131 replies to this topic

[Nauht]

Got back into MWO recently to check it out and realised how fun the game can be in short stints. So I got my brother back in to play. We group up and then I remember that we'll get put in the group queue. No biggie, let's see how this goes.

It's exactly the same as I remember it - you either totally roll the other team or you're the team being rolled. Out the two dozen or so games we played initially, both of us can't remember having one where it was close enough to make it an actual good game. Maybe it was a bad night, I dunno. So we decided to give MWO a real go over the weekend.

After the weekend duo'ing, both of us found our motivation to keep playing basically die.

When I logged off I critiqued what made me message my brother to come back in and I realised that I had the most fun in PUG land where the single queue is at. There the games had a pretty much even spread of rolling, being rolled but also close games where "gg" actually means exactly that instead of "ggclose".

TLDR; Duo's shouldn't be in the group queue where they can meet up with premades. You either totally destroy the other team or you're the team being destroyed by a bigger premade.

As it is, MWO will still only be a casual game where I fire it up to get my mech fix then switch off. It's certainly not a game where I'd enjoy duo'ing. We went back to Arma 3 and ED for that.

[El Bandito]

I personally believe that solo-q should stay for solo drops, but I can see why duos (especially if one of them is relatively new to the game) do not wish to drop into group queue. Perhaps duo-queuers can drop into solo-q but suffer some Elo penalty for the team?

[Mystere]

Or they can just spend money for premium time and do as they wish inside private matches.

[Kodyn]

I honestly let out an inward groan whenever I get a group queue invite by only 1-3 people. I do fairly average in solo, usually 200-800 dmg games, tend to have fun, and even enjoy losses when I do well. Get over to group in anything less than an 8 however, and I'm having a bad day.

In my experience, unless you get super lucky, without an 8+ to properly influence the team's performance and direction, group is just brutal beating to meta after brutal beating. As a 2-4 man, you're along for the ride. As a 6, you've got a 50% chance of maybe convincing the other 6 to listen to tactics, but still likely to lose to a larger group. 8-12, at least the ball's in your court, but if you didn't bring enough meta, or crazy good pilots, or preferably both, you're still highly likely to lose.

I really don't think it would be terrible if they allowed 2-mans in solo. The chance of it being abused is negligible, seeing as many, many people who play have at least one friend they like to drop with, so chances are you'd be seeing a lot of 2's all the sudden, rather than just a few going apesh!t and dominating.

It would likely also help the game's growth, as right now it's next to impossible to teach a new player anything in group queue, and in solo, it's like "Off you go, good luck, see you on the other side."

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Nauht, on 01 August 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

Got back into MWO recently to check it out and realised how fun the game can be in short stints. So I got my brother back in to play. We group up and then I remember that we'll get put in the group queue. No biggie, let's see how this goes.

It's exactly the same as I remember it - you either totally roll the other team or you're the team being rolled. Out the two dozen or so games we played initially, both of us can't remember having one where it was close enough to make it an actual good game. Maybe it was a bad night, I dunno. So we decided to give MWO a real go over the weekend.

After the weekend duo'ing, both of us found our motivation to keep playing basically die.

When I logged off I critiqued what made me message my brother to come back in and I realised that I had the most fun in PUG land where the single queue is at. There the games had a pretty much even spread of rolling, being rolled but also close games where "gg" actually means exactly that instead of "ggclose".

TLDR; Duo's shouldn't be in the group queue where they can meet up with premades. You either totally destroy the other team or you're the team being destroyed by a bigger premade.

As it is, MWO will still only be a casual game where I fire it up to get my mech fix then switch off. It's certainly not a game where I'd enjoy duo'ing. We went back to Arma 3 and ED for that.

This issue will never be resolved. The community doesnt care about duo's being dropped in the group que. PGI doesnt care that duo's are dropped in the group que. This issue has been around for years now, and because of this, alot of friends that would be playing mwo have long moved on to other games.

Terrible player retention ( AKA getting your friends to play the game ) is a huge issue for mwo, the game will get less and less support and remain a small niche pc game. But hey, at least the small community that we have gets what they want. They dont want yours or there friends to have a good experience in mwo.

Edited by Alwrath, 01 August 2015 - 06:05 PM.

[Poisoner]

I never have this problem in small groups when I play with friends or members of my unit.

[Triordinant]

Nauht, on 01 August 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

TLDR; Duo's shouldn't be in the group queue where they can meet up with premades. You either totally destroy the other team or you're the team being destroyed by a bigger premade.

In an ideal world, casual groups of 2 to 4 players would have their own queue but there aren't enough MWO players left to support 3 queues (solo, 2-4 man, 5+ man). During the first 6 months of the year CW acted as a third queue in the sense that most of the competitive premade Units spent a lot of time there. During the last few hours before planetary ownership changed it was possible for pairs of players or other small groups to play in the group queue and have a good chance of avoiding the comp teams. Now that CW has dried up, many of those comp teams are back pugstomping in the group queue.

[Throat Punch]

I drop in a group of 2 or 3 all the time, and rarely have I come across a real "12 man pre-made". And just like in solo queue you win some, you lose some.

[Mavairo]

The real solution is no single team larger than 4 man should be in the group que.
12 v 12 almost never happens anyway (there's usually 1 or 2 at most groups that size in the public ques), usually it's just 1 6 to 10 man, against a bunch of 2s, 3s, 4s, maybe a 5 here and there.

[Mycrus]

Mavairo, on 01 August 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

The real solution is no single team larger than 4 man should be in the group que.
12 v 12 almost never happens anyway (there's usually 1 or 2 at most groups that size in the public ques), usually it's just 1 6 to 10 man, against a bunch of 2s, 3s, 4s, maybe a 5 here and there.

If cw worked i would agree with you

[Mystere]

Mavairo, on 01 August 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

The real solution is no single team larger than 4 man should be in the group que.
12 v 12 almost never happens anyway (there's usually 1 or 2 at most groups that size in the public ques), usually it's just 1 6 to 10 man, against a bunch of 2s, 3s, 4s, maybe a 5 here and there.

A mass exodus of group-oriented people occurred because of that, and you want it back?

[Dirk Le Daring]

Next time you team up with your bro, choose the LFG option.

You may get better matches, maybe.

Use of VOIP is another thing well worth while.

At least it's worth a try.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Or they can just spend money for premium time and do as they wish inside private matches.

It doesn't really work when a new player needs money to properly upgrade the mech. Trying out their first new mech with SHS is asking for torture and trouble.

Alwrath, on 01 August 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

This issue will never be resolved. The community doesnt care about duo's being dropped in the group que. PGI doesnt care that duo's are dropped in the group que. This issue has been around for years now, and because of this, alot of friends that would be playing mwo have long moved on to other games.

Terrible player retention ( AKA getting your friends to play the game ) is a huge issue for mwo, the game will get less and less support and remain a small niche pc game. But hey, at least the small community that we have gets what they want. They dont want yours or there friends to have a good experience in mwo.

I actually care, but I don't have a great solution.

The bigger problem is generally the Elo averaging barrier as "technically" you need to carry your friend and most players are not capable of that. It's technically a requirement unless your friend is quick to learn... which is rarely the case.

Adding people (2-mans) to the solo queue is not the option (although I don't really advocate sync dropping in the solo queue, but that'll draw in "the mudhut").

That "I'm having fun" meme is pretty much self-explanatory to the reality that is MWO at times.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 August 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[J0anna]

Triordinant, on 01 August 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

In an ideal world, casual groups of 2 to 4 players would have their own queue but there aren't enough MWO players left to support 3 queues (solo, 2-4 man, 5+ man). During the first 6 months of the year CW acted as a third queue in the sense that most of the competitive premade Units spent a lot of time there. During the last few hours before planetary ownership changed it was possible for pairs of players or other small groups to play in the group queue and have a good chance of avoiding the comp teams. Now that CW has dried up, many of those comp teams are back pugstomping in the group queue.

PGI made a fairly large mistake when they decided that their "end game" (cw) would pay less than their "starter game" (the solo que). As for the OP, I emphasise, but putting duos in the solo que is not a solution.

[Imperius]

Another thread that should be sent to ktown.

I'm just going to start reporting these threads from now on this gets old. I drop 2-3 people all the time yup some games (your ELO Loss) not the group you just get rolled. When you have a missile boat atlas and war hawk. ELO 50-50 says carry like you never have before or lose.

It's not groups it's ELO that ruins match maker.

[Cementi]

One thing people do not realize about this game is that sometimes a "roll" is alot closer than the actual score card. Sometimes mechs are hanging on by a thread at the end of a match and it could have easily swung the other way.

Case in point I had a match today where our team was down 4 - 0. Most at that point would expect to be rolled for a loss. We came back and ended up winning 12 to 5. So some might say we went from being rolled to rolling them. In reality the match was far closer than 12 to 5, all it would have taken was a couple extra crits on their side and a couple crits we got not being crits and it could have ended up 12 to 2 for them.

Not saying all rolls are not just that. Just saying that often times a match is alot closer than one would think.

Also GG always means good game regardless of the score. If you get rolled and someone says GG to you and you assume it means the snarky ggclose response.....that is your own poor sportsmanship showing through not theirs.

[Leone]

Next time try dropping in CW. Your team tends to be more team oriented (on average,) the games more forgiving (you get four mechs,) and it's easier for new folk to make money, (Tested, verified by an in house team with a proper scientific approach, Including a control sample where I said we were dropping in CW and went LFG anyways. Silly launch button.)

Sure, he makes more money solo dropping than dropping in group queue, but in CW, that's where we go for fun and c-bills.

~Leone.

[Cementi]

Moenrg, on 01 August 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

PGI made a fairly large mistake when they decided that their "end game" (cw) would pay less than their "starter game" (the solo que). As for the OP, I emphasise, but putting duos in the solo que is not a solution.

Agreed, honestly I will never que solo or small group in CW as the rewards are simply not worth the time invested. Best I can do with a win in CW is about 750k cbills, usually it is more like 550k and that is only on a win, losses are usually around 350k. With wait times I can usually pull off at least 4 matches in the time I could have done one CW. Good matches that are wins are around 250k each. Thats 250k more. Average games including losses for me are about 150k. So all in all I make alot more in 12 v 12. I only do CW for the fun of it when our unit has full drops.

[Mister Blastman]

At least in blackjack I can fold my hand, double down or employ strategy despite the random nature of card selection. In the solo queue, however, I can do nothing. I am at the mercy of the heartless dealer.

I'd rather play blackjack.

[Tristan Winter]

"We're sick of getting rolled!" - 2 and 3-man groups
"Elo isn't working for us, we're getting matched with opponents that are too good!" - 10 man groups
"We have no other 12-man groups to play against!" - 12 man groups
"Community warfare sucks!" - Everyone

No matter what PGI does, there will be sad faces. Being selfish, I'd love to see group queue for only 2, 3 and 4 players and then make CW the place for anything bigger than 4-man groups. The only problem with this is that the CW queue time is ridiculous, partially because so many people hate CW. So forcing people into a queue where they spend most of their playtime waiting and/or playing game modes they don't enjoy is going to upset a lot of people. And bringing back 12-mans as a separate queue is basically pointless, because the percentage of players who play 12-mans is tiny, according to PGI.

It seems to me that the status quo is the lesser of all evils, unless PGI can make some very significant changes to CW, to the point where it will become a larger part of the game for more people.

And yeah, I know everybody doesn't hate CW. Just... a lot of people.