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Enhanced Imaging


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#1 Foxfire kadrpg

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 10:03 AM

I am no expert on Battletech lore, but I seem to recall the clans had a special technology named "Enhanced Imaging" that would give the mechwarrior a more detailed understanding of their surroundings.

I am suggesting adapting the concept for MWO by way of a module.

In game, if the module is equipped, the player could toggle Enhanced Imaging (simular to Heat Vision and Night Vision modes).

Enhanced imaging would remove all textures from geometry, making the terrain gray, sky black, and shading mechs in a desaturated red or blue depending upon IFF. As mechs take damage to their components, enhanced imaging could indicate this by shading their hitboxes with an ever brighter yellow (for enemies) and green (for friendlies.)

Basically, I'm suggesting taking up a module slot to very quickly view IFF and part status.

#2 tripsangel

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 10:57 AM

so... wireframe vision with colors on mechs that show damage? i'll take it

#3 Oethe

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 12:59 PM

Yes I would love this lore add. May not always use it but it would be nice.

#4 gl0w

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 01:12 PM

Ha! I was just watching the old Battletech episodes where they say "Initiate Enhanced Imaging" before every fight. I said it in a match last night, but it didn't help me aim any better. :P

I love this idea. I'd settle for them updating the other two view modes to be better than the IS too, because module slots are precious. :)

#5 Jor Jurgenson

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 05:33 AM

I would be interested in a module that increased the range of the alternate vision modes: thermal and night.

A third vision mode would be intriguing as well, although remember how long it took them to make these two work without horrific levels of lag. They still an fps drop, just not nearly as bad as it was.

Another concern is remembering how good the "old" thermal (bluevision) worked. I could cockpit someone at 800 meters with that on. I think it can go really sideways too, design-wise.

Lastly, we only get two mech modules (with few exceptions) per mech. I can't see dropping radar deprivation or advanced seismic on my damage dealers.

#6 Aiden Skye

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 07:45 AM

I've always wanted to say "Initiating Enhanced Imaging" as I spot some IS scum on the horizon.

+1

#7 9erRed

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 08:22 AM

Greetings all,

If this was to ever 'see the light of day', it's actually a backward step for the game programmers and artists.
- As was stated we would be given a mesh overlay for the terrain, it's actually there now, but overlaid with all the other layers.
- This would give the Pilot a real idea of what the terrain was like and where the Mech could move, slopes would become much more evident, and without the multiple mesh layers being displayed, probably easer on the systems.

We would need the programmers to check the Mech mesh models, as when the overlay details are applied there may be some overlap we no longer see in the mesh image. They would probably need to create a simplified overlay for each Mech as the true mesh would be much too complex.

It would be only available to the Clans at this point in the timeline. So there may be some uproar from all the other IS Pilots in not having a similar system. (It's a Clan thing only)

I'm sure the game designers have seen this actual image many times while they work on the maps and Mech models, without the various overlays of artwork it's all straight mesh geometry.
- I wouldn't put too much in expecting this level of detail yet. lets get CW rolling and see what kind if time is left for 'basically eye candy' additions.

9erRed

#8 Sniper09121986

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 12:18 PM

View Post9erRed, on 10 December 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Greetings all,

If this was to ever 'see the light of day', it's actually a backward step for the game programmers and artists.
- As was stated we would be given a mesh overlay for the terrain, it's actually there now, but overlaid with all the other layers.
- This would give the Pilot a real idea of what the terrain was like and where the Mech could move, slopes would become much more evident, and without the multiple mesh layers being displayed, probably easer on the systems.

We would need the programmers to check the Mech mesh models, as when the overlay details are applied there may be some overlap we no longer see in the mesh image. They would probably need to create a simplified overlay for each Mech as the true mesh would be much too complex.

It would be only available to the Clans at this point in the timeline. So there may be some uproar from all the other IS Pilots in not having a similar system. (It's a Clan thing only)


This would be an AWS-0M3 idea. A no-nonsense dev-like overlay showing terrain with grades of passability for these movement archetypes of theirs, the actual borders of objects so that we do not shoot through walls and corners that visibly are not there, and, you know... HIT BOXES!!!111 (Firestarter and Spider regular opponent roar of righteous fury) And maybe hardpoint types (energy/ballistic/missile) and some other info. Now that would be real pro tactic-like. And as for Inner Sphere availability, there may be http://www.sarna.net...eural_Interface with a different HUD skin, so little problem here as well.

Also BUMP for Nicolai Malthus :excl:

#9 9erRed

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 02:54 PM

Greetings all,

As a note here on this 'Enhanced imaging',

- Developed by the Clans, Enhanced Imaging or EI is an advanced targeting and piloting system for use with humanoid shaped combat vehicles such as BattleMechs, battle armour and ProyoMechs. While offering considerable advantages, as well as serving as the only viable control method for ProtoMechs, EI inflicts serious side effects on the user, including possible mental instability, nerve damage and death.

The Enhanced Imaging system combines two separate components,
- the first of which is an Enhanced Imaging Display. This advanced computer uses sensor data from friendly units in combination with pre-loaded terrain data to essentially create a more detailed "virtual reality" heads-up display. This component can be used by itself to aid in battlefield coordination and piloting, and by 3050 most Clan 'Mechs were equipped with EI Displays.
- The second and more dangerous of the EI components are Enhanced Imaging Neural Implants, which only work in conjunction with EI displays. Implanted just beneath the skin and connected to the subject's central nervous system, these implants not only replace the need to wear Neurohelmet but allow a person to access the EI system by thought and communicate with their machine instantaneously for superior reflexes. The drawback to these implants are significant, with those implanted liable to suffer feedback from internal damage to their machines in the form of potentially lethal electrical shocks, along with increasing mental instability which in a matter of years renders them unfit for duty.

This is the direct Lore related info, but only descriptions are mentioned of what the pilot actual saw within the tech manuals and books. The Tv mini series took quite a few 'artistic' adaptations in attempting to show, for that series tech level, what this could look like. The terrain wire frames and simplified lines on the 'Mechs, at that time, was about as much as they could do. Today with our current tech abilities we should be able to improve on that considerably.

Is the additional work worth it for PGI? Would restricting it to only the Clans be counter productive for the time invested? How do these advanced overlays and images benefit the Pilot? With the Lore stating it allows for faster reactions and 'reflex' abilities. How would PGI model this for just a single vision mode only?
- Yes it would be interesting but it's not just the vision mode by itself.

Good idea, lots of lore info to build from, but somewhat difficult to implement.

9erRed

#10 Wildstreak

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:43 PM

View PostFoxfire kadrpg, on 09 December 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Enhanced imaging would remove all textures from geometry, making the terrain gray, sky black, and shading mechs in a desaturated red or blue depending upon IFF. As mechs take damage to their components, enhanced imaging could indicate this by shading their hitboxes with an ever brighter yellow (for enemies) and green (for friendlies.)

Not really sure about that.
Look at 2:15 here.


But you seem to have a lot of support! :P


#11 Burktross

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 07:13 PM

View PostW A R K H A N, on 10 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

I've always wanted to say "Initiating Enhanced Imaging" as I spot some IS scum on the horizon.

He says as he adjusts his Marik armband.

Nice try, but you ain't trickin' anyone! :P

#12 Sniper09121986

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 10:09 AM

View Post9erRed, on 30 March 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

This is the direct Lore related info, but only descriptions are mentioned of what the pilot actual saw within the tech manuals and books. The Tv mini series took quite a few 'artistic' adaptations in attempting to show, for that series tech level, what this could look like. The terrain wire frames and simplified lines on the 'Mechs, at that time, was about as much as they could do. Today with our current tech abilities we should be able to improve on that considerably.

Is the additional work worth it for PGI? Would restricting it to only the Clans be counter productive for the time invested? How do these advanced overlays and images benefit the Pilot? With the Lore stating it allows for faster reactions and 'reflex' abilities. How would PGI model this for just a single vision mode only?
- Yes it would be interesting but it's not just the vision mode by itself.

Good idea, lots of lore info to build from, but somewhat difficult to implement.

9erRed


Like I wrote before, there is an Inner Sphere (actually Word of Blake) technology of http://www.sarna.net...eural_Interface that is essentially a copy of EI, so no restrictions here if we take a few liberties. MWO is not considered official BT canon anyway, so no big deal. For reflexes and reactions there is no easy answer, but we hardly need it. This is a competitive game, after all. The overlays though would be just the thing. Say, you pilot a big mech and are unsure whether you can climb up that hill or not. There may be terrain markers for that based on the game algorithms that govern mechs' mobility. As you peek around the corner you are able to see the exact geometry of objects and not be afraid of wasting ammo on some invisible wall or corner (invisible to you but not the game engine - it actually happens quite often to snipers). Lastly, when an enemy mech approaches, you see its hitboxes and damage status as an overlay, like a target miniature in MW2 but in place of the actual object so you can aim there. As a trade-off, the system might only show objects that are detected by mech's systems and not just your eyes, so that ECM Fatlass standing right in front of you might just as well be invisible :ph34r: Occasionally I am able to spot enemy mechs by parts of their structure sticking out of cover or between debris, but I still cannot lock on them. So such ambushes may still be possible. Just a vision mode, I agree, but potentially a very useful and interesting one. The modern Artificial/Virtual Reality trend seems to be quite along these lines, so why not?

#13 9erRed

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 03:50 PM

Greetings all,

The only issue I might have with having this additional view mode is,
- How will the clients machine render it? As an overlay or replacement of what's normally there?
- Will it also need to be dual running on the server as a second display mode? (network issues here)
- Does it change any 'detection and targeting' code that's being used by the hit detection code?

Yes, what you'd be seeing is greatly reduced rendering requirements from a normal view mode.
- Are the draw distances effected now that all the small objects and overlay mesh's are not presented?
- Would we still be seeing weapons fire, smoke, fires, and some particle effects that could make this mode a bit 'cheating' as others can't use it? (similar to 'trees' blocking your view when other don't see the trees.)

I would say that the artists would need to completely rebuild the viewed 'mesh's' this mode would use. As the game background mesh's are 'in some cases' way to complex for what this mode should be using. With some objects having 100's/1000's or more of vertices but possibly only needing 20 to 50 in this vision mode. (not even talking about all the overlap we don't see when the 'texture' overlay gets placed on top. And we don't even have tessellation or bump mapping yet!) It's not a simple 'eliminate' the 'textures' for this mode.
- The game models mesh's and hit box's are two separate objects, and in some cases 'don't quite match'.
- A round object may have a square box hit shape, this was discussed by PGI and deemed 'too expensive' in network traffic, to actually match the mesh and hit box shapes for some items. Same for any overhanging shaped object, and the eventual 'invisible walls' we sometimes find.

The amount of resources and time required by PGI to make this 'vision mode' a reality, could be 'too much' at this time.
- Perhaps as a side project by the engineers and artists, but there time is limited.

Just some thoughts,
9erRed

#14 rolly

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 04:00 PM

This module should ONLY happen if when you activate Enhanced Imaging it announces it an a super agro Clanner voice "INITIATE ENHANCED IMAGING!" and the opening music from the cartoon plays. When you turn it off, its the ending credit close.

Edited by rolly, 31 March 2015 - 04:01 PM.


#15 Sniper09121986

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 12:50 PM

View Post9erRed, on 31 March 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

1 How will the clients machine render it? As an overlay or replacement of what's normally there?
2 Will it also need to be dual running on the server as a second display mode? (network issues here)
3 Does it change any 'detection and targeting' code that's being used by the hit detection code?

Yes, what you'd be seeing is greatly reduced rendering requirements from a normal view mode.
4 Are the draw distances effected now that all the small objects and overlay mesh's are not presented?
5 Would we still be seeing weapons fire, smoke, fires, and some particle effects that could make this mode a bit 'cheating' as others can't use it? (similar to 'trees' blocking your view when other don't see the trees.)


1 I would like a total replacement, cartoon style, possibly with some additional overlay data, like what we get while pressing Q key, I believe, but with more tactical information than in other vision modes.
2 Extremely unlikely. Its render is using game resources available on your PC, the server is only broadcasting game related info such as impacts, damage, position etc. All of it is already implemented in current game engine, nothing to change here at all.
3 Kerensky forbid!!! It should only assist players in making tactical decisions, hit registration is once again a function of underlying game engine. It might draw hitboxes for you, but even in that case it will still be down to you to hit them.
4 No direct relation there, but I have noticed that NV and Thermal vision modes have a lot lower distance visibility than regular optic mode. So who knows?
5 Trees? Maybe, since they may possibly block your path. Smoke and fire? Unlikely, since they are tactically irrelevant. Also if I remember correctly Thermal vision allows to see through smoke (or at least is supposed to).

View PostSniper09121986, on 31 March 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

the system might only show objects that are detected by mech's systems and not just your eyes, so that ECM Fatlass standing right in front of you might just as well be invisible :ph34r:


I have one more idea about this. Since ECM is so important that it is already being called Jesus box, in time we may see the battlefield flooded with ECM mechs. Modern radar systems are able to track the general direction of ECM jammer, and in MWO there is a signal strength indicator for enemy ECM. Enhanced Imaging mode might take this a little further, possibly by visualising the imaginary ECM protection bubble for every ECM in Disrupt mode. Logically the jammer must be at the center of that bubble but not visible outright since jamming prevents mech computers from gathering more precise information, so still no target locks. That at least would force the jammers to switch it off sometimes ;)

#16 PyckenZot

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 12:47 AM

So, essentially, you want a new default vision mode?

#17 Sniper09121986

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 10:46 AM

View PostPyckenZot, on 13 April 2016 - 12:47 AM, said:

So, essentially, you want a new default vision mode?


Not default, just another alternative along with IR and NV that we have now. Old infrared was OP so they made a new one that has its uses when, say, running through thick forests, but it does not obsolete other modes. Along with ECM limits from my year old posts (yay! Astrologists declared the month of Enhanced Imaging! Posted Image) it should be balanced enough. I mean we already have a target paper doll on the HUD, and now it would simply be projected over the battlefield instead of the target mech.

#18 PyckenZot

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 12:36 PM

View PostSniper09121986, on 13 April 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:


Not default, just another alternative along with IR and NV that we have now. Old infrared was OP so they made a new one that has its uses when, say, running through thick forests, but it does not obsolete other modes. Along with ECM limits from my year old posts (yay! Astrologists declared the month of Enhanced Imaging! Posted Image) it should be balanced enough. I mean we already have a target paper doll on the HUD, and now it would simply be projected over the battlefield instead of the target mech.


I see your point, but I believe such a vision mode would be the de facto standard vision mode.

Edited by PyckenZot, 13 April 2016 - 12:38 PM.


#19 Sniper09121986

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:08 AM

View PostPyckenZot, on 13 April 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

I see your point, but I believe such a vision mode would be the de facto standard vision mode.


If everyone would have access to it - sure, why not? Seems to be the case in the cartoon anyway Posted Image





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