149 replies to this topic

[Rushin Roulette]

Next time you drop against an infamous high profile unit (used to be Jade Falcon, but changed alleigance recently), take note at how many of your guys die to clean CT kills (clean meaning hardly any armour damage to the side torsos, legs, arms or head).

[Apocryph0n]

Rushin Roulette, on 08 January 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

Next time you drop against an infamous high profile unit (used to be Jade Falcon, but changed alleigance recently), take note at how many of your guys die to clean CT kills (clean meaning hardly any armour damage to the side torsos, legs, arms or head).

Problem is: They stream their games most of the time. And you can even see their Keyboard and mouse inputs on said stream. And I can assure you that they are just that good. Jeez, even Paul and other Devs are watching their stream, it would be a bit ******** to stream an Aimbot while a dev watches you playing.

[Ratpoison]

Apocryph0n, on 08 January 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

Problem is: They stream their games most of the time. And you can even see their Keyboard and mouse inputs on said stream. And I can assure you that they are just that good. Jeez, even Paul and other Devs are watching their stream, it would be a bit ******** to stream an Aimbot while a dev watches you playing.

I think that was his point. The paranoid people will see skill like that and sooner think of cheating than they would of actual skill, which is where the real problem here is.

[PhoenixFire55]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clark

Translates into english as:
Bads are always gonna cry about good players cheating instead of working on their own skill.

[Rushin Roulette]

PhoenixFire55, on 08 January 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clark

Translates into english as:
Bads are always gonna cry about good players cheating instead of working on their own skill.

Could also be interpreted as;
Any sufficiently skilled player is indistinguishable from hacks.

Although this also presents the logical conundrum which any game admin ever had to figure out... which player is skilled in his/her own right and which one is using a hack. For some players this is extremely difficult to tell the difference and I tend towards "when in doubt for the accused"... however I will make records of any games when the suspected hacker is on my team or against me.

Regarding the posted video earlier in the thread... it is pretty damn obvious when you known what signs to look for;

- crosshairs jumping erradically from one target to the other (bad aimbot or user switching priority between targets quickly)

- Crosshairs jumping directly to target without any corrective movements on the target (Could be skill, but even the most skilled player will make minor adjustments when over or undershooting the target... the more skilled players will deffinitely make adjustments to go for damaged sections in particular as soon as the paperdoll updates)

- Crosshair jumping to targets which are not visible and not targeted by anyone else (Wallhack combined with aimbot)

Just about all those shots are at least highly susupect. however the one at the end where he goes for the Atlas is far too obvious;
1. Crosshairs snaps to a wall and shoots the wall
2. Player notices bad positioning and moves forwards while shooting without moving the crosshairs in relation to movement
3. End of shot hits the Atlas who was outside of view earlier and too far away for any movement sounds (no excuse such as "I heard the footsteps in that direction")

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 08 January 2015 - 05:26 AM.

[Eglar]

lol I was not going to post seriously on this topic. In fact I've seen people snapping better than this guy. So here are some points I feel are just wrong:

Flyinghotpocket, on 06 January 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

• Faster than human reactions

No. this guy needed approx. 400ms before his crosshair went to the jumping mech (from since he was visible) that's bad reaction time at best.

Las51, on 07 January 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

His crosshair jumps to 3 different target in a splitsecond at that shot at 8 secs. One is even a friendly target. It's pretty obvious what's at work there.

The crosshair jumps to 3 spots but there are no 3 targets no matter how you look at it.

Rushin Roulette, on 08 January 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

- Crosshairs jumping directly to target without any corrective movements on the target

He's been doing them as the Quickdraw is jumping up.

For me personally, the most disturbing part is that he was displaying a pretty fast and smooth aiming (This kind of fast aiming can be observed everyday on protons stream for instance.) combined with otherwise sluggish movement and starts shooting first and aims afterwards. It makes people think why is this amateur playing that well. Well that's about it for me.

Edited by Eglar, 08 January 2015 - 05:59 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

PhoenixFire55, on 08 January 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clark

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a big gun - Maxim 24 of The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries

[Harbinger Prime]

For better clarification I modified the video so it is in slow motion sorry didn't take the time to give it a new sound track so the sound is slow motion also.

[Redacted]

Edited by John Wolf, 08 January 2015 - 09:14 AM.
Report in game activities to support@mwomercs.com

[C E Dwyer]

Lilammaa, on 01 January 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

iv started to spectate and see people who seem to be aim botting where they are running backwards and turning with perfect aim on the cockpit on mechs. meaning perfectly smooth aiming directly at the cockpit area.


aim crosshair was also snapping to mechs cockpits...


whats being done about this where can we report them to stop this idiocy.



this is the most important thing to end asap.


[Redacted]

you think there are aim botters go support report it, with proof let PGI deal with it..

This is just another waste of space

[Nightmare1]

I've seen some uncanny shots in this game, but nothing to make me think that aimbots were the source. Some pilots are just very good shots.

That being said, if there is a way to cheat, I do hope it is stopped quickly. This game is too awesome for folks to get away with that. For now though, I am more concerned about TK'ers, Hiders, and Suiciders.

[Lily from animove]

Apocryph0n, on 08 January 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

Problem is: They stream their games most of the time. And you can even see their Keyboard and mouse inputs on said stream. And I can assure you that they are just that good. Jeez, even Paul and other Devs are watching their stream, it would be a bit ******** to stream an Aimbot while a dev watches you playing.

? are you kidding streaming proofes nothing, you can still easily hack and stream without anyone recognising it until you make something dump. There was one vid on youtube which is gone about a guy that accidently switched the windows incorrectly making the wallhakc overlay appear for a short moment on the screen of the stream.

Bront, on 07 January 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

There are videos of people actually using them on Youtube. You can also find the products with a fairly easy google search. They exist, though you could argue about how effective they are.

effective? a lot, always staying on the same section is very efective with alsers.
dependign on how far such a bot isdeveloped, he van provide you with informations where soemone looks at, whcih emans you will never get surbrised when goign around a corner, you will always know where someone looks at and if it is save to go around the corner or pop out to shoot. Thiose metainformations are extremely valuable. The seismic sensor helps a lot already, yet it does not tell you where someone looks at.

I am quite sure going steam will bring in some hackers. Then PGI has to see how much the issues raises. cheats and cheaters work a lot these days to stay hidden. Even the high end CS pro's have cheaters.
We cna be happy that MWO is such an underdog game, it prevents us form the bad mainstream people and this kind of behavior, so far.

one of the recent CS news

and don't get fooled, cheating is a huge money makign industry today.

here some more interesting to read

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 January 2015 - 08:57 AM.

[Eglar]

Rushin Roulette, on 08 January 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

Next time you drop against an infamous high profile unit (used to be Jade Falcon, but changed alleigance recently), take note at how many of your guys die to clean CT kills (clean meaning hardly any armour damage to the side torsos, legs, arms or head).

aren't we salty. CT kills just means lack of torso twisting for most mech types. There are only a handful mechs where you would like to aim for st. Usually HoL goes for legs on close range though.

[Bellum Dominum]

Eglar, on 08 January 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

aren't we salty. CT kills just means lack of torso twisting for most mech types. There are only a handful mechs where you would like to aim for st. Usually HoL goes for legs on close range though.

lol yeah and that's not even taking into account the large amount of the player base that is either prior military service or current serving. As a vet myself it's hard to break from the training of aiming center mass (CT). After a couple of years of playing I'm better at aiming for specific mech locations (side torso, head, main weapon arm, etc) however I still automatically aim center mass and then have to adjust to the primary threat location. Clan mech targets are actually what is making me better at it more than anything with it requiring taking out both side torso's to kill them even with their xl engines.

[Dino Might]

Thorqemada, on 01 January 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

I am more concerned about People that have Super High Efficiency Pulse Lasers that do 3 times the expected damage...

If you're fighting a Wolverine 6K, it's because there are 3 of them...all in that right arm.

Wub Wub Wub

[Wesxander]

Here's the problem with all you people saying it is just skill. Some of us have served in the military and the kind top guns with those kind reflexes are super rare. You are talking about 1 in 6000 on average. I have seen a light pilot that goes speed 40 and takes only 5 percent of the total damage sent his way. If my spider (yes the un killable spider you guys say are broken) stands still or goes speed 40 with 3 to 4 enemy mech's targeting me for more than 2 seconds I am dead. I have to constantly move hit run, and then hide, then hit again when their attention is on something else. This player had nearly 350 points damage sent his way while he was moving speed 40kph of that maybe 35 points got through all spread out. I have seen players shoot through walls and obstacles as well. I will say this much all you people saying it's pure skill have PGI schedule another in person tournament let him bring his keyboard and mouse (scan them for 3rd party macros)and put him in person tourney and show all us saying there are cheats in game. I have seen IS player who few months ago had hacked his Large Pulse lasers to hit at clan range and double damage somehow. To PGI credit I didn't see him again after people said WTF. There is also a hack people have been bragging about that lets them adjust their video cards so their screen does not shake when hit with ac 20's etc. It also eliminates smoke and LOS issues.



All you guys saying he's pure skill get his ass in front of an in person tournament then eat your words. Perfect head shots on the move with an experienced target on the move = all skill yeah right. I need to sell you guys some prime real estate on Alpha Centarui if you buy that. There are to many of these guys that shoot and never miss ever out there to be statistically possible. Makes you wonder why some players shoot the ground hard before the game starts in earnest.

The majority of the players are honest but that does not mean everyone is. Sometimes it's buggy code other times blatant cheating is involved.

[cry-]

Eglar, on 08 January 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

The crosshair jumps to 3 spots but there are no 3 targets no matter how you look at it.

Na, there are 3 targets. The 2nd is the mech he shoots and hits at 8 seconds, the one that is barly visible, the one he hits for a split second after (!) he fired his lazors at a building (you see the crosshair going red). The other two are the jumping summoner and the firendly cent.

And yes, I've seen such viselike aiming from great players like Proton, but even he has small spots of imperfectness you can observe while watching him play.

[Bellum Dominum]

Wesxander, on 08 January 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Here's the problem with all you people saying it is just skill. Some of us have served in the military and the kind top guns with those kind reflexes are super rare. You are talking about 1 in 6000 on average. I have seen a light pilot that goes speed 40 and takes only 5 percent of the total damage sent his way. If my spider (yes the un killable spider you guys say are broken) stands still or goes speed 40 with 3 to 4 enemy mech's targeting me for more than 2 seconds I am dead. I have to constantly move hit run, and then hide, then hit again when their attention is on something else. This player had nearly 350 points damage sent his way while he was moving speed 40kph of that maybe 35 points got through all spread out. I have seen players shoot through walls and obstacles as well. I will say this much all you people saying it's pure skill have PGI schedule another in person tournament let him bring his keyboard and mouse (scan them for 3rd party macros)and put him in person tourney and show all us saying there are cheats in game. I have seen IS player who few months ago had hacked his Large Pulse lasers to hit at clan range and double damage somehow. To PGI credit I didn't see him again after people said WTF. There is also a hack people have been bragging about that lets them adjust their video cards so their screen does not shake when hit with ac 20's etc. It also eliminates smoke and LOS issues.



All you guys saying he's pure skill get his ass in front of an in person tournament then eat your words. Perfect head shots on the move with an experienced target on the move = all skill yeah right. I need to sell you guys some prime real estate on Alpha Centarui if you buy that. There are to many of these guys that shoot and never miss ever out there to be statistically possible. Makes you wonder why some players shoot the ground hard before the game starts in earnest.

The majority of the players are honest but that does not mean everyone is. Sometimes it's buggy code other times blatant cheating is involved.

hey Wex, my brother in arms, first off liking your own post is rather silly. secondly the adjustment to video isn't a hack in the sense that you are presenting it. it's simple adjustments to the video settings from inside the files instead of using the options / video button. anyone can do it. it's not even frowned upon by pgi because any one can do it and it doesn't give an unfair advantage. it is advantageous yes but again any one can do those same adjustments and there is even a thread or three about it in these forums if I remember right.

moving on: in the military such skill is far from 1 in 6000. in fact such skill is trained into us. how you don't remember that I really don't know but whatever.

what you are talking about with the lights is hit registration (mostly) and yes the raven has some. I've popped a raven with 3 hits of an AC20 coupled with SRM4 at 40 away into their side torso while the raven was shutdown due to over heat and watched it come back up and saunter off like it hadn't even been scratched. host state rewind has a lot to do with this. if you don't know what this is again you can find threads about it on these forums.

Your suggestion for an in person tournyment.... I say hell yes! let's do this! @PGI I'd be glad to help organize (volunteering even) this at conventions. I'd rather participate but I'd volunteer to help organize and withdraw from participating in the actual competition until it's a more regular and organized event. HINT HINT it'd be a huge promotion for the game and PGI as well at the various cons.

Edited by Death Drow, 08 January 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[Eglar]

Las51, on 08 January 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Na, there are 3 targets. The 2nd is the mech he shoots and hits at 8 seconds, the one that is barly visible, the one he hits for a split second after (!) he fired his lazors at a building (you see the crosshair going red). The other two are the jumping summoner and the firendly cent.

No unless you have some supermagic vision powers there is no barely visible opponent. Here is slow motion:
The first jump goes not on the centurion but in front of the centurion. The second jump goes against a wall. The third jump goes onto the Quickdraw.

[Chameleon257]

ShinVector, on 06 January 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

That was the old PGI with IGP in control of communications. I had at least one argument with a former mod that the excessive censorship and pretending like nothing bad happens in MWO, made no sense. Once in a while the public shpuld be made aware on what is acceptable and what is not.





There is the thing... Aimbotting in MWO is rare or at least seems to be.
What gives way cheats is that they are not 'natural'. Even the best pilots here with the fastest reaction time and accuracy will need to 'SEE' the target before they can fire upon him. That is a given.
The video even though there quality was bad, did show several instances of 'Lock-ons' happening.
It might have been less obvious had he been using ballistics but it was very obvious when it is being used with lasers.
Haven't seen this sort of thing since good old CS 1.6...



Now what do you mean by that ?
To my knowledge PGI had patched out the long time LOD bug with mechs and terrain a few patches back.

What you have to remember is some people have high end computers high res graphics that show mor detail have higher fps etc. what you see on the screen is your computer representation of their view but it's still your resolution your fps your textures etc. I haven't seen people suspiciously aiming I have a high end computer with high resolution and consistent 60fps because I'm vsync'd. Just because you don't see exactly what someone sees you might think its suspicious.

[cry-]

Eglar, on 08 January 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

No unless you have some supermagic vision powers there is no barely visible opponent. Here is slow motion:
The first jump goes not on the centurion but in front of the centurion. The second jump goes against a wall. The third jump goes onto the Quickdraw.

You might be right. The vids quality is too bad. I could barley make out the mech he's shooting at 8 secs and assumed it's what he's shooting at in this sequence.

Nevertheless, it's an unnatural aiming pattern. He can't hit a barns door at first and even shoots his teammate. Then, magically, he perfectly aligns his lasers on a surprise target like the Quickdraw.