10 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

So I came up with new builds to try and continue Mastering these.
First, I would like to say how much this Mech has been altered from its purpose. Grasshoppers are supposed to be mobile and speedy Mechs good for striking and some other fast action. These are anything but. Instead, they come across as tanky, somewhat fast Mechs, just tall all Energy versions of everything else in their class.

First some qualities all three share since there are few differences between them.

1 - Height. I would have thought being tall makes them easy to hit. Still might but it is hard to tell since some people are skilled enough to shoot Light legs with precision using Ballistics in this game. Attempts at role will effect this. Height also gives the Mech a different feeling when moving compared to some shorter Heavies much like a Griffin compared to a Hunchback if both are set to move at the same speed, a Hopper strides rather than runs even though moving at a good clip.
Height also affects weapon location. Recently someone said the Grasshopper has low slung weapons that is true when looking only at the Hopper. However, if you compare it in Mechlab to other Mechs, even those low slung weapons are high up. The low Torso mounts are at the same level as a JagerMechs arm mounts for Ballistics. It is just the fact the Grasshopper has to expose more of itself that makes these mounts considered bad though this also makes the high mounts on the 5H and 5N even better since they have to do less climbing than a Jager to ridge peek.

2 - Maneuvering. We all know how well a Mech does this is based on initial twist rate combined with engine. Stock, it has the same settigns as other Heavies except the 60 tonners. Given the Mech's lore mention of mobility and speed, you would expect better twisting, maneuvering and movement. However, here there are some problems.
First, in order to get speed, a Hopper must take XL while still having a decent weapon loadout. This will be a weakness as people become knowledgeable about that and go for side torsos, not seen a lot now but there have not been a lot of Hoppers around. There is a false belief it is XL friendly but a Hopper is just as wide as a JagerMech and some players know to go for STs on those so it will not be hard to shoot STs out and kill Hoppers. Only the 5N has ST buffs about the same value as Jagers.
Second, the engine cap on 2 is the same as most Cataphracts. Having driven both Thunderbolts and Grasshoppers, I can state a Thunderbolt with a 300 is more maneuverable than a 5J Hopper with a 350. Only the 5N has a Torso Turn buff side to side compared to Awesomes that have better twist buffs in all torso movement. End result, Hoppers do not twist that well, indeed sometimes when tanking damage I have actually had to turn the Mech where others can just torso twist.
All this ends up with a Mech that can get speed at greater risk of death and not more mobile than other Mechs as would be expected.

3 - Hardpoints. Very few differences mainly relying on Energy weapons. The Head missile port is usually ignored and the added over stock points were 2-3 Energy thus limiting the weapon choices on all variants. This is not a big problem for some other Mechs like the Hunchback-4P because other Hunchback variants had different weapon mounts and locations making each variant unique and interesting. When all your variants are mainly Energy dependent, this limits your loadouts and weapon choices a lot. Even worse, a couple of builds seem right out not worth trying.
Brawling, using anything with a max range of 540 or less. Brawling is just out, I tried on a 5J to take advantage of the higher cap for speed and more JJs that underperform on some if not all Mechs in addition to being useless beyond 4. If I wnet in early in a match, I got focused on and died. The other option is to sit out the early match counting on your other 11 allies to gain an advantage without you. Handicapping the team is not easy. I would even go so far as to say I would take the Brawling Awesome-8R over a Brawling Hopper. There were times in the 8R I sat out the early match depending on map such as Tourmaline, some spots do not have the cover to protect the barn door Awesome. At least that 8R still has the option to shoot LLs in an early game though. I do not consider a Hopper with anything bigger than MPLs, MLs, SLs, SPLs, maybe a head mounted SRM to be a Brawler more like a Hybrid.
Boating. The only Boat I found useful was the 4LL version I had to run on all three until I unlocked Speed Tweak. 4LL allowed a decent mid range game with heat management. ERLL, PPC and ERPPC would all be hotter, that might be for some but not everyone. I do not really see Boating as a big thing outside LLs.
So buildwise there are major limits, I only found Hybrids, 4LLs and the Pocket Awesome (see 5N below) useful.

4 - Tanking. This is partly tied to Maneuvering. Being a Heavy at 70 tons, you may expect this Mech to do some serious tanking like T-Bolts and others. It has some potential, there are a few buffs but they are like some other Mech buffs in strength so do not make a Tanking Hopper much different from other Heavies. Most of the buffing went to legs that I rarely got shot in, a portion went to arms but I do not lose these a lot, 2 got a CT buff while the 5N got Side Torso ones despite both the 5H and 5N having a number of non-arm weapon mounts. Add in the less than expected Maneuvering/Twisting that makes Tanking tougher the mandatory XL compered to STD Bolts, a Hopper has limits on its Tanking that deny it the ability to do as well as other Heavies.

So I only have 3 builds so far that have some degree of success.

5H LL Boat - Same one I used before, this time with all LLs in the torsos so 2 of them are pushed into high mounts. This can also give up a DHS for 2SLs in to torsos and 2LLs move to the arms. I admit to finding it strange the one Hopper with the most high shoulder mounts got a Brawling quirk.

5J Hybrid - I made this attempting to take advantage of the sole ERLL quirk. I used to run 3LL & 3ML that I did not consider a Hybrid, I only did that to avoid running 4LL mainly in the amrs that I might lose. Sniping with 2ERLL does not build up much heat and 4MPL in close quarters is not bad, heat only becomes a problem if I feel the need to use all the weapons in Brawling.

5N Pocket Awesome - Previously I tried dual PPCs and some other weapons, nothing felt right. After removing yet another 4LL version, I came up with the thought of using my Awesome-8Q weapon loadout. I call it the Pocket Awesome after how some warships in navies and other games had Pocket Ships, a slightly smaller ship with some capabilities of a larger vessel. While not having some of the 8Q's buffs (Velocity, Twist, Laser Duration), the Heat Generation quirk comes close, it moves faster by about 14 kph after Speed Tweak and gives and advantage depending on what mode you play.
Public Queue - frees up the Assault slot for something else.
CW - gives you 10 more tons for another Mech.
This does not make the Awesome-8Q useless (so far), I see it as an alternative way of playing an 8Q with different advantages & disadvantages. Seems to have a similar effect in a fight, people usually move when hit with chain fired PPCs and if they notice your loadout, they come for you maybe more so than the 5H or 5J.

All Hoppers use 2 Cool Shots and TIG.

TLDR
The Grasshopper is a rough ride. Ever since all the buyers got their Resistance 1 Mechs, the Hopper is the one I saw the least of dwindling down to a rare sighting today. I only see more than one when I am driving it myself while I see 2-3 of other chassis more often. I think a number of Resistance buyers, after seeing it in their MechBays, said, "Whelp, that's gonna sit in mothballs, I'm not even gonna Basic it!" unless it has seen a lot of play on organized teams. I have seen a comment say if a Mech doesn't get a number of quirks, it is because someone thought it good. Whoever decided that missed on this one.
I have only seen one successful Hopper in one match who got over 600 damage but did not have the time to see his loadout.

[juxstapo]

have got one lucky 1k dmg match in 'em, but overall I have to agree with your dissertation in most respects.

...my basic'er was three larges. So far that build has been my most successful, 2x LrgPulse in arms, 1 PPC in shoulder, fill the rest with smalls, which are just a panic button and a way to get the Particle Cannon up high.

Serious movement quirks (and a slight shrinking) might place it in it's proper brawler category.

Edited by juxstapo, 25 May 2015 - 12:17 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Seems a lot of YouTubers are running STD with MLs, MPLs. Gonna have to leave some comments for them.

[Valkyrie73]

I bought the res 1 pack last week and just finished mastering my zeus so now I'm moving onto the grasshopper. I will have to try some of these builds out

Cheers

[SnagaDance]

OP, what about LPL's? I find these to do quite well on the Hoppers (though I've got 1 of my 3 also fitted with 4LL) with back-up ML or MPL.

Can't disagree with anything you said about the movement, size and XL-vulnerability, seems spot on to me.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

pros:
-excellent torsotwist
-hardpoints

negatives:
-enginecap
-hardpoint locations
-quirks

[Wildstreak]

SnagaDance, on 26 May 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

OP, what about LPL's? I find these to do quite well on the Hoppers (though I've got 1 of my 3 also fitted with 4LL) with back-up ML or MPL.

Can't disagree with anything you said about the movement, size and XL-vulnerability, seems spot on to me.

I cannot fit those.
I mean I could put them high on the 5H but then have to change the low LLs to some short range stuff.
Not enough hardpoints on the 5J, the 5N kinda works with PPCs, without those it has 5% worse Heat Gen quirk.

Cookiemonter669, on 26 May 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

pros:
-excellent torsotwist
-hardpoints

negatives:
-enginecap
-hardpoint locations
-quirks

Have to disagree on the torso twist, it is not that good unless you boost speed to about 90kph. a STD 300 Thunderbolt gets better twist usually.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Wildstreak, on 26 May 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Have to disagree on the torso twist, it is not that good unless you boost speed to about 90kph. a STD 300 Thunderbolt gets better twist usually.

i meant the torso twist range,its hunchback-tier

[Big Tin Man]

Wow, completely disagree with all of this. The two grasshoppers I run frequently are my two best mechs. Here's the big secret to making them work: use your teammates as cover and shoot over the top of them with a little jump. Break your weapon groups into the high shoulder & head points and the low hand points

5N: Medium pulse boat. Think super thunderwub. I don't run this one often, because I like the other two BETTER.
5J: XL 350, 19 DHS, 2 LPL, 4 ML, 4JJ's, endo. This wrecks face
5H: XL 325, 13 DHS, 4 LPL in the shoulders, 4JJ's, endo. Alternatively if you have the funds XL340, 13 DHS, 4LPL in the shoulders, 4JJ's, endo + ferro. Break the high LPL's into left and right groups, and only alpha in emergency situations, or when you need to press the KILL button. Expose very little of your mech, poptart like crazy. Shoot directly over your shorter allies to keep yourself safe.

Cooldown modules are a necessity, especially on the 5J. It runs cool with 19 DHS.

[Wildstreak]

Cookiemonter669, on 26 May 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

i meant the torso twist range,its hunchback-tier

Yeah, that's fine but turning to make use of it, the Hunchie does it better getting a better turn speed.

@BigTinMan,
If the 5N is great using the same loadout as a TDR-5SS, what's the point of it?
My 5J is just slightly different giving me some ranged fight through using 2 ERLL or even LL for cooler running but really not much different.
My 5H also gets more range and I used it and the others that way initially, I could just hang back early.

Not much to these and they are rather stale, kinda a preview of Resistance 2.

[Malus Darkwood]

I think the grasshopper is kinda overlooked. It's a great mech, one of my best mechs overall i would dare to say:

http://mwo-steiner.f...opper-t106.html

Yes, they are hot as hell, so you have to split your weapons for different ranges, with an occasional alpha now and then.

To the OP, i had very often games with more then 500 or 600 dmg. Even with my least favorite (5J). I also used them in my CW-dropdeck (all 3) with great results.

Just play them a bit, play them as you like them, don't worry to much about meta and bla. Just have fun