22 replies to this topic

[Night Thastus]

Hello!

Simple post. I've decided my next 'mech will be a Hunchback 4SP.
I've been building a collection (17 so far) of quirky, weird mechs. I felt like a hunchback next, so I thought I'd make one.
I'm just debating between going in an XL or not.

Pros of XL:
Much faster (89 KPH VS 71 KPH)
Slightly cooler (36% cooling vs 33%)

Pros of Regular:
More durable
One more laser (the MPL become a regular ML) takes advantage of an extra 10% heat gen.
Significantly cheaper (I mean really, 11.3 mill for a ******* medium? That's highway robbery!)

Here are the two builds:
Regular: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f01cab281e0ae3b
XL: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ad63cbfdf64892

Your thoughts?
(Note that both have max armor + use all tonage + slots perfectly, which I love in a mech)

[Moonwalk]

for close range hunch STD musthave but it's won't be fast enough to be exellent mech.
for std. drop 1 heatsink and take 225 st so you will have same amount of heatsinks + few kmh or drop ton of ammo to get 235. but it's still slow. Drop smt else to make it faster. You need speed on srm medium.

[Michal R]

Hunchback - only STD. Don't even think of XL.
Hunchback i brawler, brawler don't use XL.

Edited by Michal R, 30 March 2015 - 12:29 AM.

[Mercer Skye]

Well, in your favor, you're using the 'sway'-back, the hunchie without a hunch. They tend to carry that XL a whole lot better than their brethren.

Moonwalk covered it though, if you're going to run SRMs, you want speed, so that XL build you linked would be fine, the STD build though, I'd suggest dropping 2 heatsinks, swapping the SRM6's for LRM10's and use that build in a support/cleanup role, taking advantage of friendly anti-ecm to drop four tons of LRM hate in a relatively fast, mobile missile cruiser with that 5ML punch after the chambers go dry. And with the STD engine, you'll be keeping 'em burning for a while.

Also, as an aside, that heat efficiency on the 'main' part of Smurfy's is the general efficiency if you keep all weapons firing constantly, without any efficiencies or modules.

The weaponlab will give you a better idea of not only how efficient your build actually is, but can give you firing procedures for your mech; Like firing a pair of those MLs the whole fight, and weaving in another pair every other shot, and the head laser in every third shot, with a rotation like that, you're looking at ~1minute of sustained fighting at 2.5dps before shutting down, with a max dps of 4.18 if you go full ham on the lasers but overheat inside 25s.

The best kept secret on Smurfy's, right thur.

[Averen]

This is btw the metamechs version:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fcd379010fee31e

I bought that mech as my 4th hunchback (got the 1st one as a founder), and i arrived at a similar solution after a while. An XL is just suicide, and the mech needs a lot more speed than a 4G with his up to 365m AC20. There isn't really a point in going for a small STD engine and a lot of DHS, since the low speed makes you to vulnerable to hang close to enemies.

It's best played as a fast striker, relying on high speed and spamming a lot of missiles and lasers for a short time and then running away. You can fire the SRMs for while, even with only 12DHS, but hunchies are pretty fragile mechs at the best times (and despite the great ST quirks).

Edited by Averen, 30 March 2015 - 12:43 AM.

[Xione87]

I've had a look at your build, personally I would drop 3 external DHS, a ton of ammo and half a ton of leg armor. This will net you a 250STD engine and therefore 10 'true' DHS which are worth 2 SHS instead of just 1.4 like the external ones. You will go from 24.4 SHS equivalent to 24.2 but gain about 10 Km/h.
You could also drop the head laser instead of a ton of ammo if you find 3 tons is not enough.

As others have said, I don't recommend running an XL in this particular hunchback (I only run one in my Grid Iron actually).

Enjoy playing

[Telmasa]

With my 4SP, I went STD 275, engine, 4ML, and two regular SRM6s, with ferro armor on top of the usual double heatsink & endo - with a couple heat sinks and 4 tons of ammo (with the last ton split in half tons), the crits worked out perfect.

However, I found out that I could drop the Ferro, change to an XL275, upgrade to Artemis SRM6packs, add an MPL to the head & put 2 more heatsinks - which helps alot with the 4SP, since that cooldown makes heat a serious problem, and didn't have to drop any ammo.

Seems that without the "hunch", on the 4SP I get hit in the CT most - so running the XL doesn't feel risky. It was very rarely that with the first build, I found myself thankful for having the STD engine.

Honestly though, it works fine either way.

[Soulscour]

Why do you need a xl to go fast? Just have less heatsinks and learn to manage your heat better. HBK-4SP

[mogs01gt]

With the amount of damage being brought to matches, you have to either play mediums as a fast striker or a hill humper. Its pointless to not maximize your damage output for a bit more survivability when any medium mech is an alpha away from dying.

The difference, how I see it, do more damage before you die or last longer and do the same amount of damage. So whats the point of lasting longer? You cant truly zombie in a hunchie. Plus STD running hunchies run hot.

I'd run a 4sp like this but it still too damn hot.
HBK-4SP

Edited by mogs01gt, 31 March 2015 - 06:39 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Only in the 4J, and even then just adding endo steel and DHS to the stock build is not bad. An XL just allows for more ammo, BAP, artemis and may be AMS.

Even if you run out of missiles there are all the lasers to run with, so you will be brawling. Six ML's or 5 ML's with TAG is nothing to laugh at expecially for a mech that was lobbing LRMs and now is a mostly fresh brawler.

[T0rmented]

Please run the XL, i like easy kills

[Darwins Dog]

I run mine with STD 250, 4x ML, 2x SRM 6 (no artemis), and 3(?) tons of ammo. The XL engine makes it too fragile, and you can still be dangerous with just half of your weapons. Hunchback is one of the best candidates for STD engines because they have good hit boxes (not great, but good).

mogs01gt, on 31 March 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

The difference, how I see it, do more damage before you die or last longer and do the same amount of damage. So whats the point of lasting longer? You cant truly zombie in a hunchie. Plus STD running hunchies run hot.

The point of lasting longer is tanking more damage. Every extra hit they put into you is 1 less they are putting into your friends. That means more time for them to safely put fire into that target. PGI may not track or reward it, but the amount of damage you soak can be just as important as the amount you deal.

Also, the hunchback is one of the only mechs that can zombie. Not many mechs have CT/Head lasers.

[Soulscour]

mogs01gt, on 31 March 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

The difference, how I see it, do more damage before you die or last longer and do the same amount of damage. So whats the point of lasting longer? You cant truly zombie in a hunchie. Plus STD running hunchies run hot.

When you lose a torso you still have 3 medium lasers and a SRM6 and can soak up and dish out more damage. That's pretty good zombie to me.

[mogs01gt]

Darwins Dog, on 31 March 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

The point of lasting longer is tanking more damage. Every extra hit they put into you is 1 less they are putting into your friends. That means more time for them to safely put fire into that target. PGI may not track or reward it, but the amount of damage you soak can be just as important as the amount you deal.Also, the hunchback is one of the only mechs that can zombie. Not many mechs have CT/Head lasers.

Nobody is scared of a mech running with 1 ML or MLP in their head.

Soulscour, on 31 March 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

When you lose a torso you still have 3 medium lasers and a SRM6 and can soak up and dish out more damage. That's pretty good zombie to me.

and then you are still stuck in a medium mech with a 28pt alpha.

I dont see much benefit in running a hot build like this HBK-4SP because you can survive a bit longer with one ST gone. You're still one alpha away from being useless. The issue is building a medium mech in a way that forces you into sub 400m range. Why do it with a 4sp with unreliable missles when Centurions or the 4g exists?

The 4j missle build makes way more sense. I had the 4sp, even during the pop tart meta it was useless. Now with high alphas on Clan mechs, running a hot missle/ML boat is suicide.

Edited by mogs01gt, 31 March 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

One of the pros of having an XL engine is that you're able to carry heavier weapon loadouts compared to using a Standard engine without sacrificing speed. You also don't have to worry about using CASE because if a Side Torso is taken out, you're gone.

The con is that you have one more thing to worry about in the field because you make yourself that much easier to take out whether it be through a surprise attack from the rear or coming under direct fire and trying to get away.

Hell.. I didn't even use XL engines in my Locust/Spider/Commando/Firestarter builds 'cause of how difficult it was for me to stay alive without getting oneshot by a dual gauss. 'course my piloting skills aren't up to par but that's beside the point.

If you're comfortable with using XL engines, that's on you but personally I don't recommend using them unless you're just that good in the field.

[Darwins Dog]

mogs01gt, on 31 March 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Nobody is scared of a mech running with 1 ML or MLP in their head.

No one ever said they were scary, but neither is a centurion with 2xML in the CT (well I guess it's twice as scary), but that's what a zombie is. A mech that can lose both torsos and still have something left to shoot with.

mogs01gt, on 31 March 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

and then you are still stuck in a medium mech with a 28pt alpha.

Better than being in a dead mech, if you ask me. More chances to get assists/kills/protected medium bonuses. Unless your goal is to quit and jump into another match right away. In that case I guess it's better to die and move on...

mogs01gt, on 31 March 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

The issue is building a medium mech in a way that forces you into sub 400m range. Why do it with a 4sp with unreliable missles when Centurions or the 4g exists?

That's a different subject entirely. OP was asking about an XL for the hunchback.

RazorbeastFXK3, on 31 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

You also don't have to worry about using CASE because if a Side Torso is taken out, you're gone.

That's not really much of a plus... "Don't worry about safety equipment, you'll die before you need it." Also, ammo explosions are so rare in this game that CASE it worthless on any mech. Something like a 20% chance that internals take a crit, then whatever chance to actually crit the ammo bin, then it needs to take 10 damage before it gets destroyed, then there's only a 10% chance of an explosion.

That's just my opinion/experience; take it or leave it OP. Mediums are fragile as it is, and the HBK-4SP is best suited as a brawler/skirmisher. Fighting in close is not a good place to pack an XL engine. I do very well with my STD 250 hunchie. Just stick with a big beefy heavy/assault. Let them take the hits while you shoot their target. When you start getting the attention, you still have the speed to fall back and reposition. Don't forget your quirks either, 20% less heat from your MLs.

[mogs01gt]

Darwins Dog, on 31 March 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

No one ever said they were scary, but neither is a centurion with 2xML in the CT (well I guess it's twice as scary), but that's what a zombie is. A mech that can lose both torsos and still have something left to shoot with.

Yes that is debatable

Quote

Better than being in a dead mech, if you ask me. More chances to get assists/kills/protected medium bonuses. Unless your goal is to quit and jump into another match right away. In that case I guess it's better to die and move on...

Im focusing more on DPS and heat efficiency. The XL will allow you to put more damage down range.

[Burktross]

heresy

[sycocys]

If you are going into CW with it don't use an XL, its torso armor just isn't beefy enough to take those laser vomit shots.

If you are going standard drops, I run XL250, 4 ML, 4 srm4s and it's a monster.

[mogs01gt]

sycocys, on 31 March 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

If you are going into CW with it don't use an XL, its torso armor just isn't beefy enough to take those laser vomit shots.
If you are going standard drops, I run XL250, 4 ML, 4 srm4s and it's a monster.

since when do players not "laser vomit" in normal matches?