74 replies to this topic

[Malckovich]

I do feel that Tag needs to be buffed up a bit in terms of time to acquire lock. Getting that tag requires being in a direct fire situation. This would be a good step toward getting direct fire use of LRMs improved.

[Hit the Deck]

Imagine if you could laser guide the missiles with TAG:

You are behind the hill and know that the enemies are on the other side but you can't get a lock (no shared data, ECM, etc.). Because you can laser guide the missiles, you just fire them up to the sky, climb the hill, take a peek, and then TAG an enemy to instruct the missiles to hit the spot (enemy) you're TAGging.

Much skill. Very profit. Wow.

[Johnny Z]

+1 for tag buff

[Gyrok]

Kjudoon, on 30 March 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

Dead weight because that weapon "doesn't work".

You realize the realize the reason the LRM doesn't work is strictly because of whine poisoning nering them? It is the inverse of what was a garbage mech, the tbolt being quirked into a superpower. It wasn't on its design and geometry merits. It was because someone massaged the rules to make them that way.

Because it should not work when it is countered.

Consider this:

In modern warfare, current missile systems have tons of counters, target acquisition takes a matter of minutes when a target is already painted with a laser. When a target is not painted, you require satellite GPS positioning for an intelligent weapon, or you can dumb fire a weapon using direct LOS to hit the target.

This is essentially the same systems we have in place in current warfare.

Nobody likes missile spam, so there are tons of weapon systems designed specifically to counter it and keep it in check. All the counters IRL are OP too, btw. Indirect missiles have a much lower chance of success than something direct fire.

Edited by Gyrok, 30 March 2015 - 08:48 AM.

[JaxRiot]

Making TAG an ista lock could work I guess. It would maybe encourage more people to get closer to the action possibly.

But since we are on the subject of Target locking ECMs, the description says that ECM doubles the time it takes to require a target lock. To me it seems much longer. Can anyone confirm, or has anyone tested it?

[Novawrecker]

Bush Hopper, on 30 March 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

Yeah, more laser spam please. But seriously, this game needs more diversity when it comes to the usage of weapon systems. MGs, Flamers, AC/10s and to a lesser extend LRMs etc are hardly used compared to laser vomit. Usually the battlefield looks like a disco. Don't get me wrong, though. I don't like the current implementation of LRMs nor the sickness that is ECM

It's ironically funny that you mention diversity and leave out Gauss Rifles, PPCs, AC 5s/20s. Lasers aren't the only effective direct fire weapons out there. But what do I know?

Kilo 40, on 30 March 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

"Instead of using missiles, just use something that's better than LRMs..."

Fixed that for you

[Mad Strike]

Bush Hopper, on 30 March 2015 - 12:23 AM, said:

Haven't the "pros" of the forum agreed that missiles are weak and useless and only nubs die or are hindered by them?

Theres no "pros" on this game bud , wrong topic. More like "people that loves to exploit".

ShinVector, on 30 March 2015 - 12:50 AM, said:

Better listen to the man.. Davions.. They use LRMs alot !!

Really ? I thought you guys where crying with your red brothers about something called "unfair light rush" for the first 3 months we've been kicking your arses before the Faction Rewards changes , the Clan alliance accusations and ghost drops that never happened.

Not forgeting that your ONLY competitive unit actually only knows how to ghost drop at our backs in Euro timezone.

P.D: We never lost a capital

Edited by strikebrch, 30 March 2015 - 11:29 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Novawrecker, on 30 March 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

It's ironically funny that you mention diversity and leave out Gauss Rifles, PPCs, AC 5s/20s. Lasers aren't the only effective direct fire weapons out there. But what do I know?


Fixed that for you

With that paragraph I actually meant that there are enough weapon systems out there which are the red-haired stepchildren. Sorry, for being unclear. A shame for example that the halmark of a Firestarter, the flamer, isn't used at all on them.About the systems you mentioned, though, I also think about them that COMPARED to lasers I do not see that many of the weapon systems you mentioned - at least not outside a whale or KC boating one or the other or a Hunchie G or a Panther now and then with PPC(s) (laser Panthers seem to be more common, though, too) etc. But honestly, when did you last see an AC/10. I honestly cannot remember anymore, A Centurion-A runs usually 3xSRM 6 etc

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Gyrok, on 30 March 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

Because it should not work when it is countered.

Consider this:

In modern warfare, current missile systems have tons of counters, target acquisition takes a matter of minutes when a target is already painted with a laser. When a target is not painted, you require satellite GPS positioning for an intelligent weapon, or you can dumb fire a weapon using direct LOS to hit the target.

This is essentially the same systems we have in place in current warfare.

Nobody likes missile spam, so there are tons of weapon systems designed specifically to counter it and keep it in check. All the counters IRL are OP too, btw. Indirect missiles have a much lower chance of success than something direct fire.

actually gyrok when a target is painted with a laser IRL an apache helicopter can fire its missles immediately. the time from tag to the time to target lock is a matter of milliseconds because the speed of light is stupid fast and computers operate at such high frequencies.

TAG ingame should=instant lock regardless of ecm. it makes no sense that an ecm with a finite range can affect a targeting system outside its range when that targeting system is using lasers.

[Mad Strike]

Mellifluer, on 30 March 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

actually gyrok when a target is painted with a laser IRL an apache helicopter can fire its missles immediately. the time from tag to the time to target lock is a matter of milliseconds because the speed of light is stupid fast and computers operate at such high frequencies.

TAG ingame should=instant lock regardless of ecm. it makes no sense that an ecm with a finite range can affect a targeting system outside its range when that targeting system is using lasers.

Considering battletech is a mix of primitive , contenporary and future technologies i will not be amazed if theres something that doesn't allow lasers to have that instant lock effect.

[Gyrok]

Mellifluer, on 30 March 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

actually gyrok when a target is painted with a laser IRL an apache helicopter can fire its missles immediately. the time from tag to the time to target lock is a matter of milliseconds because the speed of light is stupid fast and computers operate at such high frequencies.

TAG ingame should=instant lock regardless of ecm. it makes no sense that an ecm with a finite range can affect a targeting system outside its range when that targeting system is using lasers.

I was talking about large scale missile systems, such as cruise missiles that have bordering on intercontinental range, I am sure the systems on weapon systems that have much lower range are probably a bit different...

[Kjudoon]

Mellifluer, on 30 March 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

actually gyrok when a target is painted with a laser IRL an apache helicopter can fire its missles immediately. the time from tag to the time to target lock is a matter of milliseconds because the speed of light is stupid fast and computers operate at such high frequencies.

TAG ingame should=instant lock regardless of ecm. it makes no sense that an ecm with a finite range can affect a targeting system outside its range when that targeting system is using lasers.

Not to mention a missile cannot be outrun by a car at highway speeds.

[ShinVector]

strikebrch, on 30 March 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

Theres no "pros" on this game bud , wrong topic. More like "people that loves to exploit".


Really ? I thought you guys where crying with your red brothers about something called "unfair light rush" for the first 3 months we've been kicking your arses before the Faction Rewards changes , the Clan alliance accusations and ghost drops that never happened.

Not forgeting that your ONLY competitive unit actually only knows how to ghost drop at our backs in Euro timezone.

P.D: We never lost a capital

Awwww.. He didn't deny the LRM part..

Your just jealous that our loyalist forces are actually loyalist.

[Mad Strike]

ShinVector, on 30 March 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

Awwww.. He didn't deny the LRM part..

Your just jealous that our loyalist forces are actually loyalist.

Don't need to deny false accusations and my unit count is still the same.

Good try and has i've said before 3 CAPITAL PLANETS. The only reason why you guys took back your territories was a 3 faction push against us.....XD XD you needed 3 factions just to get back your planets lol i don't thing any Liao or Kurita is in a good position after that one....specially Liao because at least Kurita will allways have Clans as an excuse but Liao?!......theres just not a good explanation about how you guys let yourselves get stomped so fast on the first 2 months of CW.

Edited by strikebrch, 30 March 2015 - 08:08 PM.

[ShinVector]

strikebrch, on 30 March 2015 - 06:41 PM, said:

Don't need to deny false accusations and my unit count is still the same.

Good try and has i've said before 3 CAPITAL PLANETS. The ony reason you guys took back your territorys was a 3 faction push against us.....XD XD you needed 3 factions just to get back your planets lol i don't thing any Liao or Kurita is in a good position after that one....specially Liao because at least Kurita will allways have Clans as an excuse but Liao?!......theres just not a good explanation about how you guys let yourselves get stomped so fast on the first 2 months of CW.

3 Faction push you say... Now really ? Wonder what the Mariks have to say about that...

Our excuse ? We were against Clan Davion and their Sun Zerg swarm which at the time was heavily propped up by mega mega mercs and the ridiculous NA favouring 24 hour cease fire clock flooding both our attack and defence queues at the same time with hugely superior numbers....

Don Don Don.....

We waited and waited and finally things blew in our favour...
Faction Drop !
3 Timezone Cease Fire !
Very committed Liao loyalist especially in the Euro TZ regroup and started the counter-attack..
And here we are recouped every planet we lost + alot more...

Find better excuses Fedrat !

Edited by ShinVector, 30 March 2015 - 07:30 PM.

[Burktross]

strikebrch, on 30 March 2015 - 06:41 PM, said:

Don't need to deny false accusations and myth unit count is still the same.

Good try and has i've said before 3 CAPITAL PLANETS. The ony reason you guys took back your territorys was a 3 faction push against us.....XD XD you needed 3 factions just to get back your planets lol i don't thing any Liao or Kurita is in a good position after that one....specially Liao because at least Kurita will allways have Clans as an excuse but Liao?!......theres just not a good explanation about how you guys let yourselves get stomped so fast on the first 2 months of CW.

My excuse is that I don't speak Russian :c

[Mad Strike]

ShinVector, on 30 March 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

3 Faction push you say... Now really ? Wonder what the Mariks have to say about that...

Our excuse ? We were against Clan Davion and their Sun Zerg swarm which at the time was heavily propped up by mega mega mercs and the ridiculous NA favouring 24 hour cease fire clock flooding both our attack and defence queues at the same time with hugely superior numbers....

Don Don Don.....

We waited and waited and finally things blew in our favour...
Faction Drop !
3 Timezone Cease Fire !
Very committed Liao loyalist especially in the Euro TZ regroup and started the counter-attack..
And here we are recouped every planet we lost + alot more...

Find better excuses Fedrat !

Counter attack ....Counter attack....You call counter attack to ghost drops when the other factions are not even droping on specific timezones?! XD XD GET OUT OF HERE.

Me , i'll get some chicken this conversation is over XD XD

And what i should say about marik? They're the most Civilized of the 3

Best part is that I WAS IN LIAO when the first 2 months of CW happened , so yeah i know what i'm talking

Burktross, on 30 March 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

My excuse is that I don't speak Russian :c

That's a funny way to say "WE GOT RECKT" lol

Edited by strikebrch, 30 March 2015 - 08:04 PM.

[ShinVector]

strikebrch, on 30 March 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

Best part is that I WAS IN LIAO when the first 2 months of CW happened , so yeah i know what i'm talking

Let's just try to call the turn around a 'coincidence' shall we...

To peeps in this thread:
This has gone off topic long enough.. No more poking the Sun Zerg by me.

[Tesunie]

The problem I find with ECM is the double penalties it does for LRMs. It preforms two hindrances to LRMs:
- It prevents (for the most part) locks, which prevents missile locks as well.
- It slows down what missile locks one does happen to get.

If it was one or the other it would be fairly decent. With the two effects stacking, I find several problems with it. TAG doesn't overly help sometimes...

[Chagatay]

TAG should be:

1. Hold 1s on target, I now has the tone and lock.
2. Ignores ECM completely
3. Is infrared and INVISIBLE to normal vision (seeable only in thermal)

Hooray, I have saved the day (even non-LRM people would use it for the sweet c-bill shower)