29 replies to this topic

[Sandersson Jankins]

Howdy all,

I'll keep it short, I'm looking for CHEATCODES or PROTIPS to leading mostly-PUG groups in CW.

I've got the proper plays down for each map, at least the very basic ones which are simple enough to work with only nominal organization. Sometimes of course, I'll just make a tactical blunder and get some people wrecked, but it's a far sight better than complete silence on the comms.

Now, the issue. Take one of my recent CW matches. It was early in the morning for me, and the queues were all a bit shite. Couldn't get enough of my guys to attack anywhere, so we made do with dropping in defense of Kurita. Counter-attack on Boreal of course.

So, the time comes to push a gate. The most effective simple tactic I've found is a rush to sector e-6/d-6 through the small canyon. I let everyone know that we're gonna do that. I think I typed it out as well (although not sure, I certainly wasn't able to type in the heat of the actual fighting). I realize that some people refuse to enable voice-comms, or perhaps have them turned off/muted in ignorance. That's fine.

Even so, when the time came to push, me and my 4-5 guys did. I instructed them to get their heaviest mechs to instill confidence in our team to push behind us. I think we had 3 assaults, a heavy, and an ECM raven for coverage. The rest of our team was in standard fare for CW.

Of course, during the push, the teammates who remained silent on the comms the entire game (not all, I should not hyperbolise. Only about 3-4 sat COMPLETELY back. The other 2-3 players not in a group with us tried to push, and died awfully.)

I could not figure out why they would not push! I was clear on the comms, and since I've been a turbonerd online since I can really recall, I've led a lot of clans/units/factions/groups/circlejerks. I generally know how to SOUND like I know what I'm talking about anyway, and to be endearing.

However, of course, after your team is 3-12'd on the first wave, morale breaks down and people give up. Can't help that too much. Naturally, we were spawn-farmed.

So, I pose the question, what can I do differently? I'm not accepting the opinion of "pugs are just stupid rofl they wont do anything pure useless" at all. Surely there will be those that will go so far as to do the complete opposite of what I request, simply to show me that they can and i'm not the boss of them. That's fine, I can nothing about that. But what about those average joes, getting smashed in CW and wondering why?

I know for a fact that a lot of people experience VERY minimal communication and organization in CW. Hell, I've just experimented and dropped 1 or 2 times with literally nothing typed nor spoken the entire game. However, if I'm in a game, I'm gonna try to help out those that ain't got a clue, and those that want to perform well. Don't think I'll stop that. So throw me a bone here boys, what can I do differently?

Ideas from me include

Typing EVERYTHING out with proper map icons using team commander role. Some people don't speak your language, some people don't use sound/voip out of principle, and some people are hearing-impaired.

Keeping the plan SIMPLE; something resembling a huge rabble of steel pushing on the enemy as a single group is about all that I'm confident to try.

Not pissing anyone off; I guess that's worthy to post. People will hear it in your voice when you're disappointed, demoralized, etc. They are affected negatively by that. I don't have the mental fortitude to be a confident, upbeat, and active commander all the damn time, but I can try and so can anyone else.

[Tasker]

Come up with most simple plan possible, explain in as few words as possible, repeat a few times, and hope for best.

Tough to herd cats, respect anyone who try.

[sdsnowbum]

Might sound silly (and slightly annoying to try) but maybe have the folks who actually know what they're doing 'rgr' and then you repeat your orders whether you are typing or chatting. Just to convince the others that everyone is on a plan. Though I'd say if you just chat that should be enough. If someone doesn't listen I don't think they would read.

I feel for you though, tough being a leader and props for stepping up.

[Sandersson Jankins]

sdsnowbum, on 09 March 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

Might sound silly (and slightly annoying to try) but maybe have the folks who actually know what they're doing 'rgr' and then you repeat your orders whether you are typing or chatting. Just to convince the others that everyone is on a plan. Though I'd say if you just chat that should be enough. If someone doesn't listen I don't think they would read.

I feel for you though, tough being a leader and props for stepping up.

Ha, that is actually quite a good idea. Not silly at all. Thinking back on it, practically every game I've played with a hybrid unit-pug or plain pug composition that has done that has performed excellently. It shows you've got people listening up, very nice!

Really, I guess a lot of it is supporting the leader(s) so he/she/they can perform well in turn. I have found that if one person makes the large strategy, another one or two can call hotroutes/quick moves, and target focus. Also, in this way, you don't end up having one guy taking on the entire load of nerd-herding by himself. It can be rough. Ya gotta have multiple nerd-herders for ensured success.

[Amsro]

in the end the best way to get pugs to follow your group is to play matches multiple times with the pugs, show your worth and perhaps they will follow your lead.

This has been what OLD has been doing, seems to work great. Minimum 4-8 mechs in your group and take the map in small steps, eventually a kill lead will excite the pugs to follow you like lost puppies!!

After a while the pugs become confident and start leading with the very same plan in future matches.

It's priceless.

Get off our lawn!

[Abivard]

sdsnowbum, on 09 March 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

Might sound silly (and slightly annoying to try) but maybe have the folks who actually know what they're doing 'rgr' and then you repeat your orders whether you are typing or chatting. Just to convince the others that everyone is on a plan. Though I'd say if you just chat that should be enough. If someone doesn't listen I don't think they would read.

I feel for you though, tough being a leader and props for stepping up.

This is extremely important! it reinforces that the first persons plan is correct, it also is important that everyone go with the same plan. Phrasing can also help ie:

"Shall we all go alpha, push into c2 and kill them all? "

as opposed to '"go alpha, I know what I am doing obey me to win"

Never ever ask, "is there a plan?" unless you are solo dropping and your asking the big premade to tell you their plan, otherwise say " How about INSERT FAV GATE/TACTIC?" the basic and see what the response is, be positive.

Also, when herding cats, always try to go with the flow of things. ie you're grouping to push gate, you are waiting on one or two mechs, suddenly 1 or 2 at gate gets antsy and rushes in, it is best to just tell all GOGOGO, then to try and recall the two if they have committed.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Underhanded Motivational Trick #5891

Tell everyone they get a free Clan Adder if they get 25 points and they get a point every time they shoot Omega in a CW match.

[PerfectDuck]

Never be condescending or arrogant, as it will immediately turn them off and make them want to watch you fail or even worse, stand there and bicker in an attempt to prove they're better. Don't be insulted if a lone guy tries to command your five-person, instead convince him you all know what you're doing. Don't say "shut up and listen to us," instead say "We are a coordinated group and will try our best. You should probably follow us because we're on comms."

Phrase it like "It might not work but we need everyone together on this to try it" and generally the mob mentality will be light-hearted and willing to entertain your commands. Beginning like this is more likely to get gg's out of your comrades at the end even when you lose, instead of seething bitterness over your ineptitude.

Try to convince people not to stay at the gates before you go out. "If our rush fails, they'll all turn on you next anyway so come on and make this push strong and we'll respawn together"

Tell them they are probably more likely to succeed if they seize the moment than if they don't; get them pumped up for their chance to shine. "Let my Atlas get in front and soak damage, if you're close behind you can get lots of kills. We only have one shot at this."

[Kampfrausch]

You asked for cheat codes so psychology comes to my mind:

Usually when one persons starts giving commands there is still a chance that Player will ignore the talking guy.
Now we all know one person is easier to ignore than two talking people.
However in a unit ist usually agreed that only the leader gives command and everyone else stays silent unless they rely important Intel. Now u can change that

- At the start (best start still in orbit) make a short talk with ur teammate and let them, other Players, join in the talk.

often enough players notice the group who share the same unit tag and for whatever reason they might decide to let u do ur thing and still do their own thing.
However u can adress them directly and you can

- Single them out!

First talk to someone who already follows or seems inclined to follow you, e.g. assault who are not in ur time, shortly about loadout and tell them to stick to your front guy.
Next quickly adress others who joined u and give them orders promising kills and victory and make them stick to one or two of your teammates
Then find the ones who not joined u and adress them by name, calling for help almost never works adressing someone like "you with the blue shirt, call the police" does work more often.
Worst Thing is if there is a second group of players, split them - if you achieve that the last stray mechs will hopefully follow u close enough to add in their firepower because they dont want to die alone.

e.g.
1-5 is ur Team 6-8 follows you and 9-12 rather obviously do not
hey 6 whats ur Atlas/King Crab packing - "answer" - not bad! (even if it is, too late to change anyway) you go in with our 1&2 frontline
7 and 8 (Meds and Heavy) u are right behind with 3,4 (ECM) in the second line finishing off stragglers (kills) and ready to step in when someone from our front falls.
9 we could use ur "Chassis" in our front line 10 in our second group - move it!
Even if then 11 and 12 are not adressed they should feel more inclined to follow everyone else now.


Random things:
Move with purpose but try to pick them up, dont run in front of the gate and then tell them to do stuff, pick them up right in the landing Zone

Edited by Kampfrausch, 10 March 2015 - 01:34 AM.

[Remarius]

Follow the mantra KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid). People speak a lot of languages and English for many is a secondary or tertiary if you're playing in Euro TZ.

Start by just using say a few statements at the start that are common sense but establish you as the drop caller. For example:

"We're on counter attack so we need to kill as many of them as we can and then destroy Omega.

Keep together

Focus Targets

Call out artillery on us"

THEN give them your plan.

Remember people will need time to adjust to your tone, accent and cadence so you don't want to open with a complex plan. Its also natural to miss the first couple of words people say or get lost in their bit of the fight.

That last line about artillery is important for a few reasons - the obvious one ... but also it brings them into talking on comms, paying attention to whats going on and thinking like a team, not a solo player.

Always sound confident and in control. Even if you are 4-12 down odds are they took a lot of damage so you still have a chance. By now you know more of their force composition as well. THIS is the critical moment. A silly statement like. "Ok we didn't focus fire very well so everyone gather and we move again together". Its critical because you'll always get someone that DC's because they think the match is lost and not worth fighting for. The veritable weak link. You need to try to persuade them to stay.

Don't sound like a 13 year old with PMT on Voip it just means everyone gets their back up and ignores you at worst, at best its distracting and takes the focus away from the enemy.

Most importantly ... CALL TARGETS. Hard to emphasise that any more but if targets are getting burned down you're doing your job and so are most people. The faster they die the less damage they do and thats demoralising for them, while it builds your own sides confidence. They see immediate results to following your commands.

Ultimately your main problem is actually probably all the idiots that have disabled Voip... those are the people that almost certainly just cost you the match as they're putting their opinions before the win. If you have problems with Voip and are pugging ... DON'T play CW!

We have a few like that in unit that I'm working on them steadily but ALWAYS have several people passing information from Voip or to Voip users so its not much of a problem for us.

[Karl Marlow]

Make it so the assault cowering behind a rock will 5take less damage 8f he gets his ads in gear a.d confronts the enemy. Worked for the Russians in real wars.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Dirty Low-down Douchy Motivational Trick #624

Insult everyone, shoot them with a small laser 150kph Jenner and make them chase you through the gate.

[Mandrakerootes]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 10 March 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:

Dirty Low-down Douchy Motivational Trick #624

Insult everyone, shoot them with a small laser 150kph Jenner and make them chase you through the gate.

That would require me to drop a small laser jenner though, why not my Ac20 Centurion?

[Leeroy Mechkins]

LOL

[Maxwell Albritten]

Some PUGs just refuse to listen. I've had an instance where I was like "On the count of 3 everyone push, ok?" And got a confirmation from everyone. Literally, all 11 other players said ok. Then we pushed and still half didn't move.

And then, of course, you have douche speak up on ingame VOIP after ignoring you and say "Well, what you really should do with pugs is (opposite of whatever)". You try to get the PUGs to go for objectives and the douchebag says "No, pugs only know how to kill. Tell them to ignore objectives!" You try to get PUGs to go for kills the douchebag says "No, pugs only know objectives." I mean, the PUGs didn't listen the first time and all the douchebag is doing by offering "suggestions" at this point is confusing them more.

It's actually the douchebag that pisses me off more than PUGs not listening.



Anyways, some pugs will always do the opposite of what everyone else is doing. I don't know why and there is little you can do to help them.

Edited by Maxwell Albritten, 10 March 2015 - 01:13 PM.

[Chef Kerensky]

Motivate your team by playing the John Cena titantron theme on VOIP while you type out plans in teamchat. Everybody loves a triumphant charging theme.

[MingTheMerciless]

Keeping it simple is probably the best suggestion. Most maps and attack modes are quite known: deviating from them with PUGs is very hard.

Target calling is probably the most important and effective thing one can do in a PUG drop - focusing your fire and taking down the enemy; one mech at a time should not be outside the realms of possibility. Most mech pilots CAN duck out and hide from damage on their own, but focusing fire needs some direction.

Also agreed that the ingame voice is great BUT i know many have turned it off. So you could be giving orders to no-one but yourself.

Good hunting!

W

[Mandrakerootes]

I turned it off recently because I get random freezes and video lag with it enabled. It just started 2 days ago, all the time before it was fine. But I rather play the game and have my processor not get ***** by Teamspeak than be able to communicate to a wall.

[TB Freelancer]

pug queue, group queue its all the same. Sometimes you get stuck with a critical mass of guys playing "you go first" who hang back half a mile, watch you get ROFLSTOMPED, then get hunted down and start bitching about crap teams....

...in pug matches I just don't care. It is what it is, I just go with it and do what I can. But when I see a full lance+ of organized stupidity in the group queue, it wears a little thin.

Edited by TB Freelancer, 11 March 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

A bit of a necro-bump, but I guess that doesn't matter so much in this forum.

Haven't played so much lately (been on a real life is feudal kick with my group), but all suggestions were constructive and reasonable. I'm actually a student of Psychology looking to eventually go into therapy/counseling, so small tricks of the psyche aren't anything new to me.