rear Kick table) RL
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Koniving) takes 12 damage to RL.
Armor destroyed, 20 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on RL. Roll is (9+3) = 12; 2 locations.
CRITICAL HIT on Hip.
CRITICAL HIT on Lower Leg.


Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Koniving) must make 5 piloting skill roll(s) (was kicked; hip actuator hit; leg/foot actuator hit; was kicked; 20+ damage).
The base target is 4 [4 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (4 (Base piloting skill) + 0 (was kicked) + 2 (hip actuator hit) + 1 (leg/foot actuator hit) + 0 (was kicked) + 1 (20+ damage)); needs 8, rolls 4 : falls.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Koniving) falls on its left side, suffering 10 damage.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Koniving) takes 5 damage to LA.
29 Armor remaining.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Koniving) takes 5 damage to RL (critical).
15 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on RL. Roll is 4; no effect.
Critical hit on RL. Roll is 11; 2 locations.
CRITICAL HIT on Upper Leg.
CRITICAL HIT on Foot.

Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Koniving) "Lissandra Caprara" must roll 8 to avoid damage; rolls 8 : succeeds.

Lost that leg, soon lost the other leg.

Still fought (and killed a mech), up until losing an arm, where it was no longer able to support itself up to shoot others. (Kept switching which arm was shooting and supporting the mech, too, like one of those super amped up push-up guys).

But yeah, losing your legs can suck. It's like losing your tracks in War Thunder.
Yet damn can you still be useful, and furthermore... keep fighting.
Then there was this tank. Yes it eventually died, but it took out an Atlas and 4 Enforcers long after it got tracked and immobile on its way out the door.

(The fourth Enforcer it took out has his corpse outside of this field. The North-most Enforcer is the one that eventually took the tank out).
So while it could suck... it could prove kinda epic.

But I'll be upset if I'm perfectly upright or still standing after losing both legs. That'll take all the fun out of it for me.

Edited by Koniving, 27 October 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[Draykin]

I would vote yes to this, but on the condition that a 'Mech can still fight while double legged.

To my knowledge, destroying a leg means also destroying the support that leg gives, therefore a double legged 'Mech would still fall down, after which I feel that it might be cool to see a fallen 'Mech still able to fight while down like this, and it could lead to some interesting matches. Of course, I wouldn't expect anything like this to make it in before, say, a reintroduction of collisions, so that a 'Mech can fall down for more than one reason, so there's a purpose to still being able to fight while down.

[UrsusMorologus]

Yes that is what I am proposing, shooting off both legs would turn them into a turret hazard

I would not want them to fall down and stop moving completely. They should be able to move enough to reposition, but not fast enough to go anywhere or do anything.

Thinking about it some more there is probably some animation work that would need to be done before this could be implemented correctly and fully.

I just do not think its good gameplay to leg mechs and kill them. Its cheap.

[MilesTeg1982]

voted No

(1) most people don't shoot the legs anyway - and those who are usually do it for one of the following reasons:
- they hope to catch a mech with very low armor on the legs (some people do that on heavies to be able to use heavier weapons
- they hope to catch people with ammo in the legs (and thus destroy the leg by ammo explosion)
- they want to slow down the target - espeacially lights (once a spider is legged its remaining lifetime is usually only seconds)

the proposed change would not affect that

(2) - considering a mech with full armor - both legs together have higher armor than the CT and usually more then ST (except when all armor is moved to the front) - therefore destryoing both legs does take at least the same amount of firepower than destroying CT or STs - so why shouldn't that be worth a kill?

(3) if a legged mech (and thus unable to move) could still kill an enemie this could end in situations where mechs end up beeing legged and not able to kill each other cause they are too far away from each other. Yes I know this should be very rarely - but there are enough trolls in the game and I gauarantee that some will try to create such situations on purpose

[Burktross]

Lose supports.
Fall on cockpit.
RIP.

No, I'm good. Legging's already a *****, no need to make it bitchier.

[lkj]

I look forward to the new wheelchair module.

[DrSlamastika]

LOL what a stupid noobish idea

[StalaggtIKE]

No. You should pay for poor planning.

Remember, real pilots don't shave their legs:

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 28 October 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Colby Boucher]

The reason this isn't allready the case is because people don't want to become turrets.

[Ljusdahl]

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

There are multiple types of Leg damage that could render a leg ineffective or destroyed.
- Not all physically remove the leg.
- Not all destroy the structural support.

Simply destroying the actuators for a leg to move would do it, or enough Myomer bundles that it can no longer move.
- This does not mean the Mech will fall over.
- Even during a power down the legs lock in there position, so as long as this mechanism is still operational the leg stays up.
- The Gyro should temporally help the Mech till the leg lock engages.
(without power the legs are locked normally)

If we see the 'eject' function make it's way into normal gameplay that may be an 'out' for the Pilot of a stranded Mech, well out of Enemy contact or sensor range.
- Still able to torso twist and fire, but as stated, basically a tall turret.

9erRed

[Mad Pig]

Just... no.

[Lily from animove]

Colby Boucher, on 28 October 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

The reason this isn't allready the case is because people don't want to become turrets.

also think about the trolls, leg someone run away let him wait 7 minutes of the rsets of a mission, then they come back before missionn ends, killing you. WOW, not needed to cater the trolls even more.

Edited by Lily from animove, 30 October 2014 - 05:23 AM.

[xeromynd]

I think that legging a mech, visually, should work like it does now.
The mech falls over and the pilot can't do jack ****.

The reward for this should be "Enemy Disabled" or something like that. This would effectively still count as a 'point' for your team, but:

Then, I think you should have to ruthlessly core the mech while it's on the ground in order to actually get the "Killing Blow" reward, (component destructions would not count) I think it would be insane fun, just remembering "ok that guy's legged, focus on the other enemy, then we'll come back, and shoot the hell out of him in a minute if we want to teach him a lesson." This would also slightly increase CBill gains per match.

This would mean mechs would have to remain solid objects in the field once legged or destroyed. Meaning a dead FAtlas in the cave on Forest Colony CAN block the whole cave path.

Just a thought

[Blackcat67]

We all play Mechwarrior, and it's precedents, for the illusion of really stomping around in a mech and shooting the 'bad' guys.

If something yanks us out of that illusion, it's the event of something unusual or just plain wrong, like not getting rattled when hit by a AC20 round or getting knocked off balance by a nearly artillery strike.

The IP needs to decide just how much 'real' they want the experience to be.

Stealth is a key component and unless we're playing in an arena with rules about legging (map hint), we can't ignore the possibility of getting a mech's legs shot out and -if ignored after that-, the fact that the engine, guns and radar still work.

Sure your Raven might have done a somersault and you're upside down, but as long as someone doesn't notice your engine getting cooler and proceeds to wail on your hapless form, -in a real battlefield-, you can still fight.