125 replies to this topic

[HARDKOR]

Chef Kerensky, on 09 March 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

Quirks, hitboxes, hardpoint location, engine and tonnage limitations, and prior experience with similar mechs fulfilling similar roles. The Zeus is dead on arrival. It will not be feasible.

If the guns aren't above cockpit level and easily boatable, it better have killer quirks or it's garbage.

[Michael Costanza]

Koniving, on 06 March 2015 - 03:56 PM, said:

"Bad quirks" are supposed to be indicative of a high-quality mech with difficult to kill hitboxes. The top tier mechs are supposed to be virtually quirk-less.

That's why you see so many people running Jenners and Cataphracts and Highlanders.

Oh wait... nvm.

[Tasker]

Chef Kerensky, on 09 March 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

Quirks, hitboxes, hardpoint location, engine and tonnage limitations, and prior experience with similar mechs fulfilling similar roles. The Zeus is dead on arrival. It will not be feasible.

This.

Zeus have nothing to make it worth bringing over mechs that fill similar roles. Quirks inferior to Orion Protector. Lack Jump Jets like Victor (which is OK mech). Lack high energy hard points and good quirks like Battlemaster and Stalker.

Zeus with AC/5 quirk would need quirk similar in strength to Dragon-1N to make it worth consideration. Even then, same firepower as Dragon 1N for 20 more ton? On slower chassis, arm still vulnerable? Silly.

[Wingbreaker]

Chef Kerensky, on 09 March 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

Yeah, that would be really bad. [turns to face clan wave 3 pack; the flesh on my face melts away, leaving only my skull, which is now wreathed in fire]

*Counts days until OP-as-****-wave drops*

[Dawnstealer]

Tasker, on 09 March 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

This.

Zeus have nothing to make it worth bringing over mechs that fill similar roles. Quirks inferior to Orion Protector. Lack Jump Jets like Victor (which is OK mech). Lack high energy hard points and good quirks like Battlemaster and Stalker.

Zeus with AC/5 quirk would need quirk similar in strength to Dragon-1N to make it worth consideration. Even then, same firepower as Dragon 1N for 20 more ton? On slower chassis, arm still vulnerable? Silly.

I agree if you build around the AC5 platform (which the quirks suggest), you're not going to get a very good result. What the Zeus can do, that no Tbolt, Awesome (except the 9M), or Dragon can do is zombie: with a LPL in the CT, this thing can still cause pain even with both torsos blown off.

Wingbreaker, on 09 March 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

*Counts days until OP-as-****-wave drops*

It'll be interesting to watch the CW map after Wave III rolls out: I'll bet the map shift is even more dramatic than the 9S nerf.

[Tasker]

Dawnstealer, on 09 March 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

I agree if you build around the AC5 platform (which the quirks suggest), you're not going to get a very good result. What the Zeus can do, that no Tbolt, Awesome (except the 9M), or Dragon can do is zombie: with a LPL in the CT, this thing can still cause pain even with both torsos blown off.

No offense, but feel that a pretty horrible niche for mech. Much rather have mech that is good in fight than mech that is good in death.

[Dawnstealer]

Tasker, on 09 March 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

No offense, but feel that a pretty horrible niche for mech. Much rather have mech that is good in fight than mech that is good in death.

And I tend to agree with you, but that won't mean I won't try to make something that works. I settled on this build for the Enforcer:

ENF-4R

I regularly solo TBRs in that thing.

So if I try hard enough, I can find some sort of niche. But you're right - that's not saying that there aren't other mechs that will do it better.

The only mech the Zeus should be compared with is the Awesome, though. When it comes down to it, if you have an 80 ton slot, will you bring an Awesome or a Zeus? Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

**EDIT:

I should also say that the RP-er in me really wants to do a House-specific drop deck, so Atlas, Zeus, Commando...

I guess a Firestarter or Jenner would be the only things that would fit into the fourth slot.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 09 March 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[Wingbreaker]

Dawnstealer, on 09 March 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

It'll be interesting to watch the CW map after Wave III rolls out: I'll bet the map shift is even more dramatic than the 9S nerf.

I think the hopper will be a nasty addition, but the zeus will likely be DOA, so we'll see how much of a change there is next week.

I think the first half of wave 3 wont be THAT much of a problem, but the addition of a viable clan dual gauss sniper may change a number of things. It'll be the second half that really makes the difference, likely.

[Tasker]

Dawnstealer, on 09 March 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

The only mech the Zeus should be compared with is the Awesome, though. When it comes down to it, if you have an 80 ton

At 80 tons, would bring Victor every time. Solid mech.

[Dawnstealer]

Victor's a good mech, but the lack of JJs on the Zeus will likely mean it'll carry more armor. Granted, in this game, maneuverability counts for more than armor.

Victor's also a Davion mech.

[Tasker]

Dawnstealer, on 09 March 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

Victor's a good mech, but the lack of JJs on the Zeus will likely mean it'll carry more armor. Granted, in this game, maneuverability counts for more than armor.

Victor's also a Davion mech.

Factory captured by noble Kuritan warriors in past. Plenty of Victors in Kuritan hands. Ha ha ha.

[Dawnstealer]

Tasker, on 09 March 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

Factory captured by noble Kuritan warriors in past. Plenty of Victors in Kuritan hands. Ha ha ha.

hahahahaa - well...to Kurita's credit, they didn't bargain away Steiner worlds in an ill-thought out deal with Marik...

[LegioIV]

Tasker, on 09 March 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

Factory captured by noble Kuritan warriors in past. Plenty of Victors in Kuritan hands. Ha ha ha.

That and the Victor K is a Kuritan Mech through and through, I like how in the lore most Kurita samurai Refused to use it.

Edited by Legioxx, 09 March 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Koniving]

Michael Costanza, on 09 March 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

That's why you see so many people running Jenners and Cataphracts and Highlanders.

Oh wait... nvm.

The other mechs are heavily over-quirked. It's a situation of Power Creep.


They were awesome and meta before quirks, but with everything else so heavily over-quirked they have fallen out of favor.

It's an issue of quirks being too good, too high and overcompensating for minor issues or PGI's lack of desire to actually fix core issues in MWO in regards to those 'lower end' mechs.

[Dagorlad13]

Chef Kerensky, on 09 March 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Dual ballistic arm hardpoints equal to eye level and an energy hardpoint above eye level on a 65 tonner with clantech and removable missile hitboxes, all wrapped up in a meta that favors gauss rifles and laser vomit on high hardpoints. If you don't like that you can always just swap out parts for other variants until you are minmaxed for obscene levels of damage in some other configuration. Cauldron Born clearly needs quirks

1) The Ebon Jaguar / Cauldron Born is not currently in the game.

2) The Ebon Jaguar / Cauldron Born will have high-mounted ballistic hardpoints, which, other than Gauss Rifles, mount less effective (than IS) ballistic weapons .

3) The IS has mech s with high-mounted ballistics: Jaeger, Blackjack, Shadow Hawk....

Finally, Clan tech is supposed to be superior to IS tech, not equal, so if that turns you off from playing an IS Faction, then buy a Clan mech or two and switch factions (for a very insignificant penalty).

[Ron Ron]

IronClaws, on 09 March 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

1) The Ebon Jaguar / Cauldron Born is not currently in the game.

2) The Ebon Jaguar / Cauldron Born will have high-mounted ballistic hardpoints, which, other than Gauss Rifles, mount less effective (than IS) ballistic weapons .

3) The IS has mech s with high-mounted ballistics: Jaeger, Blackjack, Shadow Hawk....

Finally, Clan tech is supposed to be superior to IS tech, not equal, so if that turns you off from playing an IS Faction, then buy a Clan mech or two and switch factions (for a very insignificant penalty).

Point me to the part where PGI stated they intend for Clans to be imbalanced please.

[Michael Costanza]

Tasker, on 09 March 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

This.

Zeus have nothing to make it worth bringing over mechs that fill similar roles. Quirks inferior to Orion Protector. Lack Jump Jets like Victor (which is OK mech). Lack high energy hard points and good quirks like Battlemaster and Stalker.

Zeus with AC/5 quirk would need quirk similar in strength to Dragon-1N to make it worth consideration. Even then, same firepower as Dragon 1N for 20 more ton? On slower chassis, arm still vulnerable? Silly.

The Zeus wouldn't need ac/5 quirks as strong as the Dragon to be useful. Lesser quirks would be offset by having more ammo, more armor and room for more weapons. That's also why the BNC-3E is pretty useful.

But the Zeus does need more than what it got.

Edited by Michael Costanza, 09 March 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[Onmyoudo]

IronClaws, on 09 March 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Finally, Clan tech is supposed to be superior to IS tech, not equal,

People should really have learned by now that stating this as a good thing basically invalidates everything else you post.

[Dagorlad13]

Ron Ron, on 09 March 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Point me to the part where PGI stated they intend for Clans to be imbalanced please.

When you launch the game it says "A Battletech Game". Clan Mechs in Battletech circa 3050 are more advanced and more powerful than their IS counterparts. Change "A Battletech Game" to "Inspired by Battletech" and there would be no issue (and PGI would lose many backers).

Edited by IronClaws, 09 March 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[Tasker]

Michael Costanza, on 09 March 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

The Zeus wouldn't need ac/5 quirks as strong as the Dragon to be useful. Lesser quirks would be offset by having more ammo, more armor and room for more weapons. That's also why the BNC-3E is pretty useful.

BNC-3E has torso mounted weapons, fits 3 AC/5 (instead of 2) and much better quirks than what Zeus has so far.