Tell us your balancing problems PGI so we can help.
If you made a sticky thread for each problem you have it's easy for you to keep track.
A few examples.
One thread for suggestions on how to replace Ghost Heat if you want that.
Another sticky thread for how to balance AC2's/ flamer/ MG on your own terms.
If you say these weapons have to be balanced without touching certain stats then all suggestions will have to follow these terms.
...and so onwards a sticky thread for each of the problems you want us to help with.
You'll have loads of suggestions in these sticky threads lined up all nice and tidy instead of the chaos you currently have.
Keep in mind that if a suggestion is liked/voted on by many players PGI can still just ignore it if they think it will inbalance the game in some way.
As a matter of fact they should just browse till they find an idea they like and use it as they please.
You probably have a bunch of solutions to your current problems with MWO buried right here in the Feature Suggestions part of the forum, but you never saw it because of the chaos.
With these sticky threads implemented this should happen far less often.
It wouldn't really focus useful feed back it would just bundle up every ones opinion into single topics, and everyone has something to say and everyone feels they are right. I feel the problem is the forums themselves are too toxic to ever be really useful.
Now that i think about it....maybe they could even make a seperate part of the forum just for these sticky threads and keep this part of the forum as it is.
This way even if the list of stickies get long they won't bury player topics.
It wouldn't really focus useful feed back it would just bundle up every ones opinion into single topics, and everyone has something to say and everyone feels they are right. I feel the problem is the forums themselves are too toxic to ever be really useful.
That depends since that's also the purview of moderators and setting up rules for such avenues of communication.
For example, maybe the Developer Outreach area could have a special sub-section utilized for this type of feedback, where the devs and moderators have one place to read and maintain regularly, over going through several threads in various other forum sections. And users could need to be logged in to view the area and possibly allow privileges to post there, since that forum area would be intended for the devs to brainstorm and share ideas and problems with the community, if they choose to, and receive feedback on their ideas outside of Public Tests and so on.
And when we've had communication threads like the one with Karl Berg's thread, communication felt rather successful and was not toxic so it is very possible as long as it is something that the devs can do, barring any constraints that PGI needs to stick to.
I'd say no, it's a terrible idea. If you invite the whole playerbase to find solutions to problems, you open a whole can of worms. It becomes a mess, good ideas get congested and lost, bad ideas get loudly championed, and a mix of everything in between.
Besides, last time PGI did this (the trial mech builds) we haven't heard back from them for months. They need to prove to us that they can handle the amount of feedback we give them (it's a lot to sift through.)
The game will develop (very slowly) along the lines they already have in mind with no input from us and it will either stand or it will fall. Either way do not expect them to ask for help.
Examples in point, how many hundreds of posts have been ignored in the PTR for mech lab and UI changes?
Have a look in the Comstar Focus sub forum. The last time they even pretended to canvas our opinions on mechanics was nearly a year ago.
I love this game to bits but I am afraid that we are just along for the ride.
I'd say no, it's a terrible idea. If you invite the whole playerbase to find solutions to problems, you open a whole can of worms. It becomes a mess, good ideas get congested and lost, bad ideas get loudly championed, and a mix of everything in between.
Besides, last time PGI did this (the trial mech builds) we haven't heard back from them for months. They need to prove to us that they can handle the amount of feedback we give them (it's a lot to sift through.)
Let me just say this. PGI presents the problems and if they do not like an idea they just ignore it even if it gets 10000000 likes/votes from the players.
It's just to gather player ideas for problems PGI acknowledges they could use some help solving.
Not to mention cleaning up the mess in the Feature Suggestions part of the forum because right now really good ideas get buried all the time.
22 total votes over 4 days. Do you see why the voice of 22 people is not the voice to follow unless those 22 happen to be the developers.
To think the masses will be any happier with "your" suggestions, doing things "your" way. Fricking Burger King generation wants everything their way.
If i understand you correctly your saying that all suggestions by any player on the forums or only my suggestions are completly useless no matter what they are.
Correct me if i understood wrongly.
It's just about getting some sticky threads so the developers can flip through the suggestions by the community easily without having to dig through dozens of pages for what they want to find.
Once more i say you can't force the developers to accept a solution through likes/voting on a solution in these sticky threads.
The developers themselves choose which solutions they like and do as they please.
Edit: Come to think of it....if all ideas thought up by players are completly useless...Why do we have a Feature Suggestion section in the forums?
Propaganda?
Naaaaaw....let's not get paranoid.
PGI is definitivly scheming something but i doubt they are trying to brainwash us to join some weird gamercult religion.
That was what first struck my mind...could i be onto something?
I'm all for the transparency of development between PGI and the community, and this seems like a great idea.
I don't think it should be implemented though.
Not because I think PGI requesting community input is a bad idea; it's just that... well, I don't trust the community with it.
In my gut, I feel that pinning a post on the suggestion pages will eventually only help garner more anti-PGI resentment when the proposed solutions aren't implemented or even acknowledged to the satisfaction of the masses (and how could they ever be satisfied).
Because really, having a suggestion and open dialog stickied sort of creates the implication that the suggestions have to be acted upon, right? And that your idea finally has a chance to get off the ground! And that your idea, which you've put so much thought into, has to be not only acknowledged, but specifically responded to if it isn't accepted with a detailed breakdown about why it wasn't chosen over the other solutions?
Depending on how they are worded, most of the suggestions I see on the forums are phrased less as suggestions, and more as thinly veiled demands. It's the combative tone of most of these posts that has probably driven most of the devs from this forum.
Even the well thought out ideas, the ones that are phrased in such a way as to invite discussion rather than unite revolutionaries, often either end up as a soap box for others to counter-suggest their own idea (which is mostly fine, it's still discussion) or as a vehicle for the "they never listen because they haven't done all the things I ask" masses that steer threads unerringly towards K-Town, or lock.
Moreover, most ideas, no matter how fantastic, have little chance of getting off the ground if they aren't a simple modification to existing systems, rather than the complete makeover most people clamor for.
You have to be objective, and pragmatic. If you look at any given suggestion less from the point of view of their merits, and more from a time/cost of development perspective, you'll probably be guaranteed that most will never make it off the ground.
Let's face it, there is probably never going to be an alternative to ghost heat in the immediate future. There likely won't be a move to sized weapon hardpoints. There likely won't be a cone of fire implemented. Quirks are probably going to stay, and solution X to remove them probably won't be implemented. The heat scale probably isn't going to be completely overhauled.
/preachy_rant
Modifications to existing systems, however, are FAR more likely to get off the ground than complete redesigns.
I'd lovemore communication and transparency. It would be awesome if PGI acknowledged our ideas, especially on this forum, but even then i'm leery of what we would do with that kind of dialogue, especially one they initiate. We've proven time and again that there's no quicker way to start a war than to give a playerbase with such fractured ideas about their ideal MechWarrior experience the chance to show everyone their fan fiction.
PGI said:
What do you guys think about balancing X?
What would you like to see?
The Community said:
8 seconds later...
Spoiler
Tina the fearless community manager said:
53 pages of vitriol later
*shakily gets to her feet*
These are great ideas, i'll pass them along!
The Community said:
*starts stopwatch*
WHY HASN'T IT BEEN DONE YET
PGI said:
We're going to run with system X
Everyone who didn't propose system X said:
The thing is, many of the more popular suggestions have been acknowledged in the past, though either town halls of the ask us anything question thingies that the devs sometimes run.
Russ sometimes asks for feedback on twitter also. *ducks*
Perhaps instead of multiple sticikes, one thread could be created to rule them all, with a list of suggestions and the company standpoint listed with it. Remember the development roadmaps? Maybe more focus could be put on those. Maybe they could link to discussion threads. Maybe, every now and again, an enterprising young community manager could collate some of the better ideas, or better still, describe the ideas PGI are most enamoured with, to encourage further refinement.
I think we need baby steps to establish boundaries again.
Maybe an Idea of the month? Start with something small, ask for feedback, and see how we go? Maybe Tina could trial a system like this?
Edit: sweet jesus, I typed an essay. I apologize to all that read it.
Because really, having a suggestion and open dialog stickied sort of creates the implication that the suggestions have to be acted upon, right?
Russ sometimes asks for feedback on twitter also. *ducks*
Perhaps instead of multiple sticikes, one thread could be created to rule them all
Maybe an Idea of the month? Start with something small, ask for feedback, and see how we go? Maybe Tina could trial a system like this?
Edit: sweet jesus, I typed an essay. I apologize to all that read it.
It could be like i edited into the original post. PGI just select the ideas they like without saying anything at all to the player who made the suggestion.
They modify it to suit their needs.
No way i'm getting a Twitter account just to throw this suggestion Russ's way.....Twitter is one nasty diseased bird with lot's of fleas.
One thread to rule them all would create pretty much the same situation we have right now.
The devs/ players have to dig through a lot to find what they are looking for.
It could actually be worse since they won't have the filter to help them in their search.
So in order to keep track of things they have to paste post-it notes all over their monitors to keep track of the good ideas instead.
If a thread contains only a single subject where our ideas have to follow the dev's borders it's all tidy and orderly.
If PGI says weapon X has to be rebalanced but without touching weight, damage, range, etc but we can alter everything else then we have to stick to that in our ideas.
Idea of the month? How do you think that should be done? I'm genuinly curious.
Essay...this ain't a long post at all. Trust me....it ain't that long.
It could be like i edited into the original post. PGI just select the ideas they like without saying anything at all to the player who made the suggestion.
They modify it to suit their needs.
No way i'm getting a Twitter account just to throw this suggestion Russ's way.....Twitter is one nasty diseased bird with lot's of fleas.
One thread to rule them all would create pretty much the same situation we have right now.
The devs/ players have to dig through a lot to find what they are looking for.
It could actually be worse since they won't have the filter to help them in their search.
So in order to keep track of things they have to paste post-it notes all over their monitors to keep track of the good ideas instead.
If a thread contains only a single subject where our ideas have to follow the dev's borders it's all tidy and orderly.
If PGI says weapon X has to be rebalanced but without touching weight, damage, range, etc but we can alter everything else then we have to stick to that in our ideas.
Idea of the month? How do you think that should be done? I'm genuinly curious.
Essay...this ain't a long post at all. Trust me....it ain't that long.
Well, all the difficult and tedious data gathering sounds like a job for a community manager
As far as the idea of the month goes, it would be along the lines of the spirit of your post. One item would be addressed -something small, like the font or colours in the mechlab, the quirks for one specific mech, something easily modified. The community discusses it, feedback is passed back, and PGI announces what they would like to do.
It doesn't have to be addressed straight away, it simply gets added to a list of solutions, to be added in future patches in the 'nice to have' pile.
Basically a modification of something already existing. Big issues like ECM, or the heat scale, or convergence etc would be left the hell alone.
It all needs a driver though. Perhaps you should PM Tina.
Well, all the difficult and tedious data gathering sounds like a job for a community manager
As far as the idea of the month goes, it would be along the lines of the spirit of your post. One item would be addressed -something small, like the font or colours in the mechlab, the quirks for one specific mech, something easily modified. The community discusses it, feedback is passed back, and PGI announces what they would like to do.
It doesn't have to be addressed straight away, it simply gets added to a list of solutions, to be added in future patches in the 'nice to have' pile.
Basically a modification of something already existing. Big issues like ECM, or the heat scale, or convergence etc would be left the hell alone.
It all needs a driver though. Perhaps you should PM Tina.
This makes sense in all kinds of ways.
PMing Tina? She probably receives enough PMs as it is.
She seems to have a very bubbly personality....but what if she gets annoyed and crushes my skull in response?
Naaaw. She probably allready knows about this thread....yup.
I'm not scared...no i ain't. Just think she has enough on her plate. Yeah...that's my excuse.
Here's what I want to see, instead... I want PGI, through Tina, to reach out to us with question web pages developed for us. I want questions, no means of putting in feedback, for the things PGI wants answers to. This would give them an opportunity to construct directed questions for the way they are trying to take the game, and then allow for follow-up questions, based on the input from prior questions. Let's get some directed input, and then let forum watchers argue it out among themselves on other parts of these forums. PGI gets it's questions answered, we have some input about the direction the game is going, and then we can go talk about it in areas that PGI are ignoring, anyway.
Tina, in the meantime, would be posting batteries of questions regularly through the highly infrequent MWO Newsletter, and she would have to put up with less crap from us, as well.
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