270 replies to this topic

[Creovex]

Vassago Rain, on 08 March 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

That's not how it works, or George Lucas would never have allowed any star wars related mods. It was shut down because the devs were working at crytek, and the other companies involved knew they could use that to leverage LL getting killed before they added a mechlab and good aiming - the inclusion of which would have turned LL into a grindless MWO with airplanes, tanks, combat vehicles, power armor, clans, better graphics, better sound, better everything, more maps, open to community projects, private servers...

I don't have to explain to anyone in here how embarrassing it would have been for a years old mod to eclipse the one commercial entry in the franchise.

We can talk the legality associated with it but in reality George could have gone after anyone if he wanted to go to that level... just takes ANY proof of revenue, even adsense nowadays.... Anyways, it doesn't matter, LL was cool but I felt what they did was suitable for a Planetside (should have sold it to Sony) scale game but not 32 v 32 game.

mrripley9, on 08 March 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

My experience has been different with the game style. It's more... tactical. I love the jump jets. xD It's actually jumping. xD

The JJS sucked. Sorry but I played Frogger at the arcade and find it lame to make an action game based around it.

Overall who cares... MW:LL is dead.

Edited by Creovex, 08 March 2015 - 06:02 PM.

[mark v92]

Creovex, on 08 March 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

The JJS sucked. Sorry but I played Frogger at the arcade and find it lame to make an action game based around it.

Nah jj's were cool. you could actualy jump over a mech and hit his backside or jump into a group and make them panic

[Creovex]

mark v92, on 08 March 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Nah jj's were cool. you could actualy jump over a mech and hit his backside or jump into a group and make them panic

Hey to each there own.... I prefer some jump, but if I want to be Apollo 13 it is not in a mech...

[Mcgral18]

Creovex, on 08 March 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Hey to each there own.... I prefer some jump, but if I want to be Apollo 13 it is not in a mech...

Can you honestly say MWO's HoverJets™ beat MWLLs JUMP Jets?

[mark v92]

Creovex, on 08 March 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Hey to each there own.... I prefer some jump, but if I want to be Apollo 13 it is not in a mech...

atleast they were useful in combat. gives you another layer of combat tactics.

in mwo they are only useful for jumping on low ledges or to facehug a building to get a bit of height with them.

[Bishop Steiner]

Vassago Rain, on 08 March 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

LL was a supposedly great game that won mod of the year, all year, for about 1000 years, yet never had any players, and balance was extremely questionable.

In short, it wasn't a fun game, but over the years, they allegedly cleaned up their act, and by 2013, you no longer got blown up by artillery, power armor could actually be hit, there were tons of maps, and so on. Despite not being fun, it was a technological masterpiece, and did things that crytek themselves assured wandering samurai that cryengine could never, ever, ever do.

Then, because people apparently felt extremely threatened that LL had like 100 players spread over 40 servers, microsoft, IGP, or whoever used 'friendly advice' to make the devs stop developing it before they could release a mechlab and MWO-styled aiming. The story and positions changed repeatedly, and we'll likely never know just what happened, or why, but the most likely reason is, people related to MWO felt pretty embarrassed that an ancient mod for an outdated version of the engine was more technologically advanced, and had more to do with battletech, than MWO.

It's not all bad, though. LL's devs moved on to rise rapidly in crytek, and after crytek had their little collapse, they were snatched up by RSI, of starcitizen fame.

LL footage.



Phil doesn't like talking about LL, its devs, MW4, and mektek, because the devs for those games allegedly have quite some bad blood for him, due to selling out to PGI.

it's just funny that the way people gush over it.... man they need to lose the rose colored glasses. I could never find people on the server. Great games don't have non existent playerbases.

Vassago Rain, on 08 March 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

That's not how it works, or George Lucas would never have allowed any star wars related mods. It was shut down because the devs were working at crytek, and the other companies involved knew they could use that to leverage LL getting killed before they added a mechlab and good aiming - the inclusion of which would have turned LL into a grindless MWO with airplanes, tanks, combat vehicles, power armor, clans, better graphics, better sound, better everything, more maps, open to community projects, private servers...

I don't have to explain to anyone in here how embarrassing it would have been for a years old mod to eclipse the one commercial entry in the franchise.

unless we were playing different MW:LL I really don't think it was that big a danger. They couldn't even get a functioning mechlab, and their maps look ed like MW4 retreads. I did like the basic designs, and their damage effects and such, but was ever more underwhelmed by the HUDs, and other aspects of the game.

[FupDup]

Vassago Rain, on 08 March 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

That's not how it works, or George Lucas would never have allowed any star wars related mods. It was shut down because the devs were working at crytek, and the other companies involved knew they could use that to leverage LL getting killed before they added a mechlab and good aiming - the inclusion of which would have turned LL into a grindless MWO with airplanes, tanks, combat vehicles, power armor, clans, better graphics, better sound, better everything, more maps, open to community projects, private servers...

I don't have to explain to anyone in here how embarrassing it would have been for a years old mod to eclipse the one commercial entry in the franchise.

[Bishop Steiner]

Taemien, on 08 March 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

But of course the communities in question doesn't want to take the blame. So they're firing at PGI, MS, or even Catalyst Games or Topp who have no idea what is going on. Or even Harmony Gold, even though they didn't care that MWLL used the Warhammer, Rifleman, and Marauder.

HG couldn't really do much as it was a nonprofit game.

[Kassatsu]

Creovex, on 08 March 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Hey to each there own.... I prefer some jump, but if I want to be Apollo 13 it is not in a mech...

I'm thinking they stuck closer to the TT values of jump jet distances and potential height in LL, as opposed to a light mech that's supposed to jump 240 meters (horizontally on an arc, with enough fuel to not explode their legs on the landing that is) can slowly hover up to about 100 meters, vertically, with 50% more jump jets equipped than the stock variant that just did a 240 horizontal arc. And that's just the arbitrary mech lab values that mean exactly nothing at all. I have no idea how high it actually jumps in-game, though I did test it out and it was actually almost fun. But not quite.

By which I mean they made them jump jets.

...Or was it the actual height in TT? That would be interesting.

Edited by Kassatsu, 08 March 2015 - 07:32 PM.

[Spr1ggan]

Vassago Rain, on 08 March 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

LL was a supposedly great game that won mod of the year, all year, for about 1000 years, yet never had any players, and balance was extremely questionable.

In short, it wasn't a fun game, but over the years, they allegedly cleaned up their act, and by 2013, you no longer got blown up by artillery, power armor could actually be hit, there were tons of maps, and so on. Despite not being fun, it was a technological masterpiece, and did things that crytek themselves assured wandering samurai that cryengine could never, ever, ever do.

Then, because people apparently felt extremely threatened that LL had like 100 players spread over 40 servers, microsoft, IGP, or whoever used 'friendly advice' to make the devs stop developing it before they could release a mechlab and MWO-styled aiming. The story and positions changed repeatedly, and we'll likely never know just what happened, or why, but the most likely reason is, people related to MWO felt pretty embarrassed that an ancient mod for an outdated version of the engine was more technologically advanced, and had more to do with battletech, than MWO.

It's not all bad, though. LL's devs moved on to rise rapidly in crytek, and after crytek had their little collapse, they were snatched up by RSI, of starcitizen fame.

LL footage.



Phil doesn't like talking about LL, its devs, MW4, and mektek, because the devs for those games allegedly have quite some bad blood for him, due to selling out to PGI.

If only PGI had maps as awesome looking as that one. Love how there's a mist that impacts visibility without defiling my eyes the way Forest Colony does.

This fan trailer is pretty good as well.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 08 March 2015 - 07:40 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 March 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

it's just funny that the way people gush over it.... man they need to lose the rose colored glasses. I could never find people on the server. Great games don't have non existent playerbases.

I was playing with 20 people yesterday; none on right now.

There isn't always a population, hence why this is nice:
http://stats.spikx.net/mwll.html

[TrentTheWanderer]

It was fun, though not perfect. The scandal comes from the fact that this OK free mod was enough competition for MWO that PGI had to shut it down with (unfounded) threats of litigation.

If your primary means of competition in a market is threatening all your competitors it's usually because you know you aren't capable of creating an actually competitive product.

[GeneralArmchair]

One thing that I feel that MW:LL does far better than MWO is emphasising the importance of controling territory. The maps are larger and controling bases is far more influential on the outcome of the match than in MWO.

If you wanted to win, then your team needed a combination of swift rapid response units that could react to a changing battlefield and slow heavy units that could hold terrain and repulse most assailants. Condensing your whole team into a MWO-style muderball wasn't an option. You needed to split your team into lanceish sized units and fight over different objectives. Otherwise your opponents would take control of most of the map unopposed and you'd be bled dry.


I hope that MWO takes a lot of pages out of MW:LL's book as they continue to work on the CW game mode. I want them to recreate the need to split up into lances in order to have a hope to cover enough of the objectives.

Edited by GeneralArmchair, 08 March 2015 - 10:37 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Quiet embarrassing that MWLL many things did simply better.
lol they even got falling trees or ECM, LRM, narc, tag system that have sense

[Spr1ggan]

In my opinion MWLL has far better maps but MWO wins on mech models, animations, and control scheme. If only i could merge all those things...

[KraftySOT]

Not to mention a plethora of weapons MWO doesnt have, tanks, battle armor, aero...

Its not simply that MW LL isnt as polished up by a medium sized team, its the technical hurdle they jumped, that a medium sized team (PGI) cant.

Regardless of what happened, MW LL was the superior product. Had it continued full steam until today, it would be the far superior product. There were issues, but it was also a free mod.

Theres issues in MWO and it costs hundreds of dollars (if not thousands) to have available everything n MWO that was in MW LL. Only to fall short of large maps, vehicles, the complexity, the plethora of weapons (even the maxtech weapons I hate) and other things.

It STILL makes PGI look bad and MWLL isnt even still going, and rarely has players. MW LL shows the potential of what the franchise COULD be, if it was in the hands of people passionate and knowledgable of Battletech. Imagine that, with money.

PGI could have billions, it still wouldnt have the passion for the product that Samurai did. Battle armor? Not even on PGIs radar.

SMH.

Youll sadly never see the game that could be.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

and now I'm depressed again.

[Kalo Shin]

Vassago Rain, on 08 March 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

That's not how it works, or George Lucas would never have allowed any star wars related mods. It was shut down because the devs were working at crytek, and the other companies involved knew they could use that to leverage LL getting killed before they added a mechlab and good aiming - the inclusion of which would have turned LL into a grindless MWO with airplanes, tanks, combat vehicles, power armor, clans, better graphics, better sound, better everything, more maps, open to community projects, private servers...

I don't have to explain to anyone in here how embarrassing it would have been for a years old mod to eclipse the one commercial entry in the franchise.

I can't speak for Battletech, but I sure as hell can speak from experience from making SW Mods. If you make fanon content for Star Wars, then it belongs to George Lucas (Or did, now it belongs to disney). Meaning if you dedicated a couple years to developing a mod for EAW, then GL could have said "I like that, im gunna make money off of it.". If you want an example, the star destroyer trailer (The one where he brings it out oforbit) in Force Unleashed belonged to an artist called Ansel Hsaio, who did not receive credit/compensation for its usage due to this. SW has something to gain from mods, AFAIK, Battletech doesn't.

Edited by Kalo Shin, 08 March 2015 - 11:41 PM.

[Lulz Kev]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 08 March 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

and now I'm depressed again.

X2.

I miss MW4, MEKTEK, and MWLL.

Unfortunately MWO will never live up to any of those games, and that's very sad considering the later of them were "free mods"

Even if PGI stepped up and started putting that kind of effort into this game it still isn't going to get much better then what we have.

This game is more or less a hack of cry engine. Unfortunately they decided to go ahead and keep pouring half thought out content into an unstable foundation past the point of no return.

They can keep trying to do all the polishing and bug fixes they want while continuing to throw intern level quality content at the game. It isn't going to change the fact there are fundamental issues that can't be fixed without a complete overhaul of all the core concepts within the foundation.

I would also like to hear PGIs side of the story concerning MWLL.

[Strum Wealh]

Kassatsu, on 08 March 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

I'm thinking they stuck closer to the TT values of jump jet distances and potential height in LL, as opposed to a light mech that's supposed to jump 240 meters (horizontally on an arc, with enough fuel to not explode their legs on the landing that is) can slowly hover up to about 100 meters, vertically, with 50% more jump jets equipped than the stock variant that just did a 240 horizontal arc. And that's just the arbitrary mech lab values that mean exactly nothing at all. I have no idea how high it actually jumps in-game, though I did test it out and it was actually almost fun. But not quite.

By which I mean they made them jump jets.

...Or was it the actual height in TT? That would be interesting.

Even in TT, Jump Jets were much more effective in horizontal movement than in vertical movement.

That is, "n" Jump Jets allowed one to jump horizontally up to a distance of "n" hexes, and vertically up to a height of "n" elevation levels.
While a hex represents a horizontal distance of thirty (30) meters, an elevation/depth level represents a vertical distance of only six (6) meters.

So, a TT 'Mech that can jump up to 240 meters horizontally (8 hexes * 30 meters per hex) could only ascend up to 48 meters vertically (8 levels * 6 meters per level); likewise, 12 Jump Jets could carry a 'Mech up to 360 meters horizontally (12 hexes * 30 meters per hex) but only up to 72 meters vertically (12 levels * 6 meters per level) & 3 Jump Jets could carry a 'Mech up to 90 meters horizontally (3 hexes * 30 meters per hex) but only up to 18 meters vertically (3 levels * 6 meters per level).

Granted, this means that the slope on Paul's "# of JJs vs height" graph should be steeper (e.g. 12 Jump Jets should give a 12x maximum altitude increase over a single Jump Jet), but the altitude achievable with a single Jump Jet should be fairly anemic.
From that perspective, MWO's mid-2014 Jump Jet adjustment had the right principle in mind (relative to "making Jump Jets behave as they did in the source material"), even though their actual numbers are off.