33 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

We already get penalized having bad players on our team, it's called a loss. We already have FF to deal with from players who can't aim or be bothered to care. We already have a fairly low TTK due to current game mechanics and an alpha-heavy meta.

PLEASE, for the love of all things holy, stop penalizing us even more for careless or bad players with the ridiculous collision damage.

When the ECM changes come down, players will be more encouraged than ever for deathballing, yet even now, everyone spends half the match running into and blocking each other.

From lights to assaults, it's ridiculous to spend a match taking nearly as much damage from friendlies not understanding how to drive their mechs as the actual OPFOR.

You can be the best mech pilot in the world, and there's still nothing you can do to prevent a teammate from running into you, legging you, removing half your CT armor, etc.

If this is some test in the vein of seeing how knockdowns will go, then view it as a sign that you should never, ever include them in this game again. Teams will be knocking themselves down left and right, just like they're banging up each other's mechs right now.

It's enough to deal with lag, FPS, poor map design, invisible walls, and players failing to do their part, stop punishing us for other player's mistakes. This does not promote team play, teaching noobs, etc, all it does is make people angry, and angry players aren't going to want to keep playing or spend money on a product that angers them.

There will always be noobs, always be bad players, and people who simply do not care. STOP making everyone else suffer for their mistakes, even more than we already did before the collision increase...I'm begging here.

[Veev]

Kodyn, on 26 July 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

We already get penalized having bad players on our team, it's called a loss. We already have FF to deal with from players who can't aim or be bothered to care. We already have a fairly low TTK due to current game mechanics and an alpha-heavy meta.

PLEASE, for the love of all things holy, stop penalizing us even more for careless or bad players with the ridiculous collision damage.

When the ECM changes come down, players will be more encouraged than ever for deathballing, yet even now, everyone spends half the match running into and blocking each other.

From lights to assaults, it's ridiculous to spend a match taking nearly as much damage from friendlies not understanding how to drive their mechs as the actual OPFOR.

You can be the best mech pilot in the world, and there's still nothing you can do to prevent a teammate from running into you, legging you, removing half your CT armor, etc.

If this is some test in the vein of seeing how knockdowns will go, then view it as a sign that you should never, ever include them in this game again. Teams will be knocking themselves down left and right, just like they're banging up each other's mechs right now.

It's enough to deal with lag, FPS, poor map design, invisible walls, and players failing to do their part, stop punishing us for other player's mistakes. This does not promote team play, teaching noobs, etc, all it does is make people angry, and angry players aren't going to want to keep playing or spend money on a product that angers them.

There will always be noobs, always be bad players, and people who simply do not care. STOP making everyone else suffer for their mistakes, even more than we already did before the collision increase...I'm begging here.

Or people will actually learn how to pilot their pixels.

[Kodyn]

I fully knew someone would come along with a useless statement like that.

Yes, every new player is going to magically become good now, and people who don't care will suddenly care.

Thank you for proving my point that some people will always be idiots, in one form or another.


EDIT: Look at it from this perspective then, the learning curve for MWO is already high. High enough to hurt new player retention, especially after Steam release. With collisions as they are, many newer players will just assume they must suck or that the game is too hard, and quit rather than "L2P". No/few new players will hurt the whole game, because it hurts PGI's income.

So by all means, keep up the "L2P" arguments, they help everyone. I swear, I feel like some people in this game think it'll just keep running only for them, and that PGI doesn't have to make any money to provide them with the game. Who will the tryhards have left to shoot if the game's popularity tanks and there's no new player retention? Keep living in a bubble, I'm sure it's nice and cozy in there, safe from reality and facts.

Edited by Kodyn, 26 July 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[Tarogato]

I would actually be okay with the collision damage if

A: it scaled with mech tonnage
B: it wasn't applied to ONLY the legs (while presently it is capable of affecting the CT on some mechs, I'd like to see it spread more to arms and torso at an equal ratio to legs)

[ShinVector]

Tarogato, on 26 July 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

I would actually be okay with the collision damage if

A: it scaled with mech tonnage
B: it wasn't applied to ONLY the legs (while presently it is capable of affecting the CT on some mechs, I'd like to see it spread more to arms and torso at an equal ratio to legs)

Not sure able this scale stuff... Light usually getting the short end of the stick like we need it...
Look at the silly fall damage implementation which is nonsense which all existing stuck and floating bugs...

[Tarogato]

ShinVector, on 26 July 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Not sure able this scale stuff...

What I mean ... is right now a Locust can crit it's leg from 100% with just one collision. It's absurd, yet Firestarters hardly feel a thing. Firestarters feel the pain a lot more than Blackjacks to. I wish the damage applied was a % of total hitpoints instead of a flat number, which is the impression I get of how it works currently - same damage regardless of mech size.

[ShinVector]

Tarogato, on 26 July 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

What I mean ... is right now a Locust can crit it's leg from 100% with just one collision. It's absurd, yet Firestarters hardly feel a thing. Firestarters feel the pain a lot more than Blackjacks to. I wish the damage applied was a % of total hitpoints instead of a flat number, which is the impression I get of how it works currently - same damage regardless of mech size.

Really ?? But they have the least armour in the game though. I could test it out tonight... But I get a feel I face these type of issue less because I had made adjustments when it comes to piloting.

[Tarogato]

ShinVector, on 26 July 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

... I get a feel I face these type of issue less because I had made adjustments when it comes to piloting.

A certain amount of collisions is pretty much unavoidable though. In solo queue I can usually get away with it because my Locust playstyle is generally to be as far away from friendlies as possible. In group queue however, I tend to stick more with the team. In one match, "Okay, let's press the saddle" "okay, pressing saddle" .... next thing I know, I was caught up in a tangle and left with this:



Later that match I bumped a friendly, it legged me, and then he bumped back into me and it TK'd me. Happened twice that night, actually. At a certain point you're paying more attention trying to avoid friendlies than you are trying to shoot the enemy, and that's pretty irritating.

Edited by Tarogato, 26 July 2015 - 08:17 PM.

[Sereglach]

Ok, seeing your screenshot and looking at what you're talking about, I wonder if it's actually a collision bug with Locusts. I haven't been playing those recently, but I've been playing a fair bit with my Firestarters and Cheetahs, and I haven't gotten anywhere near that amount of leg damage from collisions.

Also, those two chassis don't have any armor quirks to the legs, and the Cheetah only has structure quirks to the legs. On the other hand, Locusts have pretty significant armor and structure quirks to their legs (50% armor bonus and 16 structure). Therefore, if collision damage is a flat number, then the Cheetahs should be feeling it almost as quickly as the Locusts. The 50% boost to a Locust leg armor makes it 24 armor max, while a Cheetah has 28 with no quirks . . . so pretty close numbers, there.

It sounds like there's some other culprit at work, here. Whether it's a fluke collision bug that's easily recreated in a Locust, or something else, I have no idea. Are your legs getting sheered off abnormally easy under weapons fire? Maybe there's a bug in the quirks that's actually reducing armor by 50% in your legs, or some other random anomaly that can occur with the wonders of computer code. On the other hand, that 16 structure quirk should be keeping your legs alive through more than what you're describing, too. It leaves me quite perplexed at what the actual culprit (read: bug) could be.

It kind of makes me want to do tests with the various lights (since I own every light chassis), but I have no idea where to even start on that, or what I'd be looking for/how to recreate it. If you've got other light mechs, maybe try giving them a go, and see if you're getting the same problems?

The reason I say this is because I primarily run lights, and I haven't had any problems even remotely like this. I'm not saying that collisions don't happen (trust me, I share many of your laments about pilots and friendly mech collisions . . . and collisions in general), because I've been caught in some major hang-ups . . . particularly when trying to maneuver through a brawl. However, my legs are not even remotely getting sheered off as quick as what you're describing, just from collisions.

[MechWarrior849305]

Let it be the same amount of % dmg to ANY mechs' legs due collisions, either it be locust or DireWhale. Guess who will whine more then
PS: I can see pack of lights, running to bump my K.Crab's legs, OMFG, run, RUN!!!

On serious note: the only one who has to suffer collision dmg is the mech, which actually bumps into someone.
So, there can be rather easy solution - the more % of speed threshold were there inbefore collision the more dmg in % dealt. Lets say, if a light stands perfectly still and DWF gets to him from behind on 100% of its 53kmph - light gets 0 dmg, while DWFs legs suffer dmg amount of 10% of full DWF's HP. This will be VERY fair If both were ramming each other on 50% of their max speed - both will get 5% collision dmg.

You can't make bad players to become good, but you can teach them, simple as that.

Edited by DuoAngel, 27 July 2015 - 12:39 AM.

[anonymous161]

Weird I didn't think 1% would make that huge of a difference especially since it's always your legs.

I've never once even when bumped or bumping someone else cause any real damage.

I think it should be much more depending on speed and how heavy you are, and be able to knock down mechs that would be fun if I actually bothered playing this much anymore. Without premium time even a good match gets you next to nothing worthwhile.

[PhoenixFire55]

Eh ... huge damage from collisions with other mechs is fine and actually is what we need. However it has to be proportional to the relative speed of mechs and it also has to apply to mech vs terrain and mech vs buildings/objects collisions. Right now it is simply dumb when two mechs walk into each other at ~25kph and that takes off 4-5% off their legs while a light mech bumping head on into a wall at 150kph doesn't take a scratch. Apart from that it (as said above) has to depend on mechs relative masses etc. etc.

It is a good thing, but as always PGI implements stuff in fubar mode without actually thinking about what they do and how that'll play out. #NotBetaAnymore

[Kodyn]

I'm all for realistic mechanics, but not in an online FPS with as many new/terrible players as MWO has.

People will not simply "learn to pilot better", most will simply give up, or just keep ramming each other like morons regardless, and the one getting rammed has to suffer.

There's good reason that most PUG matches consist of 12 people who do not trust each other and assume that every ally is about to do something stupid...they usually are...that's a terrible state for an online game to be in.

Some sacrifices have to be made as far as the realism in the game in order to keep it playable for the masses, or overall game health suffers. The reality is, this is an FPS, plain and simple, just an FPS with giant customizeable robots. A more mechanically realistic mech sim would be fun, but probably not financially viable for an online F2P game. That's what it all comes down to.

[WANTED]

Yes it's a problem. I have seen more issues with leg damage lately from friendlies that is more extreme than before the patch. Here I am trying to provide ECM in my light and then someone collides with me and my leg is getting almost critted

[Lily from animove]

Veev, on 26 July 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Or people will actually learn how to pilot their pixels.

lern something, vs let someone else fix it.
errrm, its 2015 99% choose someone else to fix it.

but thats the entire issue of online games today. cater those people or have low numbers, low success and low money available.

and suddenly you have to choose:

a good game vs a good product.

WANTED, on 27 July 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

Yes it's a problem. I have seen more issues with leg damage lately from friendlies that is more extreme than before the patch. Here I am trying to provide ECM in my light and then someone collides with me and my leg is getting almost critted

when you are the light emch, and you want to provide ecm, then you are mostlikely the faster and more agile mech. by this you should be the one trying to prevent the collisions.

It is very annoying when soem lights jump in front of you instant stopping. Backup doesn't means crawling up their back. it means staying around them able to jump into battle with them but not blocking them. because mostly he assaults and IS heavies are not nimble enough.

Edited by Lily from animove, 27 July 2015 - 04:54 AM.

[DeRazer]

I recommend this as a learning activity.
In Solo queue, collisions with Buildings/Objects only. Proportional to speed only.

In Group queue. collisions with Mechs AND Buildings/Objects. Damage adjusted to a "sweet spot" of speed/mass - say 5 points @ 50 tonnes @ 80 kph. Lighter - take less, slower take less, heavier/faster - take more. Worried lights can just SLOW DOWN in crowds of friendlies or justifiably die when running around the enemy smacking into them @150...

In CW queue. Collisions with Mechs and Buildings/Objects with Physics damage properly based on kinetics. Lights should take care because this is what happens when small things hit big things: http://www.dashcamac...ad-crash-truck/

[mekabuser]

yeah, was probably just the locust, which is griefer mech. Also, OP post is hyperbole to the max.
its
lol silly.
l2pilot.

[Idealsuspect]

The FS can be insta-cored with a collision ... Ebon jag jumping after collision with you .. a hellbringer pushing you by behind and i don't talk about assauts ...

Well my FS' legg was insta-cored to orange with thoses reals examples and i don't talk about when you are stuck in ground while jumping or worst into a building.
Ok thoses things happend in a video game, hard to fix all bugs ( impossible in fact ) but collisions with teamate are really a pain prefer play far from them and have leggs safe.

And Ty to the topic owner for create it i was to lazzy for do it myself... xD

Edited by Idealsuspect, 28 July 2015 - 04:08 AM.

[Kodyn]

mekabuser, on 27 July 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

yeah, was probably just the locust, which is griefer mech. Also, OP post is hyperbole to the max.
its
lol silly.
l2pilot.

L2Post useful contributions, instead of the usual drivel of "Oh, this hasn't happened to me, therefore I don't care and it must be made up."

[Khan Warlock Kell]

The sooner they are back in and functioning even close to as intended the happier ill be. If i'm stupid enough to get close enough to another mech and collide with him, I deserve to take damage and if I collide with another mech hard enough and often enough I deserve to be destroyed. movement collisions are a penalty for not piloting a mech right. Fighter aircraft know what happens when they collide so they operate in a way to avoid that happening, if you don't want to take collision damage in game operate in the same way, and if someone else collides with you, deal with it. that the penalty of getting to close to other mechs.