61 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

What about PPC's?

They seem to be not registering all the time either. I just got out of a dog fight with an Atlas DDC. His LT was open, put 7 shots in it and did not even turn cherry red, in fact most shots did not register. Went to the testing grounds Forest Colony and tried chain firing PPC's into those mechs as well. Some do not register at all as hits.

This has been an issue since the first Clan Public Test. Am I the only seeing it?

[BryanR]

You are not alone, I was having a hell of a time with PPC's last night. Haven't had a chance to play since the laser hit reg fix went in though.

[Mawai]

I was wondering how ballistics are implemented in MWO.

Do ballistic weapons retain the proper motion of the mech when fired?

For example ... I am moving at 50kph (14m/s) across the line of fire and I aim at the CT of a stationary opponent when I fire.

If the target is 500m away and the round moves 1000m/s then the round takes 0.5s to reach the target. However, since I am moving ... if the round retains the lateral motion of the firer then the round ends up hitting 7m to the side of where it was aimed. This is made worse for arm weaponry which is usually 2 to 4 meters to the side of the line of vision from the cockpit.

Target motion has to be factored into aiming by leading the target appropriately ... but I was wondering if you also need to factor in YOUR proper motion when aiming as well ... that could explain why I have so much trouble hitting with ballistics ... but I don't know if it works that way.

As far as ballistic hit registration goes ... I think you would need to capture video and make sure the round visually hits first ... then look to hit registration and HSR for issues. Just aiming the targeting reticle isn't sufficient if both the target and the firer are moving.

[DaZur]

Pssst.... Wanna know a secret? PPCs are actually modeled like a ballistic with fancy particle effects...

IMHO it's the size of their particle effects that screws with folks perception that their shots are missing. The actual point of impact (If I recall correctly it roughly the same size as an AC/20) is no where near the size the the graphical representation.

A lot of shots tend to squeeze between/around the mass of the mech while the graphics looks like they should be hitting...

To that point... A/Cs are registering fairly well... thus PPCs should effectively be following suite.

[Torric]

They *say* they fixed it. Server side. No patching! And i am Morgan Kell reincarnate.

Absolutely no difference in damage done per game. And i have been in a single ER LL spider before and after the patch.

[Jman5]

I played 5 matches of Community Warfare last night after the hotfix rolled in. 4 out of 5 of those matches were the highest damage matches I have ever had. To me the difference was stark even before I saw the thread about them fixing hit-reg.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Easy fix. Go to mechlab. Remove PPC, place LPL. Problem solved....

[NovaFury]

911 Inside Job, on 19 December 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

Easy fix. Go to mechlab. Remove PPC, place LPL. Problem solved....

As an added bonus, you get MOAR WUB and don't even need to change your build around much.

[FupDup]

NovaFury, on 19 December 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

As an added bonus, you get MOAR WUB and don't even need to change your build around much.

Wub is the gift that keeps on giving.

[YueFei]

Mawai, on 19 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

I was wondering how ballistics are implemented in MWO.

Do ballistic weapons retain the proper motion of the mech when fired?

For example ... I am moving at 50kph (14m/s) across the line of fire and I aim at the CT of a stationary opponent when I fire.

If the target is 500m away and the round moves 1000m/s then the round takes 0.5s to reach the target. However, since I am moving ... if the round retains the lateral motion of the firer then the round ends up hitting 7m to the side of where it was aimed. This is made worse for arm weaponry which is usually 2 to 4 meters to the side of the line of vision from the cockpit.

Target motion has to be factored into aiming by leading the target appropriately ... but I was wondering if you also need to factor in YOUR proper motion when aiming as well ... that could explain why I have so much trouble hitting with ballistics ... but I don't know if it works that way.

As far as ballistic hit registration goes ... I think you would need to capture video and make sure the round visually hits first ... then look to hit registration and HSR for issues. Just aiming the targeting reticle isn't sufficient if both the target and the firer are moving.

No, it doesn't replicate physics properly, projectiles do not inherit your velocity vector.

You can confirm this by Testing Grounds, run laterally relative to a target at 1 km, fire ERPPC with your crosshairs centered on target. Use a mech that goes ~40 meters/sec, like Spider-5D. ERPPC velocity is 1050 meters/sec, so it should take 1 second to reach the target. If the bolt inherited your velocity, it would whiff the target by 40 meters.

Instead, if you pull the trigger with the crosshairs on the target, it will hit the target.

Another way you can see it evidently is the way you see the "side" of the PPC bolt after you fire it. If it inherited your velocity vector, it would fly straight away from your point-of-view, so you'd always be looking at the "back" of the PPC bolt as it flew directly away from you.

This makes it tricky to lead targets when both you and the target are moving.... your mind automatically tries to compensate for the movement and you may lead the target too far or not enough. For example, if both you and the target are moving laterally in the *same* direction at the same speed, you shouldn't have to lead the target (other than compensating for windage, which is the airspeed flowing across your mech due to actual wind and your own movement). In MWO, there's no wind accounted for, no air resistance, so you shouldn't have to lead the shot at all. And your brain sees the same thing, so you put the crosshairs directly on the target and shoot.... but the shot falls "behind" the target. So you end up having to lead the target even though it looks like it isn't moving laterally at all relative to you.

One technique I've seen others use is to "padlock" themselves to a piece of terrain to "stabilize" their sense of the target's movement. By locking the crosshairs onto a piece of terrain, then you get a good picture of the movement of the target relative to the ground. Then you can more easily lead the shot properly for MWO physics.

[occusoj]

Well, playing the wubshee, its not perfect when firing all the lasers in one alpha. Its better now but now and then some damage still seems to disappear even into static targets.

Regarding the 2xERLL on my K2, theres a noticeable improvement compared to the last few days. To me it seems to be about 80% of the pre-CW state which, sadly, wasnt that great to begin with.

Whatever they do with PPC Hitreg, its not good. Certainly worse than ballistics.

tldr: Good start but please keep improiving it.

[CocoaJin]

I tried the test server for the first time last night. Was playing around with head shots. Used 2 MLs to line up my shot to the left eye of an Atlas and the cockpit of a Cataphract if I remember correctly. Though the other mechs went down as expected, these two mechs both took the 2x MLs as a test fire to confirm I was aimed at the head, an AC20 shot and then another shot from the 2x MLs to head shot the mechs.

Now maybe there is some dynamic I'm not aware of, but I thought all heads shots required the same damage...or do heavier mechs have more head structure?

[FupDup]

CocoaJin, on 19 December 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I tried the test server for the first time last night. Was playing around with head shots. Used 2 MLs to line up my shot to the left eye of an Atlas and the cockpit of a Cataphract if I remember correctly. Though the other mechs went down as expected, these two mechs both took the 2x MLs as a test fire to confirm I was aimed at the head, an AC20 shot and then another shot from the 2x MLs to head shot the mechs.

Now maybe there is some dynamic I'm not aware of, but I thought all heads shots required the same damage...or do heavier mechs have more head structure?

All heads have the same armor and internals. The difference is that some players might strip off a bit of head armor because that location isn't hit very often (why put full armor somewhere that doesn't get hit?).

[YueFei]

CocoaJin, on 19 December 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I tried the test server for the first time last night. Was playing around with head shots. Used 2 MLs to line up my shot to the left eye of an Atlas and the cockpit of a Cataphract if I remember correctly. Though the other mechs went down as expected, these two mechs both took the 2x MLs as a test fire to confirm I was aimed at the head, an AC20 shot and then another shot from the 2x MLs to head shot the mechs.

Now maybe there is some dynamic I'm not aware of, but I thought all heads shots required the same damage...or do heavier mechs have more head structure?

Fully armored head is 18 armor + 15 internals. 33 hitpoints.

2xML is 10 damage. Then AC20 deals 8 damage to armor and 12 to internals, leaving 3 hitpoints, BUT you may or may not get a crit. If you crit, you will deal an additional 3/6/9 damage to internals, which will destroy the head.

[Sandpit]

Torric, on 19 December 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

They *say* they fixed it. Server side. No patching! And i am Morgan Kell reincarnate.

Absolutely no difference in damage done per game. And i have been in a single ER LL spider before and after the patch.

you do realize that hit reg IS server side right?

That there's absolutely NOTHING client side that needs to be adjusted or patched on your pc right?

Just wanted to help you out so you don't sound ignorant and uninformed sir

[MoonUnitBeta]

Mawai, on 19 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

I was wondering how ballistics are implemented in MWO.

Do ballistic weapons retain the proper motion of the mech when fired?

For example ... I am moving at 50kph (14m/s) across the line of fire and I aim at the CT of a stationary opponent when I fire.

If the target is 500m away and the round moves 1000m/s then the round takes 0.5s to reach the target. However, since I am moving ... if the round retains the lateral motion of the firer then the round ends up hitting 7m to the side of where it was aimed. This is made worse for arm weaponry which is usually 2 to 4 meters to the side of the line of vision from the cockpit.

Target motion has to be factored into aiming by leading the target appropriately ... but I was wondering if you also need to factor in YOUR proper motion when aiming as well ... that could explain why I have so much trouble hitting with ballistics ... but I don't know if it works that way.

As far as ballistic hit registration goes ... I think you would need to capture video and make sure the round visually hits first ... then look to hit registration and HSR for issues. Just aiming the targeting reticle isn't sufficient if both the target and the firer are moving.

Nope. Just goes in a straight line at a fixed speed, and if it has it, a fixed arc. Lateral movement is so minute it's not worth the extra calculation.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 19 December 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 19 December 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Wub is the gift that keeps on giving.

Wubgoyle appreciates this, and is going to town.

[Fate 6]

Mawai, on 19 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

I was wondering how ballistics are implemented in MWO.

Do ballistic weapons retain the proper motion of the mech when fired?

For example ... I am moving at 50kph (14m/s) across the line of fire and I aim at the CT of a stationary opponent when I fire.

If the target is 500m away and the round moves 1000m/s then the round takes 0.5s to reach the target. However, since I am moving ... if the round retains the lateral motion of the firer then the round ends up hitting 7m to the side of where it was aimed. This is made worse for arm weaponry which is usually 2 to 4 meters to the side of the line of vision from the cockpit.

Target motion has to be factored into aiming by leading the target appropriately ... but I was wondering if you also need to factor in YOUR proper motion when aiming as well ... that could explain why I have so much trouble hitting with ballistics ... but I don't know if it works that way.

As far as ballistic hit registration goes ... I think you would need to capture video and make sure the round visually hits first ... then look to hit registration and HSR for issues. Just aiming the targeting reticle isn't sufficient if both the target and the firer are moving.

That's not how physics works.

To anyone saying MWO ballistic physics aren't real because they don't inherit your sideways velocity, they are real in that sense because when the bullet leaves your barrel it does not have a sideways velocity. It has no sideways velocity when it is travelling down the barrel. Think about it this way, if you were running sideways and stopped running as you fired the bullet would not keep going sideways because the barrel of the gun is always applying an opposite force keeping the bullet straight. For the same reason, as you move sideways the barrel always applies an opposite force so that when the bullet leaves the barrel the sideways force is neutral.

Edited by Fate 6, 19 December 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Shadow Magnet]

I did several test runs with my laser boats - the damage did slightly improve but is still far far below the few times that hit reg worked perfectly. The difference is so dramatically that it is hard to miss.

Strange enough I had a great CW match afterwards - could it be possible that PGI applied the laser hit reg fix ONLY to the Invasion game mode and not to the regular modes?

[InspectorG]

911 Inside Job, on 19 December 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

Easy fix. Go to mechlab. Remove PPC, place LPL. Problem solved....

***Warning***

Once you go Wub...you simply dont go back.

You WILL buy a Wubverine. Worse than crack. More nutritious. If you have kids...send them to live with your soon to be ex.