19 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

I really can't find anything that works well in this mech. The STND ac20 build is too chunky, the gauss ERLL build is too slow+low energy HP, and the 4mls ac10 build is fragile.

Can anyone suggest a build for this mech that is in drastic need of some better/more specialized quirks?

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 28 February 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[Project_Mercy]

It's pretty terrible. Because it was the least terrible dragon before the the perks, it was flagged Tier 3 instead of 5 like the others. It has never really been on par with the tier 5 dragons since. I prefer a uac5, SRM6 and lasers.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I wonder how a 4LL build might work, I'm tempted to give it a go again at some point. This was with max 400, armor and an XL 300. I currently have 4 MPL, an SRM 4 and AC/5 with three total tons of ammo, I might give a go for some matches to see how it works as a Flanker, Supporter.

[Brody319]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c10e39e204747a6

[Armorine]

Ac20, 4ml is what I run std engine. For zombie. Honestly the flames a hard argon to use. It's still my favorite for city brawling.

Shave the legs. I've never been brought down by the legs in a dragon. Always been cored. Barn door sides.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Gauss + 4MPL is pretty good... You get long-range heatless punch, short-range effectiveness, and you could go XL for speed if desired. If you want to use a standard engine, then you might as well use a Hunchback because the drop in tonnage lets you use a much lighter engine to achieve the same speed (HBK with a 225 moves at the same speed as a Dragon with a ~280 and the Hunchback is a much smaller target with almost 180° torso twist and great AC/20 quirks)

[Alistair Winter]

Here's my experience, from over 200 matches played in the Flame.

As a 60 ton mech, one of the few advantages you have is the AC20. Single ballistic mechs without either AC20s or some crazy ballistic quirks (e.g. Grid Iron) have pretty much been left behind in the current meta, I think. A single AC10 is garbage, a single UAC5 is meh-tastic. The only thing you have that will strike fear into your opponents is that AC20. Nobody likes an AC20 to the face, no one.To me, it's a no brainer.


It's tempting to build the Flame into a laserboat with a small ballistic weapon and a huge XL engine, but that basically means you're surrendering the only advantage this mech has, in order to make it a poor man's Timber Wolf / CTF-1X.

You have slightly lower laser duration than normal, which is good for high alpha strikes anyway, as opposed to low alpha, high-DPS builds using the AC10, AC5 or UAC5.

Here's my most successful build.
AC20 (4 tons of ammo), 4xMed las, STD280 engine. 39% cooling efficiency, although I don't think Smurfy calculates with the quirks. And even if it does, this is an alpha-based build anyway, which relies on hit and run tactics more than sustained fire.

83.2 kph, more than fast enough to use agility and get the first draw on most heavier mechs, or run circles around assault mechs.

Good luck!

Disclaimer: I actually don't own this mech. My opening statement about having played 200+ matches was a total fabrication, to make the rest of my post seem more credible. Sorry.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

Have you tried a NARC tube? I really recommend a NARC tube.

[Wintersdark]

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 28 February 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

Have you tried a NARC tube? I really recommend a NARC tube.

lol!

---

As someone who played the Flame very extensively - purchased it, my first hero, on it's release day, and was my favourite (warts and all) for a really long time - I have to say... It's pretty much junk right now. It got "Tier 3" ranking because it was the best Dragon, but that was grossly unfair to it - just meant it got weak quirks, and it wasn't nearly "Tier 3" competitive at that point.

I love the Flame. I do. But it's just not a good mech now, and hasn't been even remotely good since Ghost Heat.

Back in the day, a 4LL build with a 350XL worked quite well. Ghost heat ruined that. The 3LL cap doesn't really help here, because you still suffer full penalties for firing 4LL's together (that is, +2LL ghost heat penalty). And no, you don't want to fire them in two pairs - the Flame, like all Dragons, really doesn't ever want to be taking fire. Fire one pair of lasers, and your opponent knows where you are. Waiting another full beam duration to start twisting away is a sure way to get yourself killed fast.

The Dragon needs speed. It MUST have speed. This is what wrecks AC20 builds. If you want to run an AC20 striker, you do it in a HBK-4G (or maybe a CN9-YLW/AH) - both of these move at comparable speeds with comparable armor and way better hitboxes, smaller (HBK) or more tanky (CN9). HBK's or CN9's have far more heavily quirked AC20's making an enormous offensive difference. The extra 10t doesn't help the Dragon, as it just requires a larger engine to compensate, leaving you with a larger mech with much worse hitboxes.

Probably the best remaining Flame build is Gauss+4ML(optionally +SRM in the CT), where at least it gets decent firing angles from the Gauss Rifle. But even in this case, a Shadowhawk (yay JJ's!) or HBK-GI would do exactly the same job much better.

Poor Flame, it's just broken now.

[Mavairo]

Flame is terrible.

Use other Dragons..they're all vastly superior.

[Wintersdark]

Mavairo, on 28 February 2015 - 09:57 PM, said:

Flame is terrible.

Use other Dragons..they're all vastly superior.

It's horrible, because it's true.

I cry for the day my Flame was the best Dragon, and my best mech - for it was those things in spite of being a Dragon. Now, it's just the worst of a poor set of mechs.

[Mavairo]

Wintersdark, on 28 February 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

It's horrible, because it's true.

I cry for the day my Flame was the best Dragon, and my best mech - for it was those things in spite of being a Dragon. Now, it's just the worst of a poor set of mechs.

Honestly it was never the best Dragon. The entire strength of the Dragon comes on it's arm articulations with that ballistic slot, that allows you to shoot targets well below your cockpits viewing angle, or well above it. The Fang was actually always better.
The two best pre quirks was
1C and Fang imo.

Post quirks... 1N and Fang, with the 1C sitting pretty right behind it.

Edited by Mavairo, 28 February 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

I was just thinking about this last night. I took the flame out for a spin....and found it all to be true. It was much more viable before quirks. Now its a huge liability. Mavairo, speak for yourself. I found the high energy point of the flame use to be ppc* heaven for peaking. Now it just doesnt have the quirks to make enough damage in time for such strategies



Edit:
*ac10

Edited by Rezn0I2, 28 February 2015 - 11:03 PM.

[Mavairo]

Rezn0I2, on 28 February 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

I was just thinking about this last night. I took the flame out for a spin....and found it all to be true. It was much more viable before quirks. Now its a huge liability. Mavairo, speak for yourself. I found the high energy point of the flame use to be ppc heaven for peaking. Now it just doesnt have the quirks to make enough damage in time for such strategies

If it's energy you are after, the 1C does it better with peeking since it has 2 high ST mounted energy slots.
Articulation wise, the other DRGs, do it just as good, and do it while running cooler packing an AC10, which is pretty much the only gun that really works for the DRG (pre quirked 1N).

[Lulz Kev]

Sell it. I did.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Come to think of it, i said that backwards. The ac 10 in the high left shoulder plus the ppc on the left arm use to be amazing for peaking*

does anyone remember the pre quirking quirks for the dragons? it was one of the few mechs that had i think the %10 ballistics cooldown. Thats why i prefered it over the other dragons, if i recall correctly

[Lulz Kev]

Here are the patch notes for when the quirks were first introduced. I'm not sure if the list is updated to current quirks or still shows the original ones.


http://mwomercs.com/...49-04-nov-2014/

[PocketAces]

2LL, 2ML and an SRM4+Art with a 360XL, runs fast and unless on a hot map, can fire all day with no heat issues. Been a while since I ran this build but it was a fast flanker and can out put a constant stream of damage.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d8762ee1821a1df

Edited by PocketAces, 01 March 2015 - 01:05 AM.

[Davers]

Poor Flame. I guess torso mounted AC/20= Tier 3? I can honestly say that i have no idea why else it was ranked so high. Maybe PGI feared giving a Hero mech good quirks?

[Wintersdark]

Mavairo, on 28 February 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Honestly it was never the best Dragon. The entire strength of the Dragon comes on it's arm articulations with that ballistic slot, that allows you to shoot targets well below your cockpits viewing angle, or well above it. The Fang was actually always better.
The two best pre quirks was
1C and Fang imo.

Post quirks... 1N and Fang, with the 1C sitting pretty right behind it.

pft, pre ghost heat the Flame was decidedly better. 4 large lasers with the crazy arm reach where outstanding, or Gauss on that shoulder. That was pre ghost heat, though. Ghost heat killed that.

After ghost heat, they all sucked.

Edited by Wintersdark, 01 March 2015 - 12:59 AM.