101 replies to this topic

[Xoco]

TLDR:
Mechs grow stronger with time, which improves your performance. But why do we have to start out in the worst possible state, especially when you are already lacking in actual experience piloting the mech?
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So I've been playing for a good bit, and I think I'm learning the ropes. I'm now at least doing 200 dmg (still pretty low), but it's improving pretty quick.

The thing is, I'm still just as bad at the game as a few months back mostly. I just happened to now be carrying bigger guns, going faster, as well as being tougher.



See, when I start out the game, I decided to go with the Locust (mainly because of its appearance)--I'm still playing them, and they are still my favorite mechs so far. The thing is, when I started, I was rocking the standard engine, and 2xsmall lasers. I was really struggling to do any damage (my alpha is a whopping 6 dmg!) at point blank range, in an armorless coffin. Needless to say, I usually don't make it past 3 minutes mark each game.

Then I made enough to start kitting out my Locust--new engine here, a few medium lasers there--now I'm going 50% faster than before, and doing 8 times the damage per salvo. Even when I was pretty much doing the same thing I did before, my score improved tremendously (which allows me to buy a few more stuff).

I'm also getting more EXP, which lets me get some mastery going, which makes my mech even stronger.

My question then, is why does the game penalize me when I'm starting out? When you buy a new mech, you're playing in a gimp bot. Why? For the sake of having in-game progress? Shouldn't new players be given a handicap, rather than having the worst possible mech in existence? Why not at least start everyone on equal footing, instead of making sure late-comers will always be at disadvantage?

[FupDup]

Many games, particularly F2P games, use arbitrary systems of "progression" to create a sensation of moving up in the world and to try to "stretch out" a given amount of content over a longer period of time. For F2P in particular, they monetize it by letting you spend real $$$ to reduce or skip the grind. It's become a widespread gaming norm and I don't think it's going away anytime soon, sadly.

I miss older pay-to-play games where you just start with everything and get to dork around however you want. I actually liked Hawken's closed alpha until they started smothering it with "progression" stuff, then I didn't really touch it again afterwards (besides trying a few minutes of open beta and post-release, but got bored real fast).

Edited by FupDup, 25 April 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[sneeking]

Mechs grow stronger with time as do pilots

[Mister Blastman]

Because most game designers today had rocks thrown at them when they were children. Or so it seems.

Fup has the right answer.

Back when I was a kid, we didn't need artificial progression. We made it ourselves!

[sneeking]

I didn't throw rocks I threw bolt bombs

I got suspended from school for it though

[sneeking]

Bolt bombs were like playground party poppers and if you knew how to amp them up a few notches they could take out a knee and leave another child limping off the quadrangle

Edited by sneeking, 25 April 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Interesting thing is its not the mech mainly that is hurting you. What is hurting you is your skill/knowledge related to Mechwarrior. Here is why I know this. Countless times friends of mine that are good pilots do good in new mechs they get. Yes it improves a bit as they get them elited but not as much as you would think. They are still pulling 300-800 damage in a brand new mech they started leveling. So you can do well with new mechs or even stock mechs but its harder. And the number one thing always holding back new players is basic game skills.

By the way they do need much much better tutorials and reference and training for new people.

For me well I just use GXP so do not end up doing much leveling.

[Xoco]

@FUP: Meh, stupid F2P.

Why can't we have trials like we used to? You know, demo (can only use certain mechs), then you can buy the game for the full thing. I get that they do have trial mechs there, but again, they fall into the "not very good" category. But I wish that once you decide to jump into the game, you should at least be given equal footing as everyone else.

XX Sulla XX, on 25 April 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

Interesting thing is its not the mech mainly that is hurting you. What is hurting you is your skill/knowledge related to Mechwarrior. Here is why I know this. Countless times friends of mine that are good pilots do good in new mechs they get. Yes it improves a bit as they get them elited but not as much as you would think. They are still pulling 300-800 damage in a brand new mech they started leveling. So you can do well with new mechs or even stock mechs but its harder. And the number one thing always holding back new players is basic game skills.

By the way they do need much much better tutorials and reference and training for new people.

For me well I just use GXP so do not end up doing much leveling.

I feel that if you understand the intricacy of the system, then you can do better. But there is a hard cap. Clan mechs are more expensive, thus posing a higher barrier of entry. Their weapons are objectively better than IS mech (there are exceptions, bust in most cases, clan weapons are simply better). No matter what skill level you are at, but those who have spent more time/money simply has a lot of advantage.

Edited by Xoco, 25 April 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[RockmachinE]

Because they have a ****** business model which is not only susceptible to power creep, but depends on it.

The n$/month model is solid, but unfortunately people went in a different direction so we get **** like this. It works, but its extremely difficult to pull off properly.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 25 April 2015 - 08:50 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

sneeking, on 25 April 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

I didn't throw rocks I threw bolt bombs

I got suspended from school for it though

Oh wow. You were this guy?!

[Alex Morgaine]

You also have a locust, they're pretty much hardmode and/or feast or famine from what I've read. If you do good in them you're probably a nightmare to everyone else.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

I feel that if you understand the intricacy of the system, then you can do better. But there is a hard cap. Clan mechs are more expensive, thus posing a higher barrier of entry. Their weapons are objectively better than IS mech (there are exceptions, bust in most cases, clan weapons are simply better). No matter what skill level you are at, but those who have spent more time/money simply has a lot of advantage.

If you save your early money from the game you can buy your first clan Hellbringer, TW or Stormcrow pretty early on. If you are a good pilot you can have lots of great games in these even before they are elited. That will help you make more money faster and get the other two of the variants.

One things that hurts new players is they do not know what mechs to buy. Because of this they waste money on bad mechs. Add that to having limited skill in the game and it makes it hard for them. But if they have help and advice on both its much easier.

[Ghogiel]

New players are content for old players to farm huehue

[michaelius]

Most games have protection systems in place to give positive first impression of game to new players by mostly making them to play against other new people.
MWO doesn't and we have newbies thrown straight into pool full of sharks.

[oldradagast]

Powercreep is inevitable in games like this, but the horrible new player experience does NOT have to exist.

The lack of useful in-game tutorial is appalling - users shouldn't have to wander around the internet to find basic info - and they haven't even bothered to put all the correct info in the game in a lot of places. Does the Gauss Rifle still not mention the charge-up mechanic, for example... oh, but just look it up on-line when that weapon appears to be broken to a new player... and the list just keeps going.

Then, you top it off with what has been lovingly labeled the "Paulconomy," a system where grinding feels futile and your individual effort means far less than if the 11 other people on your team are good or are potatoes, and you have a recipe for new users to quit. Heck, I kept going mostly because real-life friend played the game more often back then and I liked the game's potential... but that was 2 years ago when the game was freshly in Open Beta. Now, there's just no excuse for it.

Minimally viable product is the rule these days - that, and selling games one piece at a time.

[Escef]

It doesn't matter what game you play, newer players are always at a disadvantage. Hell, I had to learn PvP FPS play from the ground up for MWO. I'd rarely touched FPSs before MWO, and PvP FPS I'd logged less than an hour into in my entire life. In case you couldn't guess, when I started playing MWO I got my hindquarters handed to me on a regular basis.

Best advice I can give is after you die, spectate. A lot. Learn what works for other players, both tactically and their builds. Go to http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab and try to reverse engineer their builds, knowing if certain builds use Inner Sphere XL engines will help you (losing a side torso with an Inner Sphere XL is also a loss of a critical amount of engine shielding, which is death). Go into your settings and tweak them for performance and ease of use (I re-did my key bindings for personal preference, it helps a lot).

[Choppah]

Is there any good reason why trials aren't elited? It would make them less painful to play and show the "progression gap" to make new players want to elite their mechs. Some trials will still be unmitigated disasters, but still, no real downside.

[Burktross]

Frosty Brand, on 25 April 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

You also have a locust, they're pretty much hardmode and/or feast or famine from what I've read. If you do good in them you're probably a nightmare to everyone else.

locust is honestly the easier light to play for me.
I can wreck in a 2sL 2mL PB, but get destroyed with 10 damage in the 8spl firestarter

[CptGier]

I just wish, just like when you start a new EQ2 character, you pick your race and class...basically in MWO, that would equate to us being able to pick 1 mech which we are given 3 versions for mastery, 5 million cbills to upgrade and stuff and go!

Then for 100 games, we get cadet bonus, Cadet Q, 100% refund on selling and other various things to make the NPE easier.

[Torgun]

CptGier, on 25 April 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

I just wish, just like when you start a new EQ2 character, you pick your race and class...basically in MWO, that would equate to us being able to pick 1 mech which we are given 3 versions for mastery, 5 million cbills to upgrade and stuff and go!

Then for 100 games, we get cadet bonus, Cadet Q, 100% refund on selling and other various things to make the NPE easier.

That sounds like a really good way to start up new players, too bad it's entirely against the theory of Paulconomy and thus will never ever happen.