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[Deathlike]

Back when the original Clan pack was introduced (Clan Wave 1), the Warhawk (also known as the Masakari - all IS names for Clan mechs are just better... anyways) was a popular mech in the MW series... being a staple PPC mech that was usually associated in the company of the Inner Sphere's Awesome (which ironically is not awesome). In the same vein, it isn't entirely ironic that this mech suffers a lot of the same attributes (although in different ways) that make the Awesome bad... and being mistaken for a Dire Wolf doesn't help.

I had heard good things about the Warhawk... at least for support of the Wubhawk (Clan LPL boat)... but outside of its seemingly primary use of being an LRM boat... I hoped to buck the trend. I learned quite a few things along the way and while I have a really skewed view of Clan Assaults (just liking the Gargoyle by itself, despite all terrible odds), it makes me wonder what it could have been had parts of the omnimech construction system been revamped for an online game...


You know the drill by now right? 3 Sections... because "3".

1) Omnipods - Why the left torso is a drag...
2) Field Report - If it kinda looks like a Daishi, but has the hardpoints of a Misery... is it still a Masakari?
3) Future - The Warhawk-C is a glimmer of hope...


1) Omnipods - Some things hang a little to the right... right?

Part of the omnimech construction rules suck... and this is what makes the Left Torso a drag. While fortunately it is maxed out on DHS, you are forced to consume at least 4 DHS in that section (DHS are on the legs, but at least have a reason to exist) and effectively limit what you can do. Additionally, the hardpoints on some of the omnipods favor the right side over the other... forcing you to stock up on stuff on the right torso as a consequence. While it will become more apparent as I explain this... the most important bit of info starts from the Center Torso...


Center Torso
WHK-Prime - +10 (degrees) Torso Twist Yaw (range)
WHK-A - +10 (degrees) Torso Twist Yaw (range)
WHK-B - 1M
WHK-C - 1E

Until the release of the Warhawk-C, there wasn't much of a rush or a reason to have a CT hardpoint since it messed with the torso twist range. The C variant has the most practical use... but if you're going to a dedicated missile boat, the B is your best bet.


Right Torso
WHK-Prime - 1AMS, +5 (degrees) Torso Twist Yaw
WHK-A - 1M, +10% missile cooldown reduction
WHK-B - 2M
WHK-C - +10 (degrees) Torso Twist Yaw

Unless you need AMS, the C version is preferable to increase torso twist range. If you're going to be a full missile boat... it's an interesting choice. Going with the B's omnipod, you get more hardpoints to play with but serve a risk of ammo locations (it's hard to fit ammo where you need it most) but the A's omnipod is a unique opportunity... you trade a missile hardpoint for frequency of spam... which goes well with the Warhawk-B's missile hardpoint CT.


Left Arm
WHK-Prime - 2E, 1M
WHK-A - 2E, 1M
WHK-B - 1E, 1B, +5% LA Armor Strength
WHK-C - 2E, +5% LA Armor Strength

The Prime and the A are effectively the same, EXCEPT there should be access BY DEFAULT to the lower arm actuators... yet it is totally missing. I would hope people would tweet PGI to fix this (and just their arm actuator situation is general, since it SHOULD be accessible to all mechs...) but whatever I guess.

The B's omnipod is interesting and technically superior to the Right Arm's version, but it may be difficult to get a good ballistic on the mech by design. Creativity is required...

The C's omnipod should be superior if you have no need more the missile hardpoint...


Right Arm
WHK-Prime - 2E
WHK-A - 1B, +10% RA Armor Strength
WHK-B - 3E
WHK-C - 2E

The Prime and C's hardpoints are the same (even the equipment inside it). The ballistic hardpoint on the A would normally be interesting, but like in Star Wars... "It's a trap". 10% Armor Strength only comes to a bit more than a 5 point gain... and is inconsequential given the circumstances. That is why the Warhawk-B's Right Arm is more useful.

The B's omnipod here is interesting is currently it is the ONLY SOURCE OF ARM ARTICULATION. I believe it previously had a negative quirk (for reasons beyond my comprehension) as no nerf is necessary on a mech that relies on BIG weapons to maximize the space it has.

Once you realize it's "go big or go home" for a mech that is faster than a Stalker... you "should" be good right? Well...


2) Field Report - "Pardon me, I thought you were a Dire Wolf..."

The bad part of the visuals of this mech is that from afar, it looks too much like a Dire Wolf that it draws significant amounts of attention that a Dire Wolf gets, but yet it can't dish ANYWHERE near the same firepower as a Direwolf. That in itself is the sad state of affairs.

This coupled with a large frame similar to a Dire Wolf, it becomes a problem on the hitbox front. Note that if you actually rotate the mech, you'll see that that arms literally don't cover most of the side torsos of the mech. Similar to the Maddog, you will be FORCED to have a shield side. In the cases where you are able to build a symmetrical mech (like the Wubhawk), you will most likely end up trying to protect the right side of the mech despite having likely having more DHS on the left side of the mech. That becomes a problem down the line.

Fortunately, if you are using a missile heavy mech, it is to your benefit to use the left arm for your initial stash of ammo AND then you should be able to sacrifice it while the remaining part of the ammo is on the Right Arm... NOT the Right Torso. Putting it on the Right Torso makes your ammo supply vulnerable and delays any use of the ammo in the Left Arm. To properly sacrifice the Left Arm, you really need to consume ammo at a rapid rate to gain such benefits.

While I've said everything that needs to be said about the squishy durability of the mech, that is the only thing that allows it to stay afloat a bit. This makes positioning incredibly important and is a required attribute a pilot needs to make the most of the mech.

It is a little quirky/weird on the weapon placement as the 3rd energy hardpoint on the right arm of the Warhawk-B is on the lower section. The Ballistic hardpoint in either arm omnipod benefits from this by keeping its location on the upper part of the arm... but it is kind of poor design on the "legomech" phase of the dynamic visual hardpoints. It is worth pointing out.

Also, the missile rack on the left arm is REALLY low swung... which makes the use of SRMs incredibly problematic as it requires clearance. This is much less of an issue when you run lock on missiles.

When building a missile based mech... the most interesting aspect is to put it together through the Warhawk-B... either max out @ 4M or go 3M with a 10% cooldown. The latter is actually incredible as it allows you to run something as nasty as 3 SSRM6s as anti-light backup (and you'll likely to need it because of the limited arm articulation due to bugs) and limited torso twist range as you'll be stuck at the stock 90 (before efficiency bonuses) instead of 105 (w/o the Warhawk-C Right Torso) or 110 that the direct fire options have.

If you really wanted to run SRMs/ASRMs on the Warhawk... avoiding the use of the missile arm is optimal... and just go 3M total in the torsos (CT+RT).

Getting creative on the builds is another matter... and I can provide them when asked (the Wubhawk though is stupidly easy to build, so you can figure that out on your own).

The one thing that needs to be said is that using large bulky weapons is essentially required as the tonnage saved by going with smaller weapons isn't favorable. If you build it kind of like a Stalker... particularly the Misery (or even the Stalker-5M or 3F), it suddenly makes a lot more sense.

Long range makes you useful (for durability)... as speed gets you where you want to go... but it almost feels like you end up in brawls that you cannot avoid on the same token (like what Atlases have to face, despite having that speed). So, you need to be a bit decisive in what you need accomplished as the mech is utterly unforgiving if you make a mistake. Even the Stalker operates the same way, but isn't quite as squishy... (they are even the same tonnage and armor)...

For whatever reason, the mech is predominantly feast or famine based. It's kinda like being an Assault support mech like the Awesome, but pays for it for the same reason alone. When you do succeed... it's because you survived all of the chaos and can punish everyone for leaving you alive. It's weird that way.


So... can this get better?


3) The Future - Warhawk-C, I choose thee!

While this isn't released for everyone for C-bills quite yet, this is actually the best variant of the bunch... like the Direwolf-B for those that run a Dire Wolf. However, it won't really fix what ails it... but it will make things more manageable..

I guess there are 3 things that should be addressed, but also be looked into anyways...

1) Fix the arm actuator situation - This mech and the Direwolf suffer from like "last minute designs" or something as there are missing Lower Arm Actuators that were in the TRO (at least the Warhawk-A's Right Arm). I'd like to think people would tweet about it, but it is what it is until then... a bit broken (like many other mechs).

2) Reevaluate some of the rules of omnipod construction, particular for DHS - I feel this in some part is an extension of the Nova. The DHS on mechs that already have 10 DHS naturally due to the engine should honestly not have locked DHS. Mechs like the Kitfox or Adder would not be affected by this rule and it would allow for better allocation of ammo and other things that mechs are dependent on... which leads me to the next point...

3) Create actual omnipods for the Warhawk - based on point #2 - The mech's potential is lost due to DHS lockage.. but moreso any sort of weapons loadout. The mech is SO dependent on the right side YET the left torso has all those locked DHS... its missing potential exists.

Unfortunately, I don't have any great ideas though... but at the very least... not being able to move locked DHS around really sucks.

The best "compromise" would actually address the construction issues... like having "the required amount of DHS" on a mech.

For instance... the Warhawk has 10 locked in DHS. If you were able to juggle where the DHS went... it wouldn't be as much of a drag to have the Left Torso to be "a void".

Same could actually be said for other locked in components like the Nova/Summoner's JJs or the Mist Lynx's BAP. As long as the equipment is present on the mech when the build is saved, then it wouldn't be so much of a drag.


Anyways, the Warhawk is a trial in mech building and just patience... because the mech as currently constituted is just a very quirky thing.

While I haven't really mentioned ERPPCs as this mech is known for it... that has more to do with the state of balance. The lack of ERPPC quirks on Warhawk seems necessary... but again... it's a balance issue.

What really sucks is this... the current state of Clan Lights and Clan Assaults is a really mixed bag. Everything in between is far more appreciable when it comes to omnimech design (even the Nova).

Maybe the next Clan Assault (and Light) will not be so quirky.

[Jack Corban]

tl;dr can you compress your statement into one sentence ?

Edited by Jack Corban, 15 February 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

If you can't do well with the Warhawk, you're not a good assault mech pilot. That's just plain and simple.

The Warhawk C-variant isn't a "glimmer of hope". If anything, it has the potential of making the Warhawk one of the best assault mechs in the game.

Its biggest weakness is the lack of viable builds. It has a handful of really good builds and an infinite number of bad ones. The joy of coming up with new and exciting builds is not part o the Warhawk experience.

[Metus regem]

It covers too much for the lazy TLDR people.

[Golden Vulf]

Generally here is what can be done to improve the Warhawk:

• Unlock FF and Endo upgrades. By removing Ferro Fibrous armor and using Endo Steel instead, you gain 1 ton of free space.
  
• Hard Point inflation for empty omnipods on Prime variants. Put 1 or 2 energy hard points on the right side torso. It is an omnimech, this much is completely within the realms of acceptable modifications.
  
• Allow clan players to replace the center torso omnipods of their mechs, or give empty center torsos some hard point inflation. This is one of the few things that clan players are annoyed at. They have these prime variants they payed real money for, that end up being much less valuable than generic C-bill variants.
  
• Unlock non-engine mounted Heat Sinks. The Warhawk has 10 extra heatsinks locked. 4 are internal engine ones, but 6 are locked in the chasis taking up the entire left torso, the legs, and part of the right torso. Unlocking just these 6 would remove the need to only boat energy weapons.
  
• And as a LAST AND FINAL MEASURE after ALL other things have been tried and if it still needs them, quirks. Quirks should come ABSOLUTELY LAST.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 15 February 2015 - 05:21 PM.

[Ultimax]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 15 February 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

If you can't do well with the Warhawk, you're not a good assault mech pilot. That's just plain and simple.

The Warhawk C-variant isn't a "glimmer of hope". If anything, it has the potential of making the Warhawk one of the best assault mechs in the game.

Its biggest weakness is the lack of viable builds. It has a handful of really good builds and an infinite number of bad ones. The joy of coming up with new and exciting builds is not part o the Warhawk experience.

I think Deathlike's summary was pretty good, but I do agree with you.


It's a mech with a lot of limitations, but the handful of good builds it has are solid.

It's not competitive tier, but I'd put the Warhawk against most assault mechs in the game without thinking twice.


The only Assault mechs I feel outclass it are higher tonned mechs like DWF, KCG, BNC.

There are a few standout Stalker builds that also do things the Warhawk can't, conversely there are a number of builds the Warhawk can do that the Stalker can't. At 85 tons they are relatively well matched vs. one another.

[Golden Vulf]

Ultimatum X, on 15 February 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I think Deathlike's summary was pretty good, but I do agree with you.


It's a mech with a lot of limitations, but the handful of good builds it has are solid.

It's not competitive tier, but I'd put the Warhawk against most assault mechs in the game without thinking twice.


The only Assault mechs I feel outclass it are higher tonned mechs like DWF, KCG, BNC.

There are a few standout Stalker builds that also do things the Warhawk can't, conversely there are a number of builds the Warhawk can do that the Stalker can't. At 85 tons they are relatively well matched vs. one another.

Yeah, the Warhawk can use lighter clan weapons, but has 11 tons locked that it can't get access to. The Stalker can outclass it in weapons if it take an XL, or be a little more durable with slightly less fire power if it takes a slower standard.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5f6b389cc9886b9 taking advantage of some serious quirks.

LARGE PULSE LASER RANGE: 7.50 %
ENERGY RANGE: 7.50 %
MEDIUM LASER DURATION: -7.50 %
LASER DURATION: -7.50 %
MISSILE HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 %

compared to a similar build on Warhawk

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2046b801f14866d

The clan mech would be able to fit some extra missile weapons and would be a little faster. But neither one could zombie very well. The Warhawk has some serious close in fire power, but heat issues. At longer ranges they even out a bit.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 15 February 2015 - 05:58 PM.

[Deathlike]

Jack Corban, on 15 February 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

tl;dr can you compress your statement into one sentence ?

Yes.

When it's good, it's good.

When it's bad, it's terribad.

How's that?

If a mech was that popular, you'd see more people using it... but alternatively it's so hard that you honestly have to work through various issues to make the most of it.

Sometimes a mech is more complex than just "hey, everyone uses it, so it must be OP" or "hey, noone uses it, so it must suck because PGI".

We're in a society where people think must make full declarations on good and bad... that there's no inbetween. That is a travesty. If everything could be summed in TL;DR... you'd almost think we'd all have ADHD of some form.... and that's not right.

[Ultimax]

Golden Vulf, on 15 February 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Yeah, the Warhawk can use lighter clan weapons, but has 11 tons locked that it can't get access to. The Stalker can outclass it in weapons if it take an XL, or be a little more durable with slightly less fire power if it takes a slower standard.

1) Use energy weapons and put those DHS to use. This is my WHK-Prime. (I used to run Gauss + 2x CERPPCs until the speed nerfs).
2) No one smart uses an XL in a Stalker. It's a death trap, one of the worst mechs in the game for XL.