93 replies to this topic

[hashinshin]

Across the entire internet MWO is sort of a joke. Once the Clans came out that joke became hilarious. I wasn't here for that, but across all internet sources people joked about how pay2win MWO had become. It started with hero mechs, then they nerfed cbills, then they did pre-order packs, then t hey did the clan invasion. Culminating in an unmistakable P2W scheme.

Well CW came out and MWO got some attention again so I decided to come back despite the most adamant claims being to the OPness of Clans and how the game remains P2W. Some people said "oh Clans got nerfed it's okay now" well the first thing I see on the website is another pre-order package. Joyous.

However it's only once I start playing games that it becomes unapproachable the concept that clans are still OP. After reading these forums it becomes clear that Clans are OP. Why? Not because people say they're OP, but the degree to which people will go to defend them, something that isn't OP doesn't get defended so strongly and by so many personal attacks unless we all know that they are OP and that people just don't want to lose that.

The problem remains that MWO is still a joke across the internet. The problem is that PGI pretends that now since everyone can "get timberwolves for free" (farm for 60 hours to get 1 of the 3 you need) that the problem is gone. Well first off if something is OP it's OP no matter if it's given out as a christmas gift to everyone for actually free. Second off, no. Clan mechs are most expensive than their IS counterparts by far. The game still remains a massive grind fest taking absurd times to just get a few mechs. Worse yet though is that even if people DID want to buy in to the game they'd hit a massive ******* pay wall of $50 to get a Timber Wolf.

Now lets compare MWO to two games it always likes to compare itself to, LoL and WoT: The first comparison is obvious since PGI themselves compared their pricing scheme to LoL's and said it was fair. The problem with this one is that you do not need to buy a new rune page for every champion in LoL, and champions in LoL tend to be balanced enough against each other. Worse yet is that champions in LoL do not need endo-steel nor DHS and most of the time they don't even need an XL engine. WORST yet is that since making that comment Clantech has come out and the pricing for the strongest mechs has gone up considerably with the best clan mechs themselves not even being available for in game currency for like 6 months. The Timber Wolf is more expensive by far than the most expensive mech in the game as of the time of PGI's comment and the comment itself ignored the fact that mechs need more upgrades and parts after purchase, LoL champions do not.

The second comparison is the good one. WoT tanks are about the same price as MWO mechs, right? Except the more expensive the purchase the higher tier you fight along. A new player can buy a Centurian and go "oh boy time to play me some MWO" promptly get **** slapped by a Dire Wolf or Timber Wolf. What's more is that WoT's pricing structure is there because their XP/money curve matches up. You can level in WoT and never float XP nor money and feel like you're progressing on par. In MWO you quickly start floating XP while struggling to afford even medium mechs in a reasonable time (lord help you if you want a heavy+ clan mech.) This means the player is often left with little choice than to buy in if he wants to keep progressing. The problem then becomes the pricing. Hawken and other similar games with small playerbases place their prices low to encourage new players to buy in. MWO acts like it's an industry juggernaut when the reality is it struggles to get by.

The combination of an absolute grindfest to reach anything worth noting, the power spike in the higher priced mechs (Clans) and pre-orders constantly being released containing more powerful mechs is exactly why MWO is such a joke to the gaming community. It's P2W, Pay2NotGrind, Pay2Play in many cases since going in to CW without a top tier set of Clan mechs means you're going to be dying to many Timber Wolves, and worse yet it's feature light.

Maybe MWO can keep acting like it's an industry juggernaut, keeping it's P2W and it's pricing and everything about itself while at the same time not actually being what it thinks it is. Maybe the dedicated playerbase will keep shoving money at you. But how many more tricks does it have left in store? They won't allow any mech to be better than the Timber Wolf and CW is now "released." That's pretty much it for your strategies. Unless you make some real changes (and it's probably too late as is) you're just going to continue to alienate anyone who tries to play while at the same time discouraging your remaining players from staying.

This is all a lie! I have anecdotal evidence that this one time I used a trebuchet and killed three Timber Wolves clan tech is fine and balanced and I think the game is fair and please don't notice my clan founder insignia!

Edited by hashinshin, 21 December 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Clan Mechs are obtainable by Cbills. (And aside form 1-2 nerfed to heck)

So p2w how?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Clan Mechs are obtainable by Cbills. (And aside form 1-2 nerfed to heck)

So p2w how?

It's not Pay 2 Win. I think we're done here.

P.S. Rants are most effective when based on accurate facts.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 21 December 2014 - 10:38 AM.

[Mavairo]

How are they OP again?
If they were OP in the slightest the Clans would have run over the IS by now in CW. They've had what 2 weeks to do so?
...and yet IS Territory is Growing not shrinking.

Maybe you just suck and fail.

[Devilsfury]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Clan Mechs are obtainable by Cbills. (And aside form 1-2 nerfed to heck)

So p2w how?

For once...I agree with Bishop. /shock face You can buy all of the good Clan mechs with C-bills now.

[Golden Vulf]

If noone defends the clan being OP, then rubes start to think they are OP. Clans don't make this game P2W, if anything it would be Inner Sphere Hero Mechs behind the paywall that make it P2W.

You're a little ignorant on the subject, welcome back to the community if you are serious about playing, but if you're just here to complain and vanish, **** off already.

[hashinshin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Clan Mechs are obtainable by Cbills. (And aside form 1-2 nerfed to heck)

So p2w how?

There comes a point when the grind is so insurmountable that even being "available for in game currency" remains P2W. Think of it with a mind game with me:

There is a mech that shoots Timber Wolves. It shoot Timber Wolves that then roam the map and kill enemies for you. It has a 3 second cooldown and each shot creates another Timber Wolf. It is available for 999,999,999 cbills and 1000 MC. Pay2win? Yes. But now it's available for 500,000,000 Cbills. Still pay2win? Still yes. What about 250,000,000. Still pay2win? When is the cut off that it stops being pay2win since reasonable a player can farm for it? Timber Wolves cross that line. I imagine it would take 50 hours for your average player to get Cbills. You can say JUST GET GOOD AND FARM AND I DO 600 DAMAGE AND I GET 200,000 A MATCH WTF NEWB. but... without Newbs you wouldn't be managing to get that score would you?

So 50 hours a Timber Wolf, 3 Timber Wolves is 150 hours. And that's me being generous and assuming that no player has quit until they have all their timber wolves. 150 hours is more than steam stats would say your average player will put in to pretty much any game they don't like. So reasonably no player can get a timber wolf for in game currency before they quit the game for not liking it. Only a player who ALREADY likes the game (meaning isn't getting destroyed) will continue for that long.

And 50 hours is me being GENEROUS to your cause. Your average player who gets 30,000 or less in half his matches will take far longer.

Edited by hashinshin, 21 December 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Devilsfury, on 21 December 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

For once...I agree with Bishop. /shock face You can buy all of the good Clan mechs with C-bills now.

y thank you!

[hashinshin]

Golden Vulf, on 21 December 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

If noone defends the clan being OP, then rubes start to think they are OP. Clans don't make this game P2W, if anything it would be Inner Sphere Hero Mechs behind the paywall that make it P2W.

You're a little ignorant on the subject, welcome back to the community if you are serious about playing, but if you're just here to complain and vanish, **** off already.

It's exactly this emotional filled defense that assures me Clantech is OP.

[Bishop Steiner]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

There comes a point when the grind is so insurmountable that even being "available for in game currency" remains P2W. Think of it with a mind game with me:

There is a mech that shoots Timber Wolves. It shoot Timber Wolves that then roam the map and kill enemies for you. It has a 3 second cooldown and each shot creates another Timber Wolf. It is available for 999,999,999 cbills and 1000 MC. Pay2win? Yes. But now it's available for 500,000,000 Cbills. Still pay2win? Still yes. What about 250,000,000. Still pay2win? When is the cut off that it stops being pay2win since reasonable a player can farm for it? Timber Wolves cross that line. I imagine it would take 50 hours for your average player to get Cbills. You can say JUST GET GOOD AND FARM AND I DO 600 DAMAGE AND I GET 200,000 A MATCH WTF NEWB. but... without Newbs you wouldn't be managing to get that score would you?

So 50 hours a Timber Wolf, 3 Timber Wolves is 150 hours. And that's me being generous and assuming that no player has quit until they have all their timber wolves. 150 hours is more than steam stats would say your average player will put in to pretty much any game they don't like. So reasonably no player can get a timber wolf for in game currency before they quit the game for not liking it. Only a player who ALREADY likes the game (meaning isn't getting destroyed) will continue for that long.

can I get some of whatever you're smoking?

Your "example" is taken to such a hyperbolistic extreme as to have no value.

*SMH*

Do people these days not even understand the basics of good debating?

[Golden Vulf]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

bunch of stupid ****

The last few contests and free premium time awards have made the "grind" anything but insurmountable.

You realize that for the next 2 weeks there is a pretty good contest going on, right?

*edit: Just realized I was giving you the benefit of the doubt despite reality clubbing me in the face, oh what a fool I have been!

Edited by Golden Vulf, 21 December 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[DrRip]

Actually I believe you didn't play the game and this must be a "great effort X-Mas" Troll.

If not just one remark from my side:

Mist Lynx, Hellbringer, Gargoyle were the last released Mechs and they are just a rough laugh in terms of competitive play. Except Hero Mechs you can get everything by C-Bills und up to Heavy Mechs it is no real "grind" to gather enough C-bills.
So your Idea, that newly released Mechs are more powerfull is simply wrong (just look at the e.g. MRBC loadouts used).

I didn't read anything which I can agree to, and I am playing sinc 2 Years now.

my 2 cents

and I still guess it is a troll having too much time

[hashinshin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

can I get some of whatever you're smoking?

Your "example" is taken to such a hyperbolistic extreme as to have no value.

*SMH*

Do people these days not even understand the basics of good debating?

My example is why MWO is the joke of mech games. It's why no matter how many gains MWO makes it will be a P2W joke. My example is why if you go outside of the heavily moderated bubble of mwomercs.com nobody will look at MWO seriously any more.

[Bishop Steiner]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

My example is why MWO is the joke of mech games. It's why no matter how many gains MWO makes it will be a P2W joke. My example is why if you go outside of the heavily moderated bubble of mwomercs.com nobody will look at MWO seriously any more.

so if it's such a joke why are you here wasting our time and yours?

Seems like the jokes on you.

*shrug*

Buh bye.

[hashinshin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

so if it's such a joke why are you here wasting our time and yours?

Seems like the jokes on you.

*shrug*

Buh bye.

Because MWO can be saved. PGI just needs to realize what has to be done.

[Bulletsponge0]

wait...

how does something that is available for in game currency qualify for pay to win again?

investing time =/= pay to win

you can still get the timberwolf for exactly $0.00....which means its free, so long as you invest time

[Mavairo]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

It's exactly this emotional filled defense that assures me Clantech is OP.

I think you better go look at the faction map. Notice how small clan territory is now?

That's Pure Clan Mechs vs Pure IS Mechs.
Even the worst faring IS faction, is at worst holding the clans at bay.
The Best IS factions are already pushing deep into what had been Clan Territory at the start.
My victory rate, as a pure IS mech player is well over 80 percent in Community Warfare. (89.88% to be exact)

I only play vs Clans.
I have slain DWs in a Dragon. I have slain Timberwolves, Suckoners, Hellbringers, Direwolves, warhawks you name it.

If you sit there and stare at their faces like a ******* you die. Rightly so. If you know even the basics of how to spread damage around, clan mechs become far less powerful.

The only reason this game would be a "joke" to people is because, they suck. Pretty hardcore at that. Most people that ragequit this game? Did just that rage quit, because they couldn't hack it.

[Bishop Steiner]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Because MWO can be saved. PGI just needs to realize what has to be done.

And you are the Gaming and Marketing expert to do it. Right.

Maybe if you put together a less rambling, more fact based mission statement for your OP, PGI, or well, any of the rest of us, might take it a little more seriously.

Because so far, the only "joke" anyone has heard is your opening argument.

Please, clean it up, focus it, support it with facts and details, and such, and we'll be happy to listen.

[FupDup]

Not all Clan mechs are created equal.

Clan mech effectiveness varies wildly and has a lot of ups and downs. We have the obvious outliers of the TBR, SCR, and DWF that tend to be the most desirable robots in their respective classes. And then at the very bottom, we have mechs like the Clan lights that are worse than most IS lights. The MLX in particular has been argued by some to be inferior to the Locust. And we also have some that are roughly on-par, such as the WHK.

The IS also has variation of course, but it's not quite as drastic as the Clan variation is. The IS is somewhat more stable in terms of across-the-board chassis utility. This is especially apparent in CW where nearly everybody uses nothing but TBR, SCR, and/or HBR in Clan drop decks, while the IS sees a lot more variety (especially in that they use lights and assaults much more often).


...The moral of the story is that mech balance should probably be handled on a case-by-case basis rather than sweeping an entire faction at a time. PGI already tried to sweep whole factions at a time with the previous Clan nerfs, which unsurprisingly didn't do much of anything to dethrone the "Holy Trinity" but it wafflestomped the already sub-par models (such as lights, Nova, Summoner...). If there are a specific few Gundams rising above the rest, address those specific Gundams with targeted chassis quirks rather than blanket nerf the entire faction.

Edited by FupDup, 21 December 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[hashinshin]

Mavairo, on 21 December 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

I think you better go look at the faction map. Notice how small clan territory is now?

That's Pure Clan Mechs vs Pure IS Mechs.
Even the worst faring IS faction, is at worst holding the clans at bay.
The Best IS factions are already pushing deep into what had been Clan Territory at the start.
My victory rate, as a pure IS mech player is well over 80 percent in Community Warfare. (89.88% to be exact)

I only play vs Clans.
I have slain DWs in a Dragon. I have slain Timberwolves, Suckoners, Hellbringers, Direwolves, warhawks you name it.

If you sit there and stare at their faces like a ******* you die. Rightly so. If you know even the basics of how to spread damage around, clan mechs become far less powerful.

The only reason this game would be a "joke" to people is because, they suck. Pretty hardcore at that. Most people that ragequit this game? Did just that rage quit, because they couldn't hack it.

https://i.imgur.com/mr9gxaN.gif

...? Clans have gained territory every single day. The facts show the complete opposite of your statement is true AND that the very facts you call upon show you are wrong.