47 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

I play MWO since december.
I have long struggled, but now I simply must write this, as the misuse of this word drives me crazy.

The word "meta" does NOT mean what so many of you MWO players use it for.

"Meta gaming" means to get an advantage inside a game by using an OUTSIDE means.
(Meta means above/beyond/outside, btw. like meta physics or meta studies)

What is meta gaming?

A good example for me is:

In Eve-Online (a spaceship game) people could log out / disconnect with their ship being in in mid-space.
The ship would float there for a while, then warp away and magically disappear, untrackable for enemies.
If they log in, the ship magically reappears and warps back to the place where the player "left" it.

This allows to lay unpredictable and unpreventable traps:
A single ship would idle at a stargate while all his buddies log out and wait in IRC/TS.
A squad of enemy players would roam the area, see the solitary ship and decide to take the easy kill.
The single pilot notifies his buddies outside the game upon being attacked, all buddies log in simultaneously and easily kill the squad.

The meta gaming is to exploiting the "magical" special logout feature while coordinating OUTSIDE the game to gain an ingame tactical advantage.



An example for MWO might be if you can induce lag at will to gain a protection advantage for your mech due to outside technical reasons, not by ingame game-mechanical reasons.
THAT is meta gaming.


Meta gaming is unfair, OP, imba, whatever. Yes.

BUT. That does NOT mean that everything that is (perceived) unfair or OP or imba or whatnot is described correctly with "meta".

An (allgedly) OP build is NOT a "Meta build", it's just OP.

Whoever falls for such a fallacy has a serious problem with logical thinking.
And using that in texts read by others drives those with intact logical thinking INSANE.

If the internet era really causes such dramatic intellectual decay, I fear for humanity. No joke.

It's like saying "I'm water" every time I'm cold, just because water is cold as well.
Or like saing "I have 12" every time I have won something, just because in MWO you win with 12 kills.
Maybe this clears it up a bit how painful it is to read that utter error over and over again.
It drives you crazy if you know about the correct meaning of the term.

So I beg you: stop writing "meta" if you mean unfair or too good. Say "OP" or "imba", that actually means what it should.

Thank you for booking this story!
("Thank you for reading this text" with meta logic)




tl;dr: "meta" means above/beyond/outside, not unfair. STOP USING IT THAT WAY, it causes brain pain simply by reading it.




PS:
Nice google result:
WHY HAVE PEOPLE SUDDENLY STARTED USING "META" WHEN WHAT THEY MEAN IS GAMEPLAY?
*sigh*

Edited by Paigan, 13 February 2015 - 06:02 AM.

[mike29tw]

Words and their meaning change over time all the time.

With the advent of Internet, it will probably just change faster than we've perceived before. There were instances where incorrect use of a certain word caught on over time and is now regarded as different than they were.

There's nothing wrong with it and certainly no need to make a big fuss about it.

[Mechteric]

Don't care, the word meta is stupid and I'd like to see it stricken from use. Just after we ban the word "brah".

[mogs01gt]

Paigan, on 13 February 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

I play MWO since december.
I have long struggled, but now I simply must write this, as the misuse of this word drives me crazy.
The word "meta" does NOT mean what so many of you MWO players use it for.
"Meta gaming" means to get an advantage inside a game by using an OUTSIDE means.
(Meta means above/beyond/outside, btw. like meta physics or meta studies)
What is meta gaming?
A good example for me is:
In Eve-Online (a spaceship game) people could log out / disconnect with their ship being in in mid-space.
The ship would float there for a while, then warp away and magically disappear, untrackable for enemies.
If they log in, the ship magically reappears and warps back to the place where the player "left" it.
This allows to lay unpredictable and unpreventable traps:
A single ship would idle at a stargate while all his buddies log out and wait in IRC/TS.
A squad of enemy players would roam the area, see the solitary ship and decide to take the easy kill.
The single pilot notifies his buddies outside the game upon being attacked, all buddies log in simultaneously and easily kill the squad.
The meta gaming is to exploiting the "magical" special logout feature while coordinating OUTSIDE the game to gain an ingame tactical advantage.
An example for MWO might be if you can induce lag at will to gain a protection advantage for your mech due to outside technical reasons, not by ingame game-mechanical reasons.
THAT is meta gaming.
Meta gaming is unfair, OP, imba, whatever. Yes.
BUT. That does NOT mean that everything that is (perceived) unfair or OP or imba or whatnot is described correctly with "meta".
An (allgedly) OP build is NOT a "Meta build", it's just OP.
Whoever falls for such a fallacy has a serious problem with logical thinking.
And using that in texts read by others drives those with intact logical thinking INSANE.
If the internet era really causes such dramatic intellectual decay, I fear for humanity. No joke.
It's like saying "I'm water" every time I'm cold, just because water is cold as well.
Or like saing "I have 12" every time I have won something, just because in MWO you win with 12 kills.
Maybe this clears it up a bit how painful it is to read that utter error over and over again.
It drives you crazy if you know about the correct meaning of the term.
So I beg you: stop writing "meta" if you mean unfair or too good. Say "OP" or "imba", that actually means what it should.
Thank you for booking this story!
("Thank you for reading this text" with meta logic)
tl;dr: "meta" means above/beyond/outside, not unfair. STOP USING IT THAT WAY, it causes brain pain simply by reading it.
PS:
Nice google result:
WHY HAVE PEOPLE SUDDENLY STARTED USING "META" WHEN WHAT THEY MEAN IS GAMEPLAY?
*sigh*

No, you are wrong. You are going off the Greek definition of the word which means nothing in the gaming world.

Meta is a term in gaming that simply means you are using the most current and efficient use of in-game content. Meaning either a certain item, weapon or character that is now more powerful than others. The Meta is using that in-game content to your advantage.


quick reference link.
http://www.urbandict...e.php?term=meta

You are referring to this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta

Edited by mogs01gt, 13 February 2015 - 07:02 AM.

[Lily from animove]

you may wanna read something about metagaming


to enlighten yourself about languanges evolves and how meta gaming is what it is today.
I have a few billions of flip-flops at home yet I do not mean shoes.

or use the urban wictionary its a nice source of how many words are used and their meaning

http://de.urbandicti...term=metagaming

btw, meta game is not op or unfair at all, it is only op or unfair, if there is a lack of balance in a game, so that the metagame starts to consist of only those OP and unfair combinations. A truly balanced game, will not really have a meta, because everything is more or less equally usefull. But some maps, have very much their own metagame, because ther eis that one tactic that will gove you that one big advantage, and so it is the metatactic thats going to happen.

same goes for the word "meta" as from its origing is very accurately describing this, because its sense is what the metagem represents. The game in the game, between the rules of the game where everything focuses towards something, mostly the sense of winning in games.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 February 2015 - 07:09 AM.

[RedDragon]

Paigan, on 13 February 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

If the internet era really causes such dramatic intellectual decay, I fear for humanity. No joke.

It's kinda ironic that you throw out sentences like this one while you obviously aren't even able to do the most basic research yourself.
A quick glance at the wikipedia article shows:

Quote

Another game-related use of Metagaming refers to operating on knowledge of the current strategic trends within a game.

So while the original meaning of the word may be another, language tends to adapt, especially in times of internet and globalization. Adapting words and language as a whole is quite common in sub-communities.
So although I myself don't like all that gamer talk - talking down from such a high horse as you are doing, one would expect that you at least try to understand how language works before accusing others of making mistakes.

[FupDup]

Actually, in a way it's not entirely inaccurate because a huge amount of this game's information about mechanics is located externally (outside of the game itself) instead of internally....

Either way, it's just a convenient way of saying "The best strategies/builds." Having to type out "the best strategies/builds" every single time would get repetitive real fast, so we just use "meta" instead. It makes life easier. If you want to remove that from the vocabulary, you'd better give us an alternative word to use instead...

[Tombstoner]

Paigan, on 13 February 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

PS:
Nice google result:
WHY HAVE PEOPLE SUDDENLY STARTED USING "META" WHEN WHAT THEY MEAN IS GAMEPLAY?
*sigh*

Because people log off and google MWO builds. Because people use outside resources to crunch numbers and find the optimum.

Those two reasons affect game play thus meta is correctly used.

[BUDFORCE]

I agree with him actually.

[Lily from animove]

Tombstoner, on 13 February 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

Because people log off and google MWO builds. Because people use outside resources to crunch numbers and find the optimum.

Those two reasons affect game play thus meta is correctly used.

and lets not forget how outside coordination of using Voip and other stuff influences this as well.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 February 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[Soy]

This topic still gets posted I see.

[Siegegun]

OP- They are not using the word incorrectly. Try looking up "meta gaming" instead of just a borrowed root word. According to multiple "definitions" of the word MWO can and does have a "meta game", instead of taking the stock load out on mechs I buy, I change them completely and disregard the entire stock build, I do this because I know that a different set of weapon systems will be superior, I buy certain mechs with different hard points and hard point locations because I know they will be better. I do this from outside the game itself. There is an achievement and leveling system which is a meta system.

I have and still do play alot of pen and paper RPG games. I have and still do play a lot of table top miniature war games. Meta gaming is strong there. And just like when I build a fighter in D and D, or an army in a TT game, where I can and do optimize my characters and armies, from OUTSIDE the game to make my characters and armies the strongest I possibly can, I and others do the same thing in MWO.

I do find it odd you felt a pressing need to try and "correct" this "community" and the interweb at large.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Paigan, on 13 February 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

I play MWO since december.
I have long struggled, but now I simply must write this, as the misuse of this word drives me crazy.

The word "meta" does NOT mean what so many of you MWO players use it for.

"Meta gaming" means to get an advantage inside a game by using an OUTSIDE means.
(Meta means above/beyond/outside, btw. like meta physics or meta studies)

What is meta gaming?

A good example for me is:

In Eve-Online (a spaceship game) people could log out / disconnect with their ship being in in mid-space.
The ship would float there for a while, then warp away and magically disappear, untrackable for enemies.
If they log in, the ship magically reappears and warps back to the place where the player "left" it.

This allows to lay unpredictable and unpreventable traps:
A single ship would idle at a stargate while all his buddies log out and wait in IRC/TS.
A squad of enemy players would roam the area, see the solitary ship and decide to take the easy kill.
The single pilot notifies his buddies outside the game upon being attacked, all buddies log in simultaneously and easily kill the squad.

The meta gaming is to exploiting the "magical" special logout feature while coordinating OUTSIDE the game to gain an ingame tactical advantage.



An example for MWO might be if you can induce lag at will to gain a protection advantage for your mech due to outside technical reasons, not by ingame game-mechanical reasons.
THAT is meta gaming.


Meta gaming is unfair, OP, imba, whatever. Yes.

BUT. That does NOT mean that everything that is (perceived) unfair or OP or imba or whatnot is described correctly with "meta".

An (allgedly) OP build is NOT a "Meta build", it's just OP.

Whoever falls for such a fallacy has a serious problem with logical thinking.
And using that in texts read by others drives those with intact logical thinking INSANE.

If the internet era really causes such dramatic intellectual decay, I fear for humanity. No joke.

It's like saying "I'm water" every time I'm cold, just because water is cold as well.
Or like saing "I have 12" every time I have won something, just because in MWO you win with 12 kills.
Maybe this clears it up a bit how painful it is to read that utter error over and over again.
It drives you crazy if you know about the correct meaning of the term.

So I beg you: stop writing "meta" if you mean unfair or too good. Say "OP" or "imba", that actually means what it should.

Thank you for booking this story!
("Thank you for reading this text" with meta logic)




tl;dr: "meta" means above/beyond/outside, not unfair. STOP USING IT THAT WAY, it causes brain pain simply by reading it.




PS:
Nice google result:
WHY HAVE PEOPLE SUDDENLY STARTED USING "META" WHEN WHAT THEY MEAN IS GAMEPLAY?
*sigh*

you're thinking "Metagaming" as in the context of something like Dungeons and Dragons, also known as "God Modding" and various other things.

the "Meta" referred to in MWO lingo has been used this way since atleast Mechwarrior 3 so far as I remember. And in various cardgame circles and the like [where I hear it more often]

For Instance, in Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic the Gathering the "Meta" is the top tier decks of the time. Or the best decks to run. These are often dictated by online lists.

In mechwarrior the "meta" is whatever the top tier players are using.

Get it now? Meta in this context, means top tier, or most popular tactics. This is not something that's indicative of MWO, but of gaming culture as a whole.

[Siegegun]

@flash frame- it is the same thing as in a pen and paper rpg. The definitions are not different. What goes on to create a character in a pen and paper rpg, or a TT mini war game is the same as in MWO (and many many other video games).

Edited by Siegegun, 13 February 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Coolant]

agree with OP 100%. The use of the word "meta" is rampant on the forums, but is used with a completely wrong definition.

I've posted on it before as well.

[ollo]

Tombstoner, on 13 February 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

Because people log off and google MWO builds. Because people use outside resources to crunch numbers and find the optimum.

Those two reasons affect game play thus meta is correctly used.

Seeing the lack of information in-game (e.g. ghost heat penalty), basically every mech is meta as long as the owner did consult outside sources like smurfy or the forums.

[Statius]

I will tell you about the word "meta." It means after in Greek. Aristotle's Metaphysics was written (or compiled) after the Physics. But given the topic matter, it seems to be above the topic of the Physics, namely, the first principles by which the world in understood. Hence we have metaphysics as a philosophical topic.

What I am saying is that the word "Meta" in all the contexts menionted above is likewise trying to play of this sense of the "above", outside the regular field of play. But even in this sense it is a bastardization.

[LordSkippy]

Lectures people on the proper usage of a word.

Paigan, on 13 February 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

I play MWO since december.

First sentence is a grammatical nightmare.

7/10

[Kodyn]

"PLEASE STOP USING THE WORD "META" WRONGLY"

Please learn proper English before trying to teach everyone...proper English....

Thread fail....

[Lily from animove]

Statius, on 13 February 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

I will tell you about the word "meta." It means after in Greek. Aristotle's Metaphysics was written (or compiled) after the Physics. But given the topic matter, it seems to be above the topic of the Physics, namely, the first principles by which the world in understood. Hence we have metaphysics as a philosophical topic.

What I am saying is that the word "Meta" in all the contexts menionted above is likewise trying to play of this sense of the "above", outside the regular field of play. But even in this sense it is a bastardization.

http://dictionary.re...om/browse/meta-

this is it, and now with beign a suffix, it't the game beyonfd the game. Because the game beyond what it was intednded to be fore, palying by a more asbtract ruleset of the goal towards winning. and the goal towards it goes. Scroll down to the original meaning of the word meta. anmd so yes metagame is in the same meaning even as the original words meaning if you however know what the goal behind the metagame is.