40 replies to this topic

[Knighthawk26]

Who else wants to puke at all the laser vomit builds. The top tier mechs are usually of this variety though they may spout an occasional ppc or gauss. At the moment the distinct advantages of energy weapons ads to their proliferation. I admit to using laser vomit builds, since I like to have an advantage in battle. CW tends to especially favor energy builds because more ammo is needed for these longer matches.

Yes, the quirks push us towards other types of weapons on some mechs, but that just makes these mechs less competative, so some other mech can rise to the top - usually yet another mech with good energy builds.

The real solution would be a system where energy weapons in general were a little less effective, or heavier, or something to provide just enough balance in favor of ballistic or missle weapons to equal things out overall.

[LordNothing]

i want the four dhs on the nova to be unlocked so i can run a ballistics build with a sane quantity of ammo.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 December 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

I'd vote to increase the laser duration across the board.

[Mcgral18]

OR, if the other weapon systems didn't suck balls in comparison?

PPCs were nerfed too hard, to the point of uselessness, needing 30-50% Velocity quirks (funny...the old ~1500M/s) to be semi effective.
They do not, however, need the same cooldown as brawling weapons. Switch that up, make them useful at their optimal range.

SRMs are in a better spot, but short range and big spread (VS magically pinpoint) make them ineffective. Not terribly heat efficient either. Give isSRMs 2.5 damage, to make up for double weight. Iterate from there with speed, cooldown, heat.

Dakka can also benefit from velocity, but will always pale in comparison to Hitscan. Gauss is a wonderful example, actually being effective at optimal range, and 2x optimal, with 2KM/s.

[Johny Rocket]

I get where your coming from but implementing this across the board to the weapons will really hurt smaller energy mechs, like the Woulfhound, Spiders, firestarters etc...

[Charronn]

Yup I am sick of it too.So sick of I have not used my TW in months.
And my might be sold after mastered DW is pure dakka 4 cuac10.
I hate the whack a mole peek shite with lasers.It is what it is but is not enjoyable to me.

Edited by Charronn, 13 December 2015 - 02:51 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Mcgral18, on 13 December 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

OR, if the other weapon systems didn't suck balls in comparison?

PPCs were nerfed too hard, to the point of uselessness, needing 30-50% Velocity quirks (funny...the old ~1500M/s) to be semi effective.
They do not, however, need the same cooldown as brawling weapons. Switch that up, make them useful at their optimal range.

SRMs are in a better spot, but short range and big spread (VS magically pinpoint) make them ineffective. Not terribly heat efficient either. Give isSRMs 2.5 damage, to make up for double weight. Iterate from there with speed, cooldown, heat.

Dakka can also benefit from velocity, but will always pale in comparison to Hitscan. Gauss is a wonderful example, actually being effective at optimal range, and 2x optimal, with 2KM/s.

I agree SRM's are getting better, still not quite enough dmg in one location though and it does yes make them inferior even if its on a smaller scale then it was previously. One remedy, much like McGral stated, would be to INCREASE the DMG per missile, especially for the IS who is taxed with what we now know as Double Weight SRM's due to Clan tech.

I think the isSRM would be at a great spot if increased to 2.5 per missile and a 5%-7% decrease in spread and a SMALL Velocity boost. (Maybe 5%)

The cSRM need just a slight Velocity and Spread Decrease, Both starting at 5% i think would be great.

Coupled with Artemis,SRM's like this on quirked mechs i already have these kind of bonus' makes them viable with either Sides Tech very good even in some settings! Evn when not boating them because my dmg goes where i want it and does it job quickly much like LASERS.

Edited by DarthRevis, 13 December 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[Impyrium]

I still want a reactor energy limit which would limit the amount of lasers or energy weapons that could be fired + guass... and then ditch ghost heat...

[Metus regem]

Dingo Red, on 13 December 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

I still want a reactor energy limit which would limit the amount of lasers or energy weapons that could be fired + guass... and then ditch ghost heat...

I'd also link them size of the energy pool to the size of the reactor as well... Like x weapons are 100% recharge time, anything over that number for energy weapons increases recycle time.

[Jun Watarase]

When i see an entire team comprised almost entirely of LL/LPL/MPL boats i get so naseous that i have to throw up.

[Variant1]

Knighthawk26, on 13 December 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Who else wants to puke at all the laser vomit builds. The top tier mechs are usually of this variety though they may spout an occasional ppc or gauss. At the moment the distinct advantages of energy weapons ads to their proliferation. I admit to using laser vomit builds, since I like to have an advantage in battle. CW tends to especially favor energy builds because more ammo is needed for these longer matches.

Yes, the quirks push us towards other types of weapons on some mechs, but that just makes these mechs less competative, so some other mech can rise to the top - usually yet another mech with good energy builds.

The real solution would be a system where energy weapons in general were a little less effective, or heavier, or something to provide just enough balance in favor of ballistic or missle weapons to equal things out overall.

The reason why there is so many laser builds is because a lot of the mechs have energy hardpoints, in fact some are pure energy. I do agree with you however that something should be done. I think we can all agree the quirk system needs to be removed. It creates a unbalance between lasers and ammo based weapons and promotes cookie cutter builds. Lasers were not as effective as ammo based weapons during the pre quirk era and they were balanced since they did not require ammo. Now you can get on some mechs extra range and less heat not to mention it makes it easier to boat, something ghost heat was designed to curb. We should however keep structure quirks on some mechs.

[C E Dwyer]

I have no desire to puke, as my keyboard is expensive.

This subject has also been done to death, laaazorrrs will remain the meta until the HSR and hit detection is a damn sight better than it is now.

[Dugra Dugrasson]

Better Laser Boats than PPC / UAC Poptarts.

Adjustments are necessary (PPCs could use a touch of love - Gauss as well). However, extensive Energy nerfs only harms the lighter class 'Mechs.

Edited by nodebate, 13 December 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[jaxjace]

Ive always loved lasers, Just because the rest of the community finally realizes after 3 years they are still the best weapon system there is. Pure Laser vomit is still not hard to counter though, thats why everyone runs less lasers and more UACs especially now that the gauss is dead. (Seriously PPcs and Gauss need love, PPcs are so niche its not even funny, even more apparently so on the clan side, Gauss is straight up eviscerated across the board.)

Edited by jaxjace, 13 December 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

PPCs are garbage. Gauss has been nerfed to uselessness. Clan ultras jam so much no one wants them, and the multiple shots vs IS is already a nerf. You need 4-5 of them to really be effective. LRMs, even with the ECM nerf, are low DPS and low skill. SRMs are ok, but not great.

So that leaves you with laser vomit on clans.

[Elizander]

Already got two 3xUAC5 Jagers and counting. :3

[His Holiness Pope Buster]

Just put ballistic and ppc velocities back to where they used to be and you will see laser vomit go away.

[Mcgral18]

His Holiness Pope Buster, on 13 December 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Just put ballistic and ppc velocities back to where they used to be and you will see laser vomit go away.

You don't want it to go away, you want them to co-exist.

Not blanket nerfing one into the ground, while buffing the other.

[Drunk Canuck]

Mcgral18, on 13 December 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

OR, if the other weapon systems didn't suck balls in comparison?

PPCs were nerfed too hard, to the point of uselessness, needing 30-50% Velocity quirks (funny...the old ~1500M/s) to be semi effective.
They do not, however, need the same cooldown as brawling weapons. Switch that up, make them useful at their optimal range.

SRMs are in a better spot, but short range and big spread (VS magically pinpoint) make them ineffective. Not terribly heat efficient either. Give isSRMs 2.5 damage, to make up for double weight. Iterate from there with speed, cooldown, heat.

Dakka can also benefit from velocity, but will always pale in comparison to Hitscan. Gauss is a wonderful example, actually being effective at optimal range, and 2x optimal, with 2KM/s.

Pretty much this. LBX shells need to have their damage doubled. SRM's are actually pretty good in group play, but not on the huge CW maps. One of the advantages about the 12 man tonnage limits is that you can often just cram everyone into chassis of similar tonnage (55-65 tons seems to be good) and your whole group aside from lights can go around the same speed, so you can just death ball into enemies and blast their legs off with massive SRM volley's. I have played the Oxide in group queue recently and that thing is pretty boss, despite it's ammo dependency.

Ballistics are not as bad as people think, though UAC2's are horrible and Clan AC's overall just don't pack the punch to rip through all that shiny new IS armor and structure quirks that lasers can, not to mention the ammo reliance is often an issue for a lot of Clan Mech's. PGI doesn't seem to understand that in their attempts to mitigate Clan pin point laser damage, they just further made laser builds more popular by nerfing the crap out of the Gauss Rifle and made Clan AC's even more inferior than Clan lasers. That's some pro thinking.

Edited by Drunk Canuck, 13 December 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

His Holiness Pope Buster, on 13 December 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Just put ballistic and ppc velocities back to where they used to be and you will see laser vomit go away.

It won't go away, because Clan AC's are garbage with too much face time to try and rip through all the new IS quirks and PPC's as a whole are too fricking hot for the damage they do. Make Clan ER PPC's straight up 15 damage and I might consider using them, but they have been bad since release and shouldn't be limited to two extremely mediocre Clan Mech's for having quirks to make them damn well not horrible.