With the release of the Resistance Mechs, its is an opportunity for a robust discussion on the next wave of IS mechs as several others have attempted.
Following the close vote between Black Knight and Grasshopper pre-Resistance, and with Russ asking for suggestions for an IS Heavy with ECM, it is timely to have a more robust discussion on exactly which IS Heavy mech should be put into "Production".
Principal Considerations
Other than standards guidelines of 1) being canon to timeline; 2) have three variants, other factors to consider are:
3) It should be in a weight class that is least represented. In order of preference, 75 Tonnes (Orion only); 60 Tonnes (Dragon, Quickdraw); 70 Tonnes (Cataphract, Grasshopper); 65 Tonnes (Jagermech, Catapult, Thunderbolt)
4) It should have ECM
5) It should allow / attempt for a more varied playstyle then the standard boats and currently available mechs.
Summary (TL:DR)
The Black Knight is a Favourite, but the Archer is a much more versatile option, and the Exterminator provides a new dimesion to the game. Other options like Bandersnatch and Wardog will need PGI to undertake some creative licensing to be viable based on current game rules. If we can advance the timeline to 3053, mechs like Penetrator become viable options.
Mechs Comparisons
While not exhaustive, certain heavy mechs (Black Knight; Flashman; War Dog; Bandersnatch; Penetrator; Archer; Exterminator; Lancelot) have been selected for this comparison in this thread. More are appreciated from the community. A final vote to poll community insights would be helpful when a decision on which are the final contenders.
Black Knight (75 Tonnes)
Spoiler
Variants: Multiple; However, all are energy-centred, and have almost the exact same loadout , except for variations between ER and non ER, Pulse and non-pulse. (See BLR-6-KNT, 7-KNT, 7-KNT-L, 12-KNT)
ECM: The ECM version only is the KNT-2Y which is only available in the Dark Age Era.
Playstyle: Possibly the only true Energy-boat. Quirk wise may be limited as almost all variants have the exact same quantity of each type of weapon.
Overall: Straddling between the Grasshopper and Awesome, and with those two being energy boats as well, may lead to stagnant gameplay. If you remember, the Grasshopper was selected as it at least had one LRM slot and had JJ. The ECM variant is also not within current timeline. However, there is little argument that the iconic name of the mech, its following from previous MW games, and the fact that art is probably done, makes this a contender.
Flashman (75 Tonnes)
Spoiler
Variants: 8K has 9E; 7K has 8E; Other variants are beyond current timeline
ECM: No variant has ECM
Playstyle: Similar to Black Knight, with possibly similar quirks, due to it being another pure energy boat.
Overall: Has the potential to be chicken walker based on artwork. Shape of the Flashman may add to the Rotund family of mechs (i.e. Urbie, Imp), allowing for an added fun element
Wardog (75 Tonnes)
Spoiler
Variants: Only 1 (2B/3M/6E); Requires PGI to be creative with the other two, or this is a non-starter.
ECM: Only available during Dark Age period
Playstyle. The standard loadout is actually very attractive based on the number of options,
allowing for much creativity. Need more resolution on the other variants
Bandersnatch (75 Tonnes)
Spoiler
Variants: Only 1 (2B/3M/6E); Requires PGI to be creative with the other two, or this is a non-starter.
ECM: Only available during Dark Age period
Playstyle. The standard loadout is actually very attractive based on the number of options, allowing for much creativity. Need more resolution on the other variants
Penetrator (75 Tonnes)
Spoiler
Variants: 4D/6T has 8E; 4F has 2M/4E; 6M has 6E; All have JJs
ECM: 6S Variant (Era unknown)
Playstyle: Energy Boat similar to Black Knight / Flashman; JJs makes it more manoeuvrable; The option for twin Missiles on the 4F adds to the variety of play styles besides pure energy boat. The ability to alleviate heat through SRM 6s is certainly welcomed. As the native 2 x LRM 10 goes, the AWS-8R is probably better at 5 tonnes more.
Overall: The availability of the ECM variant makes this model viable. Chicken Walker Legs adds to its uniqueness. Its design as a counter to clan mechs makes it interesting lore wise. (Assumption is that the timeline can be advanced to 3053)
Archer (70 Tonnes)
Spoiler
Variants: Multiple; The 2R is a 2M/4E; 2K/5R is a 2M/2E; 2S is a 4M/4E; 2W is a 4M/2E; 4M is a 2M/4E with Artemis/Endo/DHS; 5S is a 5M/4E with XL/Narc.
ECM: The 7L is an advanced mech not within current timeline. However, ECM can be applied to replicate the "phantom" skill of Morgan Kell as part of a "Hero" Archer. The requisite P2W accusations are a side effect.
Playstyle: The many variants offer at least three playstyles of LRM boat / SRM brawler / Energy boat.
Overall: The 70 Tonnes have some room to grow with only the Cataphract (Ballistic), Grasshopper (Energy) currently. The Archer is not only iconic, but also has a lot of play styles to offer which are not currently available to the 70 Ton class. Pity the ECM, but the Hero option is interesting
Variants: The 4D is a 1M/5E; 4DB is a 6E; 4A is a 1B/1M/5E. "Caine" version is a 6E with MASC
ECM: No native ECM. However, it is possible to replace the default Null Signature System and Chameleon Shield implementation with ECM.
Playstyle: While still an energy boat, the possibility of at least one variant with Ballistics increases options (Gauss Rifle!!). Most interesting though is the standard 390XL engine. Making this the Fastest Heavy in the Game. Being a non-omni means that is will not suffer the same issues as the Exterminator or Man-O-War.
Overall: The 65 Ton group is spoilt for choice. Jager (Ballistics), Thunderbolt (Mix), Catapult (Missiles/Energy). The Exterminator's large engine cap allows for more interesting playstyles, but not by much if the ECM is not included.
Lancelot (60 Tonnes)
Spoiler
Variants: LNC25-01 has 4E; LNC25-01X has 4E with JJ; LNC25-03 has 2B/2E; LNC25-05 has 3B/3E
ECM: None
Playstyle: An energy boat, which should be more specialised (better quirks) than the Quickdraw which is a jack-of-all trades.
Overall: Can be considered for variety, but its weapons loadout is not unlike that of the Dragon and Quickdraw, difficult to identify a niche role that it fulfills.
Power creep exists for a reason in games. Quirking mechs isnt the answer to balance.
What does what I said have anything to do with ingame stats? People like to buy mechs for the looks and nostalgia reasons to you know, PGI would be stupid not to capitalize on that.
LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 03 April 2015 - 06:54 PM
Nathan Foxbane, on 03 April 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:
You forgot the Flashman.
Yep, Flashman is arguably more superior than the Black Knight due to high mounted arm hardpoints. Flashman can be a great CW mech-- as a 10 ton heavier energy version of Jagermech. I personally like to see the War Dog though.
Also, Archer is an Unseen so no-no. Harmony Gold will be prepping their lawyers.
Virgil Greyson, on 03 April 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:
What does what I said have anything to do with ingame stats? People like to buy mechs for the looks and nostalgia reasons to you know, PGI would be stupid not to capitalize on that.
F2P games are based around power creep to sustain a player base. Creating in game content/mechs that are inferior is simply pointless. PGI cant sustain themselves making crap mechs over and over.
F2P games are based around power creep to sustain a player base. Creating in game content/mechs that are inferior is simply pointless. PGI cant sustain themselves making crap mechs over and over.
Besides being called the Penetrator, which I feel is sufficient reason to introduce it by itself, it's a 75 tonner, which the IS is lacking, and it has ECM and jump jets. It's also only a couple years forward in the timeline, not like 3060 or Jihad tech.
I will be very shocked if the next heavy is not a Black Knight. ECM? Maybe. Not unheard of to give a mech in this game ECM when it didn't have it officially.
Quirkwise, it will probably get slightly better laser quirks than the Grasshopper did, because it doesn't have JJs. They focused on cooldown and heat gen for the grasshopper, I'm guessing it will be range and heat gen for the Black Knight, maybe some duration too.
Besides being called the Penetrator, which I feel is sufficient reason to introduce it by itself, it's a 75 tonner, which the IS is lacking, and it has ECM and jump jets. It's also only a couple years forward in the timeline, not like 3060 or Jihad tech.
Orion is a 75 ton IS heavy, but it's not exactly sprightly.
I do like that 'Mech. It is a chicken-walker, if an odd one, and thus gets a pass. Having all energy-focused variants is a tad boring, but dat alpha strike...
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