70 replies to this topic

[Cyborx]

Kirkland Langue, on 31 December 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

There are basically 2 types of "rewards" that MWO could use:
1. Participation Rewards.
2. Excellence Rewards.

It sounds like you want more of #2 to be introduced. I'd argue that Cbills and EXP should fall into category #1, and the LP and Faction Ranks should fall into category #2.

I think they should rework the Faction Ranks. Remove the LP levels for all of the ranks past #10 and instead have a Rank structure which ranks players based upon LP. There should only be one, or a few, players at the highest Faction Rank and those players should be given tools to direct which planets are attacked in CW.

Honestly, there are no excellence rewards in this game.
Excellence must be at least uncommon or how i´d like it to be "super rare" like" super epic" or close to "unbelievably secret" and very hard to obtain.
Those LPs are common bull... that everyone will drown in sooner or later without even having a use for them. LPs are absolutly worthless and simply another grind without use at all.

An excellence reward is an Icon on your mechs chest for winning a tournament. Something that makes you freeze when you see it on the atlas´s chest that´s aiming an Ac20 in your face. "sth that gives you one of those "oh-****!!?! Where does this guy come from, im so doomed"-moments. Sth that makes you proud of having earned it by beating the best of the best, by winning league matches...
True excellence is not grindable, it only depends on skill and challenge, success and victory!

Edited by Cyborx, 31 December 2014 - 01:04 PM.

[Apnu]

Krivvan, on 31 December 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

The PPC + GR Dire is not Meta. Clan PPCs in general aren't meta. The old trend was ERML + LPL or Gauss, but it's currently moving towards ERLL. Personally I hope it also shifts towards including more SRM brawler builds.

And there was quite a bit of testing done beforehand including "comp" players. A lot of the time problems are found and understood but there is no time or ability to fix them.

Two things.

My expirence in CW has only been counter-attacking 12-man clans. Oddly Jade Falcon. Granted the holidays have limited my games, still... The matches I've seen had the clans parking a couple of DWF's with ERPPC & GR and TBR's with cERLL and cLRM40 on the high ground and blowing holes in any mech that tries the gate generators. Especially on Vault where 3 players can hold the gates from one position. Seems pretty meta to me.

PGI has stated, Russ touched on this in the last town hall, they want more actual assaulting and brawling, yet the game's general meta is direct fire at long ranges. Hence the GR and PPC comment. The map designs for Invasion actually promote sniper and LRM and arty -- the opposite of PGI's stated goals.

Second, if you what you say is true, either Invasion was designed this way for comps playing clans, or PGI, again, rushed a product out that is not even close to complete. If comps were giving input on Vault, they were punking PGI, plain and simple.

It's the limited mechanic of CW right now, that's the problem. But, the salt in the wound is we are playing for real with a system that I'd rate 25% complete. We are playing for keeps with just two maps and a 1:1 assault ration and nothing else?!

How hard is it to make the attacking tem kill the big canon then put them in a conquest contest to win, call it 'securing the LZ' and then a skirmish match to drive the defenders of the planet's sector to win that shard?

[AlmightyAeng]

Cyborx, on 31 December 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Honestly, there are no excellence rewards in this game.
Excellence must be at least uncommon or how i´d like it to be "super rare" like" super epic" or close to "unbelievably secret" and very hard to obtain.
Those LPs are common bull... that everyone will drown in sooner or later without even having a use for them. LPs are absolutly worthless and simply another grind without use at all.

An excellence reward is an Icon on your mechs chest for winning a tournament. Something that makes you freeze when you see it on the atlas´s chest that´s aiming an Ac20 in your face. "sth that gives you one of those "oh-****!!?! Where does this guy come from, im so doomed"-moments. Sth that makes you proud of having earned it by beating the best of the best, by winning league matches...
True excellence is not grindable, it only depends on skill and challenge, success and victory!

What, you mean you don't **** your pants when you see a gold mech?

[Cyborx]

Ghost Badger, on 31 December 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

What, you mean you don't **** your pants when you see a gold mech?

Those Gold mechs are kind of a huge joke - a completly mistaken designfailure. But still:

" I thank every owner of a golden mech for donating so much money to MWO/BT"

- it´s just a pity that PGI´s only concern is milking the community´s wallets instead of caring about a well working COMPLETE concept.

[Lucky Noob]

Cyborx, on 31 December 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

[LORD]Proton´s Gladiator
salvadged in the glorious Solaris final grand championship december 3050

First, impressive Post, many nice Ideas and an Big Dream, well written

To the Quote:

I wonder who s able to Salvage that Parts

[Krivvan]

Apnu, on 31 December 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

My expirence in CW has only been counter-attacking 12-man clans. Oddly Jade Falcon. Granted the holidays have limited my games, still... The matches I've seen had the clans parking a couple of DWF's with ERPPC & GR and TBR's with cERLL and cLRM40 on the high ground and blowing holes in any mech that tries the gate generators. Especially on Vault where 3 players can hold the gates from one position. Seems pretty meta to me.

It isn't meta since it isn't the most effective thing one could be doing. At the moment, anytime LRMs are mentioned it already pretty much isn't meta.

Honestly, I'd recommend looking at streams of CW and watch what is more effective when you aren't the one playing.

(I hate how I did this game, but it's the only video I have handy to illustrate a point and I'm avoiding showing 12-player vs pugs stomps)



Watch what NW was doing on the defending team, and contrast with the type of defense you see in this game:



Notice how worthless the CLRMs were for the defending team here.

And if the impression you're getting is "Clan too OP", then watch the games from SJR's perspective playing as IS (2:18:30 if the link doesn't work right):

http://www.twitch.tv...921?t=02h18m30s

Edited by Krivvan, 31 December 2014 - 01:39 PM.

[Mystere]

Apnu, on 31 December 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

My central problem with CW is the notion of winning. One assault, then sitting back and defending forever to gain points. That's not the way it should be.

Which is why the initial defense of all 15 planetary installations is key. It is actually a close enough abstraction of an actual invasion. And it is using only one game mode at that.

But that is not to say we do not need more game modes. We do need more, plus more maps.

[MischiefSC]

Krivvan, on 31 December 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

It isn't meta since it isn't the most effective thing one could be doing. At the moment, anytime LRMs are mentioned it already pretty much isn't meta.

Honestly, I'd recommend looking at streams of CW and watch what is more effective when you aren't the one playing.

(I hate how I did this game, but it's the only video I have handy to illustrate a point and I'm avoiding showing 12-player vs pugs stomps)



Watch what NW was doing on the defending team, and contrast with the type of defense you see in this game:



Notice how worthless the CLRMs were for the defending team here.

And if the impression you're getting is "Clan too OP", then watch the games from SJR's perspective playing as IS (2:18:30 if the link doesn't work right):

http://www.twitch.tv...921?t=02h18m30s

One problem I'm running into with IS is that I need a completely different deck for is vs is, is vs clans, also for each depend on if I'm running pug or in a team. In fact i learned the hard way the other night that if I'm only with 3 or 4 teammates I really need to deck out for pugging and only bring 1 "kill the objective" mech. Also I'm sure you've noticed that erppc 9s are only really dangerous in packs for example.

When to are having trouble trying to get pugs to not being lrm victors (they are a thing now. I've seen several) trying to explain what works is vs is compared to clans is a bridge too far.

[Mystere]

Apnu, on 31 December 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

It's the limited mechanic of CW right now, that's the problem. But, the salt in the wound is we are playing for real with a system that I'd rate 25% complete. We are playing for keeps with just two maps and a 1:1 assault ration and nothing else?!

It is only the first game mode and two maps. More are to come. And if PGI finds the need to reset the map, they will do so.

Would you rather that PGI released nothing for a year or so?

[Krivvan]

MischiefSC, on 31 December 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

In fact i learned the hard way the other night that if I'm only with 3 or 4 teammates I really need to deck out for pugging and only bring 1 "kill the objective" mech.

I pretend the objective doesn't even exist when the team is mostly pugs most of the time. It ends up always going wrong to go for generator pushes and just typing out random orders doesn't help, so I settle for preparing for pure attrition and hoping to just carry the team past defender advantage.

[ZenFool]

There are a couple of things about this post that really bother me and I think the posters need to take a step back and think about.

1. My personal experience as a player in CW has been much much much better than in the other game modes. Looking at pre CW posts I'd say I'm not the only one that would have a string of 12-0 stomps in pugland. None of my matches in CW have gone 48-0, even when I was in a pug group versus some of the top teams.

2. I've noticed a dramatic improvement in pug cooperation in CW. Again, personal experience, but it seems I'm not the only one who's seen this. I've had my hair pulling games, but ANY teamwork is better than the typical pug game in previous modes.

3. There has been a huge uptick in the number of people joining groups. It won't make them instantly competitive, but its a start. I have a feeling a lot of solo players were just waiting for CW to do this.

4. We all know this is beta. There is a lot of room for improvement, but that doesn't mean CW is DOA or MWO is DOA. In fact, it seems CW has breathed new life into the game. I've seen people on that haven't been here in a year or more. Please reserve your "Its killing the game!" comments for a time when the game ISN'T gaining numbers.

Edited by ZenFool, 31 December 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Krivvan, on 31 December 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

I pretend the objective doesn't even exist when the team is mostly pugs most of the time. It ends up always going wrong to go for generator pushes and just typing out random orders doesn't help, so I settle for preparing for pure attrition and hoping to just carry the team past defender advantage.

If I could John Wayne through like you that would worth great. I focus on trying to get pugs to play like a 12 man with 2 minutes of direction. You would be surprised at how often it works. When it doesn't I hone my skills on hitting objectives while functionally solo, die early and spectate to see other builds and how people play them.

Sometimes you get a group of pugs that comes in heavy an ready to win. That is always amazing. Otherwise it's about 'can I get beta gate open solo? Can i cut a run in this mech to gen 2 and do enough damage?'

Mostly I'm eager for the contest to end.

[Honar]

wow i may have read that, if you used paragraphs so it wasn't a wall of text ...

[Nick Makiaveli]

Kirkland Langue, on 31 December 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

Hit the edit key and try again.

or


Wow.


Take your pick.

This. Plus I have no clue who Kaspar is, and from that wall of text ( I am NOT a TL;Dr type and I mock mercilessly those who are) but damn. That isn't a wall...it's a sheer cliff with lava running down it....

[oldradagast]

Mystere, on 31 December 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

It's because mediocre people demanded that they be rewarded for their mediocrity, and PGI complied. I cringe every time I see someone complain about how low the c-bills/hour rate is ... while constantly losing.

Or in other words, it's basically this:

Two points to consider:

1) This game has a horrible onboarding process. We all know people need to get better at the game, but right now, the game itself offers very little in the way of learning other than "getting wrecked and trying again" and hopefully joining a unit (who will take lousy players) and learning that way.

It should come as no surprise that new players who are getting creamed over and over again and making very little money for their efforts would complain about it.

2) It is only a game. People rant and rave about "participation trophies" but they forget that it is a GAME. No real money is on the line here. Nobody is asking to be paid in REAL money for being a poor MWO player. Sure, we can set up the earning structure so that only the really good players can make a lot of money in the game to "get rid of participation trophies" - but that will be of precious little value once the majority of the players leave for other games.

Long story short, while being a good player should have clearly better rewards, punishing the "bads" or even the average - and most common - mediocre player is a foolish business strategy. It costs PGI nothing to keep the cbill earning rate decent even for mediocre players... but it will cost them game if only good players can earn enough cbills to have fun.

And before I get the usual "you're just a badz!" I have no problems earning plenty of cbills, but I pity anyone just starting out in this game.

[mekabuser]

OP pretty much got it.. Its Very OLD school post. SOmething i used to read when the game first started to falter. <pretty quickly>

Truth is, the pace of development of this game is, has , and probably always will be a joke.
That in conjunction with alot of bad thinking.

A handfull of guys at mektek and mwll did a much much better job.
I know there are guys trying, but geez, Sc has done 10x as much in 6 months than this game has in however many years it is at this point.

[Vassago Rain]

While I hate walls of text, I must agree with this one.

MWO's extremely poor playerbase was bred to be this way, and PGI's never made any kind of effort to teach them basic things like the difference between a filled red dorito, versus an empty one. I guess you do in fact reap what you sow.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 08 January 2015 - 01:21 AM.

[NextGame]

what would help is some sort of drop commander role, who would basically be a spectator who can issue orders to mechs from above, and allow them to drop in some equipment or something to keep it from being completely dull and boring for when the puggies don't follow direction.

Have some factors around how the team is doing and how many orders are being followed effectively generate points that can be spent on dropping in turrets, or ammo resupplies, or other assets, even stuff like destructible barriers etc.

Part of the problem is that MWO currently doesn't lend itself well to giving direction, and another part is that a lot of players don't take direction well either (see the "but I don't wanna go on teamspeak" crowd for example).

Edited by NextGame, 08 January 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

NextGame, on 08 January 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

what would help is some sort of drop commander role, who would basically be a spectator who can issue orders to mechs from above, and allow them to drop in some equipment or something to keep it from being completely dull and boring for when the puggies don't follow direction.

Have some factors around how the team is doing and how many orders are being followed effectively generate points that can be spent on dropping in turrets, or ammo resupplies, or other assets, even stuff like destructible barriers etc.

Part of the problem is that MWO currently doesn't lend itself well to giving direction, and another part is that a lot of players don't take direction well either (see the "but I don't wanna go on teamspeak" crowd for example).

We were actually gonna have a dedicated commander role, as claimed in the original devlogs. About 1% of what was in those made it into the game.

MWO is a cash-in project, with zero long-term thought put into it. That's why CW doesn't fit into the overall structure of the game. That's why they couldn't use old maps for CW. So on, so forth.

I'm just gonna do my ggclose, then go back to eating these popcorn.

http://mwomercs.com/...10/2-dev-blog-0

http://mwomercs.com/...mmunity-warfare

http://mwomercs.com/...rmation-warfare

http://mwomercs.com/...-3-role-warfare

http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

http://mwomercs.com/...-warfare-part-i

http://mwomercs.com/...-blog-6-mechlab

This is the actual, as well as factual, tragedy.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 08 January 2015 - 01:47 AM.

[NGxT]

Vassago Rain, on 08 January 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

*snip*

Oh god, this reminded me of all the things that were promised and how hopeful I was. It's shocking to see just how far it is from the original vision and plan, as well as how complacently we accept this current version of the game...