45 replies to this topic

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

i heard rumors that this game is gonna hit Steam soon. I really dont wanna mess around in my matches with those thousands of new players who think this is some sort of Call of duty.

Elo doesnt work already in public matches. Rank System would help to have a better game experience for Both kind of players. Newbees and "experts" while they are seperated from each other. Perhaps 3 or 4 Ranks. When grouped up the average rank counts

Edit:

I dont mean a ranked highscore btw- just 3-4 ranks for Match maker.

Newbees-lower average- higher average- best players


An example how elo works and what i mean by not wanting to get grouped up with ppl who cant eevn break 200 dmg . 9 PPl on my Team with sub 201 dmg. Ggclose

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 23 December 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[jlawsl]

This is kind of an elitist attitude to have. Why would you need to separate yourself just for the sake of showing that you aren't new? I like how this game gives you stats, and that's it. It tells you how well you do in specific areas and you can compare your scores on a case by case by personal average basis. What is the need for some self-congratulating little rank? Titles work, and so do badges to show how long you have been playing.

Also, this isn't pointed at you per se, but, just because someone has been playing longer, doesn't mean they are worth a darn as a mech pilot.

[Raggedyman]

Elo works fine as it is, not perfect but well enough, and it keeps people separated way more than reducing things to 4 ranks would. A visible rank system would be nice though.

[Joseph Mallan]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 22 December 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

i heard rumors that this game is gonna hit Steam soon. I really dont wanna mess around in my matches with those thousands of new players who think this is some sort of Call of duty.

Elo doesnt work already in public matches. Rank System would help to have a better game experience for Both kind of players. Newbees and "experts" while they are seperated from each other. Perhaps 3 or 4 Ranks. When grouped up the average rank counts

Every unit has it's Green members, trying to remove that takes practicing/training with said Boots. So quit trying to separate the fresh meat from the salted.

[Mudhutwarrior]

We are all the same decaying organic matter. So no. Rank yourself as an army of none.

[KodiakGW]

For all of you who are going against this idea, consider the other point of this argument. It's not fair for new players to be matched with those who have fully leveled mechs, with all the best modules, and are extremely seasoned in piloting them. I can say for a fact that the current grind married with the "wait for Elo to find you a match" system cannot be good for someone who is trying to figure out the game. I know because it is keeping a few of my friends from playing.

There have been a number of suggestions on how to fix this, many of them are good. One can only assume why they are not being tried.

Green members of a unit are always taken through training with seasoned pilots IRL. in the gaming world, you learn by watching seasoned players in the kill cam, then try to mirror them. That is not really available (can only watch allies until they die). Another option is to join a unit and get trained. I've mentioned before that I migrated from using a joystick to keyboard/mouse on a MW4:Merc unlimited respawn server. A few of those for new players might help them get used to the game faster.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I think we should have ranking as well. There are so many people on this forum that think they are better than they really are, possibly including myself, that rankings would really be a wake up call to many of them.

Also it would be alot easier to talk balance if those involved in the discussion understood where the perspective was coming from. For example, things that effect the low ELO players don't effect high ELO and vice versa so understanding the context would go a long way to making discussions productive.

Also this is a PvP game for god's sake. The whole point of any competitive game is competing and without some sort of ranking or leaderboard, how they hell do you know where you stand or even if you need to do something different to improve.

For example in WoTs, I had about a 1500 WN8 score which put me into the the top 25-30% of so of players and knowing that I was only in the top 25-30% allowed me to realize I needed to improve if I wanted to be in the top 10% and before I quit, I found myself steadily improving. Also having that high of score allowed for my insights into the game to be taken seriously because my score proved I wasn't talking out my rear and blaming things on the game when my skill was actually the issue. Probably the most important thing was I knew exactly where I stood in the game without having to guess which as a fairly competitive player was a very important fact to know. Honestly I hate not knowing how I compare to other players in MWO, hate it with a passion.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 22 December 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[PauloBR]

Wow.. Are they rejecting the idea?!
It's the same idea of the ELO!

New players shouldn't be grouped with better players because the other side will have they too.
Not because we are special, but they need to get some skill and better mechs before facing the older players.

IDK about ranks, just make sure the ELO is working.

[Tristan Winter]

MWO never had a strong competitive community. The competitive players are a relatively small group. Most of the players seem to be 30-50 years old, nursing their their babies, doing the dishes and helping their kids with geometry homework while they play. They're not interested in any kind of public Elo, public rankings or anything of the sort. They just want to have fun. And public rankings will apparently rob them of their fun, for whatever reason.

[JohnnyWayne]

jlawsl, on 22 December 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

This is kind of an elitist attitude to have.

No, I had the same discussion with a friend for 2 days now. We both agree that the average newbe from steam would not cope with this game. Too much CoD out there. The forum will be flooded with tears that this is no 1shit in your face game. It was the same as heat penalties were implemented. The first wave of CoD kids left back then.

This is not elitism this is realism. It was seen before.

What I am afraid of is, that these new players will flood the forums with their "this game is too hard" tears and destroy our Mechwarrior with their expession of their "special" needs...

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 22 December 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

Rank system is good for PGI because ranking systems are a good way to turn casual gamers into junkies.

Back when Modern Warfare 2 was out I was on my 3rd prestige before I finally put the controller down and asked what I was doing with my life.

It works the same way as leveling up in MMORPGs.

[Kal Solar]

Rank system would be great, even if it only showed the total number of matches played. That would help organizing a casual group. Herding cats is easier when you know each cat a bit better.

[Heffay]

I think this would be a good idea. Tie it to Elo, just break Elo into brackets. Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum, along with corresponding titles or other identifying marks. The scoreboard could show the number of each ranks you have in each match. Would go a long way to help reinforcing that the matches are overall balanced in the public queue, and give the competitive people a little more to help them stand out.

[Bishop Steiner]

PauloBR, on 22 December 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Wow.. Are they rejecting the idea?!
It's the same idea of the ELO!

New players shouldn't be grouped with better players because the other side will have they too.
Not because we are special, but they need to get some skill and better mechs before facing the older players.

IDK about ranks, just make sure the ELO is working.

Yes and no.

A hard lock ranking tier system is a problem for many units, as we need to mix new and old guys together. Any ranking system would have to have the ability to checkbox "play outside of rank" of some sort to allow mixed rank units. (And this could just as easily be exploited by a "compy" looking to farm, probably)

Elo allows for the average of the unit, supposedly, whereas ranking (if I understand correctly) would segregate more. How does one get around that?

I'm not against it, per se, but want to see a well thought out version that doesn't force players from dropping with friends just because of "ranks".

(Would also see rank based purely on solo queue info.... since there are quite a few decent players being carried by the few elites in their teams. If it's going to be "honest" one needs to know what each player can do without 11 buddies holding his jockstrap.)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 December 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Heffay, on 22 December 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

I think this would be a good idea. Tie it to Elo, just break Elo into brackets. Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum, along with corresponding titles or other identifying marks. The scoreboard could show the number of each ranks you have in each match. Would go a long way to help reinforcing that the matches are overall balanced in the public queue, and give the competitive people a little more to help them stand out.

Doesn't this keep ME(probably a silver) from gaming with our units Gold Members and above?

[JohnnyWayne]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 December 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Doesn't this keep ME(probably a silver) from gaming with our units Gold Members and above?

That is a good point, but it works somehow in CSGO. We should think a little about it.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 22 December 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

MWO never had a strong competitive community. The competitive players are a relatively small group. Most of the players seem to be 30-50 years old, nursing their their babies, doing the dishes and helping their kids with geometry homework while they play. They're not interested in any kind of public Elo, public rankings or anything of the sort. They just want to have fun. And public rankings will apparently rob them of their fun, for whatever reason.

This is because the game doesn't cater to competitive players with things like LEADERBOARDS. Seriously a PvP game with some sort of ranking system isn't much of a PvP game, at least in the eyes of most competitive PvP players.

[SixstringSamurai]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 22 December 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

i heard rumors that this game is gonna hit Steam soon. I really dont wanna mess around in my matches with those thousands of new players who think this is some sort of Call of duty.

Elo doesnt work already in public matches. Rank System would help to have a better game experience for Both kind of players. Newbees and "experts" while they are seperated from each other. Perhaps 3 or 4 Ranks. When grouped up the average rank counts

Edit:

I dont mean a ranked highscore btw- just 3-4 ranks for Match maker.

Newbees-lower average- higher average- best players

Problem with rank is it goes up while skill does not and actually encourages players who are terrible to not play at all after a certain point.

[Joseph Mallan]

JohnnyWayne, on 22 December 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

That is a good point, but it works somehow in CSGO. We should think a little about it.

I disagree. Very few Armies are made up of equally skilled members. Oh they try, but lets face it even among Special Forces there are the good the bad and How did HE pass training?

At least within their own ranks.

[Heffay]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 December 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Doesn't this keep ME(probably a silver) from gaming with our units Gold Members and above?

No. There is no reason to make the queues separate by rank. Just needs to make sure that the team Elo (aka average rank) is similar between the two teams. Ideally it would put all Golds or all Silvers into the same match for public queues, but obviously the group queue would see a lot more cross tier players. It's why the Elo spread on the group queue is larger too, since it's pretty tough to match up groups evenly.