36 replies to this topic

[Zookeeper Dan]

I just started playing and one thing has become clear, I'm awful at running and gunning.  10 games and I'm usually under 30 damage (although my win-loss is 8-2, go figure).  Part of it may be that none of the trial mechs suit my style of play.  
I've been into battletech since the 90's and I hope I'm just victim to MWO's steep learning curve.  I'm counting on my skills improving quicker concentrating on one mech that I like piloting!
I'd like a mech that can provide range support, but then can move in to help clean up.  I like medium to heavy mechs with moderate speed and jump jets.
Looking at my options, a Trebuchet seems to be right up my alley.  Would this make a good first mech?  In particular the TBT-7M is on sale right now and I just about have enough C-Bills.
Should I go for it or are there any other mechs I should consider?
Thanks!

[TripleEhBeef]

Consider the Griffins and Kintaros. They can also play the LRM medium role very well.

The Treb 7M isn't a bad choice since it comes with the XL250 engine. That engine can be used pretty well across a good number of medium mechs, including other Trebuchets, which is important if you want to Elite the chassis.

The Trebs are pretty good at providing support with their LRMs while packing enough backup medium lasers to help out in close range fights. The 7M is the most versatile of the bunch given it's launcher hardpoints and jump jets.

I can recommend it on the grounds that you're getting a hell of a deal on that XL250. NEVER sell any XL engine and expensive standards.

[Tarogato]

First off, thanks for visiting the forums!

I feel obligated to respond here because the Trebuchet 7M was the first mech I ever bought, and I hated it so much that I sold it only a day or so later. Rather discouraging since I did a healthy amount of research before I came to the conclusion to buy a Trebuchet, and because it sank my Cadet Bonus right down the drain and I basically had to start over with an extra handicap.

In the end, I actually bought the same model of the trial mech that I had the most experience in, which at the time was a Cicada 2A. Ever since then I found my niche in light mechs... but enough about me, I'll talk more about the mech.

The quirks for the TBT-7M favour a loadout with dual LRM15s, so... it's a missle boat. If you've played the trial Catapault or Stalker, that gives you a very basic idea of how the TBT will play, the only difference being that the TBT moves faster, is more delicate, and doesn't have enough tonnage to bring both a healthy supply of LRM ammo and defend itself with backup weapons. (it would seem I disagree with the above poster here, but he probably has more experience with the mech than I do) That said, it does its niche role very well. It's a very effective LRM boat that only weighs 50 tons (medium), so it doesn't take up a heavy slot.

Now you could put something other than LRMs in it, but in my opinion it would be an utter waste because A: it has great quirks for LRM15, and B: whatever other loadout you come up with, there's other medium mechs that do it substantially better.

I've since rebought the TBT-7M and decided to master the chassis, so I had to buy two other variants. I decided to buy the 7K, because I wanted to try putting an AC/5 and two PPCs on it. The funny thing is, I was able to put more armour on it than the 5-ton-heavier Shadowhawk, yet the only feeling I got from it is that it was made of glass and shattered very easily. I did okay with it, despite. And I also bought the TBT-3C, and that was for one reason: it has a high engine cap and can run 134kph... it's sort of a troll build, but I had a lot of fun with it and it didn't actually perform as poorly as I expected.

Now... all and all, I wouldn't recommend the TBT chassis for a new player. Getting three variants with he proper engines and loadouts is going to be tricky. If you want to boat SRMs, I'd recommend the Griffin or Wolverine. If you want LRMs, I'd recommend something that isn't a medium weight mech (sry Kintaro, I know you're great, too). If you want to run ballistics or energy, you could go Hunchback, Wolverine, Shadowhawk, ... lots of choices really. Keeping in mind that these are all my personal recommendations and hopefully other players will chime in with their ideas as well to help inform your decision. =]

Edited by Tarogato, 30 January 2015 - 06:11 PM.

[DivideOverflow]

I picked up the Hunchback 4J, and I love it for light LRM duty (helps get assists), and then you can still hold a bunch of medium lasers for up close and personal fights. It is pretty cheap too! No jumpjets, though. I'm getting better at the close encounters with the 4J and the 4P.

I haven't tried the Trebuchet yet.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Trebs are excellent long range fire support mechs.

7M for LRM:s
7K for AC5+ 2 PPC sniping (very effective) or AC20 + 2 ML brawling (lacks quirks,but still works)
5J for laserboating with 2 LL 3 ML

They are bit squishy for brawling,and most of their main weapons tend to be in the hands,that are good shields and regularly get blown off if you torso twist a lot. Treb 7K is a good exception tho.Loup de Guerre is total POS and i do not recommend buying it.

[LT. HARDCASE]

When getting into mediums, it's best to buy one that comes with an XL, and further I always recommend one that comes with an XL275. You'll find them in the Griffin-3M (on sale right now!), Shadowhawk-5M, and Wolverine-7K.

I'd also take any of these mechs over a Trebuchet. When you get past the LRM quirks, the Trebs just aren't good, especially not for a new player. The Griffin, Shawk, and Wolvie give you options to do more than throw LRMs, which are options you'll need to learn to get good at MWO.

Honestly Wolverines are pretty strong with their current quirks, but who knows whether PGI will nerf them eventually.

Edited by Kevjack, 30 January 2015 - 06:53 PM.

[TripleEhBeef]

Tarogato, on 30 January 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

First off, thanks for visiting the forums!

I feel obligated to respond here because the Trebuchet 7M was the first mech I ever bought, and I hated it so much that I sold it only a day or so later. Rather discouraging since I did a healthy amount of research before I came to the conclusion to buy a Trebuchet, and because it sank my Cadet Bonus right down the drain and I basically had to start over with an extra handicap.

In the end, I actually bought the same model of the trial mech that I had the most experience in, which at the time was a Cicada 2A. Ever since then I found my niche in light mechs... but enough about me, I'll talk more about the mech.

The quirks for the TBT-7M favour a loadout with dual LRM15s, so... it's a missle boat. If you've played the trial Catapault or Stalker, that gives you a very basic idea of how the TBT will play, the only difference being that the TBT moves faster, is more delicate, and doesn't have enough tonnage to bring both a healthy supply of LRM ammo and defend itself with backup weapons. (it would seem I disagree with the above poster here, but he probably has more experience with the mech than I do) That said, it does its niche role very well. It's a very effective LRM boat that only weighs 50 tons (medium), so it doesn't take up a heavy slot.

I probably should have mentioned that in my post. You aren't going to be able to take a lot of ammo with the Trebs unless you make sacrifices elsewhere, such as engine size, launcher size, or cooling.

But it's not really a "sit back and bombard" type of mech. Others do that better. It's more of a "just behind the lines" mech where the risk of wasting volleys to lock losses is lower. You slip out to the side, pour missiles onto a target, mix in some ML fire, then slip back around into cover.

I agree the Trebs aren't the best mech to walk into as a new player. The Griffin is a better generalist and more forgiving while packing the tube count to rain down lots of missiles. If the OP really wants to LRM, he should go for the Griffin 3M.

[TripleEhBeef]

Cookiemonter669, on 30 January 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

5J for laserboating with 2 LL 3 ML

I like a 1 LPL, 4ML on that myself.

[PACoFist]

A Trebuchet was the second mech I bought when I started playing. And I always liked them Trebs, even though it was never considered a top mech. But I don´t play them much anymore since the quirks were introduced to MWO.

The quirks they added to Trebuchets are pretty mediocre. While they gave some other mechs quirks, that turned a junk pile into a killer machine.
The Trashbuckets are not bad, but there are simply better alternatives at the moment.

The only exception is the TBT-5J, which is a great mech. It is a fast, agile, jumping Laserboat. One of my absolute favourite mechs.

If you want an LRM-mech I would recommend buying a Hunchback. The HBK-4J is designed for using LRMs. And Hunchbacks are good starter mechs.

[Krivvan]

Running LRM boats (including that Treb) as a new player has you running the risk of falling into the hole that is only being able to use LRMs. There is a way to do LRM boats properly, that is being up in the fight and providing support while remaining with the group, but you reach a cap with them where LRMs simply aren't effective anymore and you aren't able to run any other kind of build well. It's often better to suffer through direct fire weapons as a new player.

[That Dawg]

TripleEhBeef, on 30 January 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Consider Kintaros.

+1

grind them out, its painful grinding but the rewards are a different mech.
the Kintaro is a very forgiving starting mech. LRM5's will gather needed points/xp safely from a distance.
The trick: keep up with the pack, but back far enough to keep from taking too much enemy fire. But not so far back to become prey for lights.

[dragnier1]

I would recommend either centurions or griffins based on the Steiner sale. They would likely be easier to play than trebuchets.
The griffins can do most of what trebuchets could do and you can also practice using arms to protect the torso (torso twisting)

Edited by dragnier1, 30 January 2015 - 08:56 PM.

[Metafox]

Danth Reduviid, on 30 January 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

I just started playing and one thing has become clear, I'm awful at running and gunning. 10 games and I'm usually under 30 damage (although my win-loss is 8-2, go figure). Part of it may be that none of the trial mechs suit my style of play.
I've been into battletech since the 90's and I hope I'm just victim to MWO's steep learning curve. I'm counting on my skills improving quicker concentrating on one mech that I like piloting!

In MWO, your skills won't do you any good if you aren't good at positioning and timing. A good player will pop out from the right place at the right moment. A bad player will step out into the wrong place at the wrong time. Of course, a lot of it is also a matter of luck. If you engage too early then your team won't be there and you'll be hopelessly outnumbered. If you engage too late, your team will either take all the kills or they'll be dead. Try to find a good balance between playing aggressively and conservatively.

As for your choice of mech, the hunchback is probably a better medium mech than the trebuchet. The hunchback has a good laserboat, a good ballistic option, and a good missile variant so you'll get a lot of variety out of one mech.

The trebuchet has some good LRM variants, but LRMs work better in heavier mechs. Also, newer players tend to misuse LRMs by standing in the far back, launching volleys into walls, and complaining about how they can't get a lock. If you're boating LRMs, you need to stand a little behind the front line and get your own locks.

[Tarogato]

dragnier1, on 30 January 2015 - 08:27 PM, said:

The griffins can do most of what trebuchets could do and the centurions are good for learning how to use the arms to protect the torso.

Actually, the Griffins aren't bad for shield arming, either. You're running an XL, so it's kinda Hardmode, but that dummy left arm does come in handy - it's how I learned shielding. That and Cicadas, which have really tiny shields.

That Dawg, on 30 January 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

Kintaro is a very forgiving starting mech. LRM5's will gather needed points/xp safely from a distance.

LRM5 Kintaro's are wicked. I'm one of those people that never complains about LRMs... but when I see a Kintaro, that sucker needs to die. Almost as irritating as Huginns and Grid Irons. Though, I would take to heart what Krivvan said above about choosing LRMs as a first chassis. The Kintaro has variants that do SRMs and lasers, but it falls victim to the fact that there are other mediums that do those things better, and having your missle arms getting blown off can be irritating as a new player.

PACoFist, on 30 January 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

The only exception is the TBT-5J, which is a great mech. It is a fast, agile, jumping Laserboat. One of my absolute favourite mechs.

You know, you're almost making me regret getting the 3C instead... I really wish that thing had jets...

TripleEhBeef, on 30 January 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

I like a 1 LPL, 4ML on that myself.

It is my firm belief that everything needs a wub on it somewhere.

[Aceramic]

As somebody who has two mastered Treebuckets (7K and 3C, willing to share my trolltastic builds if anybody wants them), I would not recommend them to a new player. If you're into mediums, I'd look into the Shadow Hawk, possibly Cicada, depending on your playstyle (Cicadas work better if you pretend they're an overweight light). You might also enjoy Thunderbolts (9SE is JJ capable, with a top speed of 86 KPH).


(Edit to add: Not saying Trebs are a bad 'mech, they just... Aren't as good as other options, or as friendly to new people. >.>)

Edited by Aceramic, 30 January 2015 - 09:48 PM.

[Silversynch]

My 2 cents:

I had the bright idea of taking the Trebuchet for my first 'mech.

Most expensive mistake ever.

[HlynkaCG]

I generally recommend the Hunchback or Centurion as a first mech, but the Trebuchets are not bad. Just keep in mind that you will be trading a fair bit of durability for additional speed and/or firepower compared to the Cent or Hunchie. Trebs are the quintessential "Squishy Wizard" of the IS medium bracket. If that fits your play style, great! Otherwise i'd recommend against them.

55 tonners like the Shadowhawk, Griffon or Kintaro are all excellent mechs but can be rather expensive to outfit for a new player who is just starting out. I would not recommend them as a first mech unless you know that you like IS mediums and will be piloting them a lot.

ETA:
If you do decide to pick up the Trebs, I reccomend the 3C, 7M or 7K.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 30 January 2015 - 11:40 PM.

[Spheroid]

No. I do not recommend the Treb as a first mech. Get the Hunchback-4J as it is far tougher and insanely cheap. It also has enough energy hardpoints for a head TAG which more or less mandatory in the current ECM environment.

[That Dawg]

take a look at the quirks too, there are MANY inner sphere mechs that got very generous quirks- or special attributes i.e. they shoot faster (some projectile speed, some reload faster) some have 'less' heat when fired, a plus. More armor, better twist etc.
take that into consideration too

[Macksheen]

I'd suggest HBK as well for a first chassis.

- There are models that are good with LRMs, SRMs, energy, ballistics, etc.
- They all perform VERY well with their quirked advantages
- They can teach asymmetric play, which is important (torso twist to shield, peek to shoot, etc.)

The 4J, 4G and 4P are an awesome set to start with.

My only reservation is that as a new player you're likely to do not so well in ANYTHING, and sadly you're going to not enjoy that in whatever mech you're in. You absolutely ARE in a steep learning curve. It gets better with chair-time, so don't sweat that. The nice thing is once you've moved on from the HBKs you can come back to them and try them out once you're further up the curve and they can be rewarding and satisfying then as well.