72 replies to this topic

[Vercinix]

Personally, I don’t care if the pugs blow up the gate generator or open the gate for the Attacker - it only take 10 seconds to destroy them anyway.

The problem with the spawns is that they are placed directly in combat corridors and in many cases right next to the base generators the Defense are intended to destroy. The fact that a player lands right in front of an entire team is unfortunate but will not stop me or really anyone from killing them.

My apologies if people feel bad about any situation that the 228th has put them in where they feel slighted because we wanted their planet. Props to Davion for being the best sports about the situation and seeing it as learning experience (even though we used them to find exploits). We have posted all the loopholes we have found in videos and SS to the community and PGI to help improve CW. 228 has also taken contracts with one of the weakest and most attacked houses every time to help stabilize their position in CW. Forgive us and our zealousness

We have worked hard and trained hard to make people recognize and fear us. I will not apologies for using game mechanics in place (that aren’t bugs or against the rules) because someone doesn’t think it’s “fair” or morally wrong. Just like how I agreed with you that the method that caused this entire thread is viable (ignoring ToS semantics) even though I personally dislike it. Heck I even tried to find a middle ground for both sides so everyone could get what they want.

I hold to no “high road” as you call it, there is a well-deserved reputation that my members have earned. It unfortunately happens that this reputation makes people to use the delay tactic on us *shrug*. So stop picking at peoples posts and try to help the community instead.

Last post since this thread is going nowhere, o7
Vercinix

Edited by Vercinix, 28 December 2014 - 04:25 PM.

[SlyStalker]

Give the defenders slow-firing artillery or air strikes with cooldown that have a minimum range and this problem will probably disappear. Make it have a minimum range so that once the attackers move out of their DZ they'll no longer come under indirect fire but will have to fight the defenders.

Edited by SlyStalker, 28 December 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

I'm not sure I see the problem. You should ber happy you are successfully defending the base. If that isn't good enough for you and you want to end the match before teh 30 minutes is up then you have the option of leading out and engaging the attackers. It has been established that you can get out without JJ's from both bases after all.

The key to your team lock is in your hands.

[Kjudoon]

ThomasMarik, on 28 December 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

I'm not sure I see the problem. You should ber happy you are successfully defending the base. If that isn't good enough for you and you want to end the match before teh 30 minutes is up then you have the option of leading out and engaging the attackers. It has been established that you can get out without JJ's from both bases after all.

The key to your team lock is in your hands.

[PurplePaladin]

The perfect example of this situation happened to me tonight:

I see the new patch, and I read it helps CW wait time. Great! I try it, and low an behold, I get in a match in about 10 minutes. It ends up being a pug (us) vs a 12 man premade. No problem. I knew we were going to lose, and I was going to have fun losing, fighting my best and having fun doing so.

But that did not happen. At about the 10 minute mark, we were getting slaughtered (as expected), and I was all set to type GG when the other team won. But they did not try to win. They camped right in front of where the drop ships landed, and one-shotted us as the doors opened. And since you can't "sink" when your team all drops, they just picked us off one by one.

You were lucky to get even one shot off before 2 or 4 mechs sitting right in front of the door, waiting there, destroyed you. And so it went for almost 20 minutes. But I decided to try to ignore it. Shake it off and just go do another CW. SAME exact 12-man; SAME exact thing happened.

That was not strategy; that was not tactics; it is farming and griefing. And it's driving away many, many potential CW players.

[ApolloKaras]

PurplePaladin, on 21 January 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

The perfect example of this situation happened to me tonight:



That was not strategy; that was not tactics; it is farming and griefing. And it's driving away many, many potential CW players.

How else will those folks make cbills. You need to blame PGI for how they made the mechanic. If you just push right in gank the generator, no one is getting any money for that drop.

[Harathan]

Saxie, on 21 January 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

How else will those folks make cbills. You need to blame PGI for how they made the mechanic. If you just push right in gank the generator, no one is getting any money for that drop.

True enough. In an objective based mode, where your contract is to defend or attack an objective, that only thing that should generate big bucks is succeeding at that objective. When you can get more nuyen farming kills in an objective mode, something is broken.

[Kjudoon]

Saxie, on 21 January 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

How else will those folks make cbills. You need to blame PGI for how they made the mechanic. If you just push right in gank the generator, no one is getting any money for that drop.

And that's why R&R benefits the team with the least amount of damage.

And we get back round to why it needs it's return and a serious rebalancing.

[ApolloKaras]

Kjudoon, on 21 January 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

And that's why R&R benefits the team with the least amount of damage.

And we get back round to why it needs it's return and a serious rebalancing.

If you make it unprofitable to have a good match, people will just turn away from CW altogether. This game is nothing but a giant grind fest.

[DaynarFaol]

Attack pays less if you let it. Defense pays more if you let it. Tis that simple. I tend to make 400,000 or more on ave. on a good defense which is about the same as 2 decent PUG drops for me. Attack I tend to break about 150,000. The mechanic is not really broken as it is not fully defined. Every contract is set up as pretty near the same amount. If/when they add things like combat bonuses and the like for "optional" objectives say a bonus for Omega being at 100% or a bonus for the attacker taking out 50% or more of the defenders mechs. Then you will see a shift in tactics.

Right now, at this moment; we are seeing a very bare bones structure to CW.

As to delaying tactics. While I, personally, wont sit around for 30 minutes on the attack because I like being effective and that means taking the objective I will USE them to drive the defenders nuts.

Early delays are to defended against the Anti-Zerg wolfpacks that are being developed. If you are going to jump a bunch of lights an Zerg rush my LZ expect for me to chose the ground I will engage you on and expect me to rip you apart as you try to stop us.

Also over time I have watched and learned the mindset and tactical thinking of different units and pilots. I WILL use what I learn to give me the tactical edge I need.

If I know a Unit or a Member of has little ability to be patience then I will use that to screw with their heads.

Trained in different forms of martial arts over the years and one thing all of them have taught me is that the patient warrior is the one that generally wins.

I will never just run the clock out on the attack. That is rather dumb imo and it is not my objective. The generators are.

I will however delay if I feel it will best serve my overall tactical doctrine.

Done this many a times and the amusing/sad part is that it tends to work better on the "elite" formed teams then the PUGS.

Such units tend to be hyper aggressive and focused on "scoring" which has no place in CW. I honestly wish they would remove the Kills, Damage, and Match Score screen from CW. Have it so a PLAYER knows how well they did individual of course under player stats, but the CW score screen should be the TOTAL kills, assist and damage of the TEAM. Period.

People continue to think that the PUG style of game play is going to translate into the CW world. This is an incorrect belief.

You maybe able to blow every mech away in the PQ in less then 5 mins, but if you are unable to think tactically in CW then you will fail.

Please continue to believe that it must always be "Rush the enemy and pew pew."

Because every time you do I will use that against you and while I will not always get to my objective I will win. Because I will control the battlefield. I will dictate how and when events happen and I will hold the bloody line against all comers.

Sure you may beat me in a single fight, but if you beat me in every fight and my faction still takes your world who really has won?

And that is the point. This is WARFARE.

It an't pretty and on another thread I suggested a way to stop spawn camping on the attackers side (defenders side not sure, but then again if you break the defenders that badly that you have the TIME to spawn camp it says interesting things about the defenders.)

[Ductus Hase]

A match is 30 minutes - attacker AND defender signed up for that.

I suggest to bind any mech partaking in CW for 30 minutes no matter how long the hot fighting continued.
Ghost Drops would be less efficient.
Min/Max and Meta Builds would be way more expensive and rare instead of common, giving PUGs better chances.
Stalling would not be as usefull without losing all of it´s effect (you still bind Players who might drop in different mechs - there needs to be the option to drop with different mechs while your first lance is still bound though).


Meanwhile...
Going AFK or DCing is against the rules - delaying isn´t.
Practically speaking... if the attackers shoot those turrets on the walls they have attacked the defenders.
To soften the enemy up with sniping and lrm or to lay ambushes are legit tactics.

If Defenders want to decide when to fight... they got to engage. Else it´s their good right to lie in ambush as well - they even get the win for doing so.

A light rush in minute 25 is sufficient to win the match... IS might even rush in minute 27, but that is risky. This is more easy if the defenders left base.

I don´t even think that´s boring - it´s a battle of positioning, patience and psychology.

Against spawncamping on either side PGI should allow us to drop when we are organized to do so - even to refuse to drop and surrender.
One should be allowed to drop coordinate in order to make spawncamping less efficient.
One should be allowed to surrender because getting slaugthered in order for someone else to grind should be optional.

[Caleb Brightmore]

Scion Koga, on 26 December 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

Howdy,

I've seen this occurring in the last week or so of CW, and i'm sorry to admit that I have been on team of mixed units where the attackers refused to fight in order to keep a full 12 man team locked into a match for 30 minutes.

I've seen this done to many good teams who only wish to have a decent fight, and are forced to wait around. I can't remember the team that I faced, but you have my apology for wasting your time.

Therefore, no member of the Kell Hounds will ever consider this a strategy when dealing with 12 man teams. I also encourage other teams that think the same to pledge that their teams will follow a similar model.

We will do our best also to find and catalog any circumstance of this happening and give it to the proper moderators and admins.

We are here to play, and if you are intentionally preventing others from doing so, you are in the wrong.

Scion Koga

Loremaster
Kell Hounds

Refusing to attack or....refusing to make it easy to get roflstomped by a 12 man and not opening thier doors for them which would hurt them?

There are too many ways to use this strategy.
.
Not breaching the doors is a valid strategy and well if its close and time is low planet wise and they are defense but on Counterattack slowing enemy wins is actually part of the game.

As a 12 man you have two options....Eject and come over the wall with lighter mechs and wipe them out, or pray on a ban that will never come and possibly violate the TOS by being rude in chat etc.

Many a time we have come over the wall in lights on defense and it was gee gee leg em and run away, it works well.

No one will ever get banned for not engaging a heavily fortified position head on, vs vastly a superior opponent.

If they want you bad enough they will come out and fight you.

The flip side is the defense can just wait you out and force an attack or you lose on time.

It works both ways and no offense but your not wanting to wait 30 mins isn't their concern.

Their feelings are just as valid as yours are.

12 mans have coms and an organised unit, and pugs are supposed to enter the lions den just because?

Sorry my friend it doesn't work that way.

You want the win but you expect them to make it fast for you and that is a problem your DC will have to solve if it is ever used against you, as it is a completely valid strategy.

It's just one that made you mad and you dont understand, which actually makes it a great strategy as it was used clearly to great effect.

Imagine what the defense thought

In short NO ONE prevented you from playing, they simply prevented the defense from playing the way thier strategy was designed and that my friend is how war is supposed to be fought.

The Art Of War by Sun Tsu

Chatpter 3: Attack By Strategem Verse 3

3. Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy’s plans; the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy’s forces; the next in order is to attack the enemy’s army in the field; and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities.


Just saying

Edited by Caleb Brightmore, 30 January 2015 - 05:18 AM.

[Crockdaddy]

Scion Koga, on 26 December 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

Howdy,

I've seen this occurring in the last week or so of CW, and i'm sorry to admit that I have been on team of mixed units where the attackers refused to fight in order to keep a full 12 man team locked into a match for 30 minutes.

I've seen this done to many good teams who only wish to have a decent fight, and are forced to wait around. I can't remember the team that I faced, but you have my apology for wasting your time.

Therefore, no member of the Kell Hounds will ever consider this a strategy when dealing with 12 man teams. I also encourage other teams that think the same to pledge that their teams will follow a similar model.

We will do our best also to find and catalog any circumstance of this happening and give it to the proper moderators and admins.

We are here to play, and if you are intentionally preventing others from doing so, you are in the wrong.

Scion Koga

Loremaster
Kell Hounds

Strategically it is a valid tactic. Night's Scorn has faced this tactic dozens of times. Essentially the enemy team knows they have little chance of success. We just suck it up and take it to them. Heck, during most attacks we end up camping their last 12 mechs in drop shits ... why can't they work to delay us? We also sometimes on attack go straight for the throat and win in under 3 minutes. It is part of the game. Do I always like it ... well no of course not. Just because I don't like it doesn't make it wrong or right.