62 replies to this topic

[Alan Davion]

Unfortunately it seems only the three "OST" mechs can be used at this time without any penalty in either their unseen or reseen forms according to the Sarna article posted back on page 1 of this thread.

Also at this point there really is about zero chance that anything from the Wasp up to the Marauder will be usable ever again, because of the "Robotech RPG Tactics" tabletop wargame that HG, Palladium and Ninja Division have started.

Yes, HG has actually gone and finally done something with the Macross/Robotech Mecha designs that they've been sitting on for the last decade or so.

The only thing anyone can really do is to buy the game and then use the pieces as stand-ins for the unseen versions of those mechs... Which I have to admit would be the absolute funniest way of saying "F--- You" to HG.

And I'm sure some people have actually done that.

[ilKhan_OrHan]

The Reseen looks better IMO. Shame PGI won't take a chance with them.

[Alan Davion]

ilKhan_OrHan, I can't say I agree with you 100% on the reseen mechs.

Going by the pictures from the old Project Phoenix TRO, the ones I do agree look better than the originals are the Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie, Ostscout, Phoenix Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine, Ostroc, Ostsol, Crusader, Thunderbolt, Archer, Battlemaster and the Locust IIC 4.

I'm personally indifferent about the Rifleman and Longbow.

But the ones I cannot stand the look of are the Locust, Shadow Hawk, Warhammer, Marauders and Phoenix Hawk IIC 4.

However, I believe the Archer and Longbow still bear too much of a resemblance to their original Macross derived appearances to risk using.

The Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Rifleman and Crusader I believe are far enough removed from their original versions that they could be used if the Project Phoenix artwork formed the basis for the in-game models and adapted from there.

The Ostscout, Ostroc and Ostsol are far and away from their original Macross derived versions that they could easily be used.

However the Warhammer and Marauders are the most hideous looking Battlemechs I've seen and I doubt anyone would want to pilot the Phoenix versions of those mechs.

[ilKhan_OrHan]

Alan Davion, on 07 February 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

ilKhan_OrHan, I can't say I agree with you 100% on the reseen mechs.

Opinions, everyone has one.

Alan Davion, on 07 February 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

However the Warhammer and Marauders are the most hideous looking Battlemechs I've seen and I doubt anyone would want to pilot the Phoenix versions of those mechs.

If by some miracle mechs like Marauder got in the game, Alex the art guy would not have a choice but to go with a more Reseen looking version. That version fits the look of the mechs he already designed, the Unseen version with it's spindly legs doesn't fit in this game in the slightest.

Edited by ilKhan_OrHan, 08 February 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[VinJade]

I think HG wouldn't dare go after anyone using the reseen because M$ owns the MW PC game line and attacking anyone using a M$ owned system regardless of what it is will see it as a threat against itself and we all know how heavy handed M$ can be.

as we all know HG maybe greedy & a liar but no stupid so poking a bear would not end well for them and who knows if they did go after M$ i could see M$ going after the unseen images as well just to spite them, lol

[JadeTimberwolf]

VinJade, on 08 February 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

I think HG wouldn't dare go after anyone using the reseen because M$ owns the MW PC game line and attacking anyone using a M$ owned system regardless of what it is will see it as a threat against itself and we all know how heavy handed M$ can be.

as we all know HG maybe greedy & a liar but no stupid so poking a bear would not end well for them and who knows if they did go after M$ i could see M$ going after the unseen images as well just to spite them, lol

I would love to see HG try that one and the aftermath of M$ biting back. I may actually buy Robotech stuff again (haven't done that since I was a little kid before the whole HG vs FASA bs)

[VinJade]

@JadeTimberwolf
oh I agree, I would love seeing them(HG) go after M$ and the outcome of the battle of the bullies, lol

[Twilight Fenrir]

VinJade, on 08 February 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

I think HG wouldn't dare go after anyone using the reseen because M$ owns the MW PC game line and attacking anyone using a M$ owned system regardless of what it is will see it as a threat against itself and we all know how heavy handed M$ can be.

as we all know HG maybe greedy & a liar but no stupid so poking a bear would not end well for them and who knows if they did go after M$ i could see M$ going after the unseen images as well just to spite them, lol

Bwuah? I seem to recall M$ Sold the PC game line to Smith & Tinker, waaaayyyy the hell back when, when we first got that sweet looking video for Mechwarrior: 3015, right before they got canned for using a Warhammer XD (Seriously... just.... not thinking)

That being said.... I would shell out my Founder's money again just to be able to pilot an Unseen Marauder Of course, that won't happen..

But this doesn't look bad at all:



Well, okay, the shoulder cannon is a little small... But otherwise, I'd pilot it!

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 05 March 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[VinJade]

@ TF
Thats what I thought as well but someone a few pages back said that M$ still owned the rights to MW games and just rented it to S&T.

[The Massive]

All I saw was MOAR MECHS!

Voted yes.

[Naduk]

PGi should ask their Microsoft overlords to destroy HG
if anyone can , M$ can

[VinJade]

problem I see going for them at the moment is they cannot lift a finger until HG goes after M$ as it would look bad for M$ for them attacking a small company known by many.

but oh boy the moment they did they are good as poor, lol

[Fyrwulf]

Everyone says they want the reseen back, but I wonder how many of you would be willing to chip in money for a kickstarter legal defense fund if it guarantees that the Phoenix mechs make an intro. I'll say right now that I'd throw in $100 and expect nothing from it but the ability to buy a Project Phoenix pack.

The Warhammer is doable, if you're willing to accept compromises; The 10CT and one other model has chicken walker legs and the IIC has that weird torso. Shimmering Sword's Marauders look nothing like the Glaug Officer Pods. The Phoenix Riflemans, if they're used as a basis, are sufficiently different that there's only a very superficial similarity. The 0C, 12C, and 12R models of the Longbow look pretty different from each other, never mind the Destroid Phalanx.

Also, the VMI "unseen" can be added at will, since Harmony Gold has never challenged them.

[Mordric]

is there any change PGI would make their own designs versions? and even if they can not or won't, I'm past them.. I love the oldies. but PGI is doing pretty good with tier take on Battletech. I'd hope they can make a few of their own designs, and tech as well.

[Fyrwulf]

I thought I'd point this out, since the Battlemaster is one of the Harmony Gold unseen.

Soltic HT-128 Bigfoot


Project Phoenix Battlemaster


MWO Battlemaster


So, the differences between the Bigfoot and PP Battlemaster are fairly superficial and Harmony Gold didn't go after Catalyst for it. PGI does a brilliant job with the Battlemaster and the only thing making the connection obvious are the shoulder pads. If PGI has made the decision that they don't want to do any more designs based upon the Project Phoenix mechs, keeping in mind the fairly radical departures they regularly make from TRO art, they need to come out and say so. The Harmony Gold excuse doesn't hold water anymore.

[WintermuteOmega]

Everyone's a lawyer....

Still, i can't get my head around, why HG isn't going to earn some extra cash by letting PGI or other companies "license" the use of their Designs.
Sure, it will have something to do with property rights, license-practice and so on, since copyright-law must be hell to navigate through
Something like "we give you 20% of every package sold" and sell them for more, since these mechs are so iconic (and mostly so beautiful) that many people would buy them, even if they would cost more. I would even understand if the mechs would never go for C-Bills only, since HG would not make a buck out of it, but i know many would shout P2W right away. Or just make players pay the license fee per mech. But since licenses won't be set "forever" and conditions might change an the licenses could be revoked, the mechs could then just be scratched again out of MWO, leaving us empty husks, with nothig to live for anymore (maybe a bit dramatic, but who knows?!).

[Twilight Fenrir]

Mektek managed to release the Marauder, Rifleman, etc.... How did they get away with it? o.o

Is it just a matter of they were non-profit? Could we get the Marauder if MWO just gave everyone who had an account one? X3

[Pax Bellum]

"Mektek managed to release the Marauder, Rifleman, etc.... How did they get away with it? o.o

Stone Rhino.......0.o

[Tesunie]

Pax Bellum, on 03 May 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

"Mektek managed to release the Marauder, Rifleman, etc.... How did they get away with it? o.o

Stone Rhino.......0.o

Wasn't that for MW2? Or are you talking about the MW4 stuff?

They may have gotten away with it because they did it in some kind of "non-profit" manner? Not sure. Depending upon which you are talking about, they also didn't release it "officially", but as personal player made add-ons if I'm correct. (My information on this is a little hazy.)

[Burktross]

SpiralFace, on 14 January 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

Nope.

As long as you name them Warhammer, Marauder, Crusader, etc. HG is going to wheel out in court that once upon a time, they did represent designs that derived from the Macross franchise that they are willing to argue they own. (Or at least have more legal right to them then anyone else.)

It doesn't matter how much different they look. The fact that those names once upon a time represented Macross designs will basically allow them to argue that they are "derivitave work" of the original macross properties. (As Marauders / warhamers, etc, wouldn't exist in the state they are today without the previous work that was used directly from the macross series.)

Again, you can probably make enough visual distinctions from them to move them away from derivative work. But its a point that would have to be taken up in court and the legal battle would be costly given that HG is known for defending stuff that doesn't belong to them tooth and nail.

The only way those mechs are going to end up in game is if there is NOTHING there to tie them to the original mechs that referenced the work.

That means the mechs cannot:

- Carry the same look
- Carry the same names (As it can be argued that the names are still tied to the original macross work,)

So your essentially left with a completely different mech with identical hard points, but no visual or named similarities.

Sadly, that's not what most people want or will ever accept.

Why not...
The Warsledge
Barbarian
and the
Hell I don't know
Jihadist?