67 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

YueFei, on 11 July 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

The weapon's designers should take feedback from the soldiers.

I doubt anybody is disputing that.

It's the thought process behind the OP that is highly in dispute.

[Poisoner]

Mystere, on 11 July 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

I doubt anybody is disputing that.

It's the thought process behind the OP that is highly in dispute.

A guy in my unit and I just had a random though after watching a direwolf chain fire UAC5s at the ground in the group queue. The thought is that Russ must play with people like said direwolf and think "well the direwolf doesn't need to be nerfed because it sucks".

UAC5 direwolf is overplayed anyways, I prefer the 6 LBX bone saw.

[Xetelian]

YueFei, on 11 July 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

The weapon's designers should take feedback from the soldiers.

Yes, and carrying it around and firing every sunday would make the CEO of Machine Guns 'R' Us further innovate the design. Was it too heavy to carry all day? Was the recoil on the verge of painful? If you know little of what you're selling you're not going to last long if someone competent jumped in.

[YueFei]

Mystere, on 11 July 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

I doubt anybody is disputing that.

It's the thought process behind the OP that is highly in dispute.

Look at it this way, it helps to have an expert user to give you feedback when you're implementing something.

If I'm on a team designing an airplane, there better be someone on the team who knows how to fly airplanes really really good that we're all listening to.

Say I'm designing a 5th generation fighter jet while working at Lockheed Martin. We got Joe, Tom, Harry, and Richard on the team. Richard is a pilot... with experience flying crop dusters. We wanna sell our plane to the United States Air Force. But when we provide simulation models and prototypes and the Air Force pilots fly these things and note all kinds of problems, we don't listen to them. We just listen to Richard, who is bar none the best frakking crop duster pilot this universe has ever seen. Then the Air Force pilots start wondering if we have anyone in our team who is a top pilot in flying combat jets, and we tell those dumb fighter jocks that you don't have to be a Top Gun to know how to design an airplane. Richard is our man, and he knows WTF he is doing.

We end up designing a plane with awesome ability to fly at low speed at low altitude with great stability, and promptly get laughed at by everybody as we lose the contract with the Air Force.

Edited by YueFei, 11 July 2015 - 11:53 PM.

[Mystere]

YueFei, on 11 July 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

Look at it this way, it helps to have an expert user to give you feedback when you're implementing something.

Again, no one is disputing that. What is in dispute is requiring the CEO to know all there is about game design.

Does Virginia Rometty have to know the intricacies of 7nm chip construction.

Edited by Mystere, 11 July 2015 - 11:59 PM.

[Xetelian]

Mystere, on 11 July 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

Again, no one is disputing that. What is in dispute is requiring the CEO to know all there is about game design.

Does Virginia Rometty have to know the intricacies of 7nm chip construction.

He may not have to know the ins and outs of every single part of the process but he should understand most of it.

I'm not talking about having him write code, just take every sunday and put in 2 hours of MWO time. He should do this on an account that doesn't have everything unlocked or he'll miss out on how high or low the income is.

If he can make changes he needs to be completely clear on what is changing.

[YueFei]

Mystere, on 11 July 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

Again, no one is disputing that. What is in dispute is requiring the CEO to know all there is about game design.

Does Virginia Rometty have to know the intricacies of 7nm chip construction.

Problem is I don't think anyone at PGI plays at that level, and I'm not sure that they listen to any of the guys that do, either.

We still have flamers in the state they are in, for example.

If I worked at PGI, I could come up with some ideas on improving flamers, but you know I'd want some top notch players testing those changes on a public test server and giving me feedback and ideas.

(edit)

One idea would be to make flamers a stacking "debuff" of sorts, up to a certain max +dH/dT on the target. You could then apply it and forget it. The +dH/dT will gradually subside back to 0 unless re-exposed to flaming.

Thus 1 guy with flamers could potentially end up adding lots of +dH/dT to several enemies simultaneously, without having to face-stare at enemies 100% of the time.

At the same time, the nature of the "debuff" means you don't profit by having your entire team run flamers, since there's a maximum cap on the +dH/dT.


Or maybe make it so flamers don't add heat to a target, they just slash down his heat capacity temporarily. That makes it impossible to perma-shutdown a target, and you don't need convoluted mechanics with exponential heat build-up from the shooter of the flamer.


Or whatever. I mean, I just brainfarted that stuff in a couple minutes. Get some top players together, have them brainstorm up some stuff for 20 minutes, and then set some trial values to the concept and implement and test to see how it goes.

Edited by YueFei, 12 July 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[MrZakalwe]

Kiiyor, on 11 July 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

Why? So we can use it to point out a lack of qualification in making balance decisions?

I'd put more faith in the match data and metrics they have.

These are the same devs that nerfed AC2s.

I doubt they are using metrics - the balance changes we have seen have the feel of eyeballing it when you don't play the game much.

[Satan n stuff]

Adiuvo, on 11 July 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Russ is the CEO. He shouldn't really have enough time to play the game to reach high elo.

Members of the balance team, however, probably should. One of them at the very least. That or they need to take feedback specifically from top players.

Take feedback specifically from a group of players who are by definition not indicative of the rest of the playerbase, right...

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 11 July 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

I have dropped with plenty of PGI staff. None of them were noteworthy. Sure, they can get a kill or two and do around 200 damage, but that's about it. Do they have any tryharder at all?

Bishop Steiner, on 11 July 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

I've dropped with pretty much every forum tryhard. With the exception a few with tags like EMP or LORDs, none were noteworthy.


So what does that tell you?

El Bandito, on 11 July 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

It tells me that my point is over your head.

Are you guys really trying to Epeen with the guys who have to spend their time Making the game?

[Satan n stuff]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

Are you guys really trying to Epeen with the guys who have to spend their time Making the game?

It appears that way. Of course neither of them are exactly noteworthy either which just makes this whole argument that much more ridiculous.

[Vlad Striker]

Xetelian, on 11 July 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

If you can't understand WHY the IFR is so BAD and you drop "does it have a CT Energy point yet?" while 2 of them already came with that and that was like 3-4 town halls ago and the IFR is just as bad as ever even with a CT energy point.

Wrong. IFR excellent mech and I have much kill with it.

[RavensScar]

Seriously, if you think you can "fix" this game - do it. There's a massive "We're Hiring" link at the bottom of this page. ;-)

[Joseph Mallan]

Satan n stuff, on 12 July 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

It appears that way. Of course neither of them are exactly noteworthy either which just makes this whole argument that much more ridiculous.

Well both ate better than this old man... and for that matter who the heck are you?

[Satan n stuff]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

Well both ate better than this old man... and for that matter who the heck are you?

I... I don't know, I forgot.

[meteorol]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 July 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

Yeah, Ive dropped against Lords, SA, MS, SWOL, CWI, CWDG, 228, and all those clan tags and im sure all of them have better stats then me and are better then me at the game......elo is a joke....there secretly is no elo or MM factors, its just...24 players, and go!

Seriously, some of those units have countless terrible players. Literally countless of really really bad players.
There are really not many units with a unit tag that guarantees players are way above average, EMP for example.
As soon as a unit starts taking a lot members outside of their comp team the unit tag stops being a indicator of skill.

[Hit the Deck]

Unless they are playing group vs group (e.g., 12 vs 12), is it fair if we assume anything about these comp players? I don't think so. Let them have their fun playing.

[Bishop Steiner]

Satan n stuff, on 12 July 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

It appears that way. Of course neither of them are exactly noteworthy either which just makes this whole argument that much more ridiculous.

what's your name again?
(btw, to me, the lack of noteworthiness (unless one counts post count, then all hail Joe Mallon!), sorta IS the point I am making)

Hit the Deck, on 12 July 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

Unless they are playing group vs group (e.g., 12 vs 12), is it fair if we assume anything about these comp players? I don't think so. Let them have their fun playing.

shush you!

[East Indy]

Three pages and nobody bothered to ask the OP what his brilliant design insights actually are?

[Bishop Steiner]

East Indy, on 12 July 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

Three pages and nobody bothered to ask the OP what his brilliant design insights actually are?

judging by the quality of the OP, I doubt anyone really cares?