12 replies to this topic

[LSDizzy]

Hi guys I'm quite new to MWO still learning the ropes, I have played quite a bit of LRM boat with my CPLT-A1 and have had great success with it. Now I'm looking to be on the other end of that, I want to play a light mech scout, able to paint targets for other LRM boats and just give the enemy a hard time. Any advice on building said mech would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Painting targets for LRM boats as a dedicated scout? It's...well, it kinda works, but at the same time you also need to be able to dish out damage to get your CBills.

The RVN-3L is probably best suited for this role. It's got ECM to cloak your movements, it has buffs to NARC beacon range and duration, and it's got high mounted hardpoints so you can peek over hills. TAG is a death sentence for lights because it's highly visible and the last thing you want as a scouting light is to be spotted, so NARC is a better idea here. As an added bonus, you can use NARC to jam enemy ECM so your LRM boats have an easier time landing hits. 3 MPL gives you a reasonable medium-close range punch in case you need to support your heavies or need to fight your way out of a hairy situation.

RVN-3L MPL/NARC

Highly recommended modules: Radar Deprivation, Adv. Seismic Sensor.

Edited by ArcturusWolf, 20 December 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

There are a couple of lights that are well-suited to scouting (and a whole bunch that aren't).

The first you should take a serious look at is the Raven. It has high mounts, a decent top speed, and a variant with ECM- all very useful features for a scout 'Mech. The variant you want to be looking most closely at is the RVN-3L, which can mount ECM. The accepted 'meta' config for it looks something like this, with 2 ERLL for offensive punch. You can also run it with a bunch of support hardware, but support equipment is usually a gamble since you really need another player with LRMs to make the best use of things like TAG and NARC (ECM is always useful; it benefits you as much as anyone you cover with it). A support config might look like this, or this. The other Raven variants are also very good right now, offering a range of different loadout possibilities... but mostly geared towards direct combat, whereas the 3L is the go-to scout light.

The Spider is also an option for Inner Sphere players, as is the Locust, and the Commando. None of those are as strong as the Raven (typically they make big tradeoffs to run any support hardware at all), but all can carry ECM. If you are willing to move up to a medium chassis, the Cicada is also great for scouting, as it has a very high engine cap for its size and also boasts an ECM variant (the CDA-3M). For the Clan side, the Arctic Cheetah is pretty much the best of the best, with ECM and pretty much whatever else you care to stuff in it... or, if you prefer to stick with the team and support them up close, the Kit Fox supports a very handy 3xAMS ECM omnipod, which you can combine with other support equipment for pretty much the ultimate buddy 'Mech (you won't make as much money in that, however, since your damage output will probably be low).

You are likely to find that, in order to be the most effective scout possible, you will need ECM. I would not consider any 'Mech without ECM to be an effective scout- not in today's environment of high-damage pinpoint alphas. The only way you're going to be able to linger in an area long enough to provide useful targeting data is if you stay out of sight- which means circling around behind the enemy team, staying outside your ECM's disruption range (presently 90m) of any enemies you encounter so as not to alert them to your presence. Try to use NARC as your primary spotting tool, since it allows you to designate a target and then get back into cover, whereas TAG requires you to maintain line-of-sight to target (if you can see them, they can see you and kill you).

The single most effective scouting tool, however, is the UAV consumable item. Any fast 'Mech can become an instant scout with a UAV- you run up behind (or near, but preferably behind) the enemy, deploy it, and run away as fast as you can. The UAV will cancel any active enemy ECM in a wide radius, as well as enabling your allies to target anything beneath its coverage. For a measly 40,000 cbills, you can literally change the course of a match by denying the enemy cover and showing your team exactly where to attack. Any config can benefit from mounting a UAV (for instance, an assault 'Mech leading a push can deploy one as it breaks into the enemy line, or you can deploy one when you're outnumbered and about to die so that your allies can at least see what killed you and recover before it gets them too), but fast lights are better able to get into positions where the UAV will provide the best information for their team. Every config geared towards scouting or support should have a UAV, even if you don't get a good opportunity to use it every match.

As Arcturus said, Seismic Sensor is also a great module to carry. It lets you see around coners and through cover as long as you're standing still, so you can avoid poking out into an instant, messy death... or call an enemy push before it has a chance to roll over your team's position.

Edited by PS WrathOfDeadguy, 20 December 2015 - 04:35 PM.

[Void Angel]

LSDizzy, on 20 December 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

Hi guys I'm quite new to MWO still learning the ropes, I have played quite a bit of LRM boat with my CPLT-A1 and have had great success with it. Now I'm looking to be on the other end of that, I want to play a light mech scout, able to paint targets for other LRM boats and just give the enemy a hard time. Any advice on building said mech would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

LRMs are... problematic, because they don't scale linearly with skill. When you first start the game at Tier 5, nobody or his Clanner uncle really knows how to deal with LRMs. They're not too familiar with line of sight, countermeasures, or use of cover. As you progress, players become more familiar with LRMs and their use, which allows them to minimize the effectiveness of enemy LRMs. At top levels of play, LRMs can be used by a skilled pilot - but the direct-fire options are typically better. Of course, PGI just buffed LRMs a bit, and you can expect them to keep on adjusting them (up and down,) but the point is that while you should learn to use and counter LRMs, it may not be the best thing to focus on.

For me, playing a Marauder in my Tier 3 matches? I don't need an LRM spotter - I need a scout! I need someone with a light 'mech, preferably with ECM, who is willing and able to get out there and find the enemy before the main body finds them by face-checking a corner, or getting hit from the flank - or the rear. TAG is helpful, as is NARC, but not required in all matches. A good scout, however, is invaluable at all levels of play. It's not easy; you have to learn to get the most out of your 'mech's maneuverability, how to avoid getting swarmed down by the enemy's lights, where to go on the map to get eyes on the enemy without being spotted or trapped. It's also fun, and it does not preclude you from doing damage - but it can make or break a match.

Whether you go Scout/spotter, or pure scout, using Seismic Sensor and Radar Deprivation (yes, even with ECM) is highly recommended. You should also always carry a UAV and an Artillery (or Air; they're less useful overall, but powerful situationally; learn both) Strike consumable. I don't mean "always when you are playing a scout," I mean always. The other consumables simply cannot compare to the utility and benefits those two modules provide. Don't use them just to be using them, because they are expensive, but they also generate a lot of experience at the expense of C-bills, so they're especially great leveling a chassis.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

First bit of advice? DON'T.

Okay, that's not really fair. Also, disclaimer: I am NOT attempting to be condescending or mean or whatnot. If I come off as such, please understand it's not my intent. I'm here to try to help.

Welcome to MWO, by the way!

Okay. Two things that, as a CPLT driver, you may have noticed can be HELPFUL. NARC is one, TAG is the other. NARC is technically a missile weapon, and TAG an energy one, so you'll want a mech that can carry one or the other.

NARC requires you to get within range of an enemy, have direct line of sight, and if the enemy is moving, to be able to LEAD the target to hit it. Great thing about NARC, it doesn't give away your position when fired.

TAG requires CONSTANT line of sight, has a better range, and doesn't need a lead on the target. But that CONSTANT part is the catch, as you're technically exposed to the enemy for as long as you're designating. Cool, though, that the enemy gets NO indication in his/her cockpit that they're being designated with TAG, at least not specifically. They'd need a friendly to notice the icon over their HUD brackets and let them know.

MOST light mechs have a couple E hard points. Any one will be generally sufficient with a TAG, and fill in the blanks with the fastest engine you can, plenty of armor, and MOAR GUNZ! Fewer have M hard points, though those are still pretty common.

You may have noticed from the previous posts, that the RVN-3L is THE first mech that comes to mind for an LRM spotter. The NARC quirks are ridiculous on that thing, and the Advanced NARC (?) weapon module on top of the 3L's quirks can make for a roughly 1-minute NARC duration. That's THE Narc platform. You could also consider a LCT-3S for its phenomenal speed, small size, etc. Most FS9's would do alright with TAG, I suppose, though that's not really playing to the strengths of the platform. Jenners can carry both NARC and TAG, for the most part. The Arctic Cheetah, as Clanners go, is a great call.

And that brings me to another point. The longer you can remain unnoticed by the enemy while you're spotting, the more effective the spotted fires will be. ECM is a HUGE help with that. If you run ECM, then no mech out there (save AP-equipped ones within the probe's range) will get the automatic target bracket on you on their HUD. That's HUGE, because we get spoiled on those. Without that, you CAN and sometimes WILL go unnoticed by the enemy while spotting LRMs on him.

So, back to why I advise AGAINST this.

Fun and rewarding as it is, it WILL draw out the worst in our community's players. Your teammates, especially those that were killed out of the fight early, will take the time to chat/VOIP their rage at you, because you're not brawling like they think you should have to save their match. NOT your fault. Nonetheless, be aware of it. NEXT, you may find that the LRM-carrying teammates do not regard your TAG/NARC target designations at all, and you've wasted your time and effort and tonnage. Happens more often than you might think, either because they are involved in a closer fight at the moment, or they simply aren't carrying LRMs, or they're relatively new to the game and the whole TAG/NARC thing isn't explained at all in the Academy.

BUT, there's a caveat to my advice against it. IF you have a pal/buddy/hombre/home-slice that you can roll with, who will be running significant LRMs and will hook up with you on some sort of voice comms, then it may, MAY, be a VERY rewarding arrangement.

SUMMARY:

RVN-3L or any ACH w/ACH-B LT omnipod will be awesome for this role. Also, any fast light (say 110 km/h or faster) with a free E or M hard point will work. Best to do it in a team effort, though, keeping CLOSELY coordinated with your LRM boat for best results. And expect rage from your teammates.

GOOD LUCK, and please, PLEASE, let us know how it's working out for you!

Edited by TheRAbbi, 21 December 2015 - 04:03 AM.

[InsaneRotta]

TheRAbbi, on 21 December 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

RVN-3L or any ACH w/ACH-B LT omnipod will be awesome for this role.

Hi,

I fail to see the usefullness of the ACH-B left torso other than some structure quirks. Did you mean the Prime variants LT with the ECM slot?

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I must have it mixed up with the Shadow Cat, then. Thought it was the ACH. My bad. But yes, the ECM LT omnipod is the one I mean. Thanks for catching that.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 20 December 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

the Kit Fox supports a very handy 3xAMS ECM omnipod, which you can combine with other support equipment for pretty much the ultimate buddy 'Mech (you won't make as much money in that, however, since your damage output will probably be low).

I've tried this build, many many times. And to be honest, the NARC kitfox is in pretty bad shape due to its poor scaling, slow speed and low-mounted missile hardpoints. You would need to expose the entirety of your upper half if poking over a hill to shoot the NARC, or half the CT and the right side of the kitfox if poking from the right of a hill or wall. Neither of these is a good option if you're within 500m of the target.

To be honest, I think the KFX is in a really weird position when it comes to balancing. It's good at very close range with its monstrous SRM bomb loadouts (48 alpha on a light mech is pretty scary, combined with its spread reduction quirks), and it can be sort of good at long range (ECM + ERPPC, but an adder does ERPPCs better). It's too slow to go scouting without risking a horrible melty death at the hands of the FS9, ACH or Jenner, to say nothing about its terrible scaling which puts it as larger than quite a few of the mediums in game. So, it's best used as a heavy or assault escort, or a pocket medium more than a fast light mech.

Try this build if you want to support, but honestly the kitfox is about as far away from a legit scouting mech as you can get. Faster mediums with ECM could do it better. This one is designed to skirmish (with ERPPC + ECM), anti-missile support (ECM + 3x AMS), and offer moderately powerful close-range defense (SRM8 + ERPPC when required). I still prefer the SRM24 kitfox by far to this, in any case.
KFX-C

That being said, there are quirks on the Kit Fox that should not be underestimated. Every last quirk needs to be taken advantage of in order to produce maximum effect, and this particular build makes use of those omni-pods where possible.

KFX-PRIME legs offer + reverse speed, which lets you back out of sticky situations better, but otherwise C pods are better than prime in every way.

Edited by ArcturusWolf, 22 December 2015 - 06:30 AM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

The NARC on that Fox isn't for peeking over hills with, it's strictly for marking targets that are otherwise already in sight. ACH runs by? NARC him. Push rolls over the hill? Feed 'em some popcorn to encourage your guys to focus fire. Flankers in the backfield? Light 'em up for everybody to see. As long as the enemy's 180m or more away from the LRM boats (if any), then they can help with missile support, and with C-NARC's extra range you can light up pretty much anything that you have LOS on. It's good for calling targets even without any LRMs present, too- people seem to get the hint better when you can light up an indicator on their HUD to go with your call (it'd be nice if the NARC indicator blinked or something, though. People are stupid).

Still, any NARC build is situational. I tend not to use anything with it unless I'm in a group, because if nobody's paying attention then it's 4 or 5 tons of wasted space that could have been dealing damage instead.

[Johny Rocket]

Ewar Raven, 3L has ecm but 4X has an extra mech slot and crazy energy range quirks. Radar dep is kinda redundant on an ecm mech on the 3L I bring ecm, seismic and sensor range/ target decay. I usually skip the narc on the 3L because I run a short range build to take full advantage of the seismic and ecm, I scout corners and choke points, so I want both missile slots for srm6. I back that up with 2 ml and a tag. Yes tag gives your location away if you are in front of them but in the thick of a fight you are less scarry than your assaults and outside of that scenario with a fast ecm carrier you should be behind them. Pick the furthest guy back so no one sees your beam or how their teammates are getting murdered. You don't know when your tagged but your teammates will see the tag symbol next to your triangle, same for narc.

Besides taking up a precious missile slot narc is also heavy, 3 tons and requires at least a ton of ammo.

That being said from someone who loves LRM5 spam, you narc and i will let you know in chat how much I love you. My favorite mech is a KTO 18 5x5lrm and an erll, you narc them 9 out of 10 times they won't survive it.

Final point about narc, don't run up and narc everyone at once, you are wasting most of your ammo. Spread them out and you can bring less ammo and maximize your bonuses.

Do not let tryhards dissuade you, in the Ravens Im more worried about scouting than damage and thanks to the bonus rework a bit back, with 200-300 damage maybe a couple of kills, my cb earnings are often in the 300-400k range (I usually have premium time because I am constantly leveling new mechs).

[Psi Anara]

I have been having a bit of success with this RVN-3L build, with 2 friends running LRM boats. I like it because it has the 2 Medium lasers for more firepower if I get a flank on someone or have to fight another light, and the ER Large Laser for a bit of sniping too. I generally get about 300 damage and a killing blow or two plus plenty of support for my LRM friends. If I don't have people I trust with LRMs you could always grab an SRM 6 for some more offense, but obviously you could do different mechs much better if you wanted more combat.

[DivineTomatoes]

I've been playing a support curefox all day. Nerc, tag, ecm, active probe, 3 ams and 3 tons on ammo. The only offensive weapon being a ER medium.

All I can say for the amount of weapons sacrificed to try and help your team, it's just not worth it.

99% of the time if you are lucky and get a lrm heavy team they simply don't give a ****. You tell them so and so is narced or tagged and they ignore it. Or you try helping your assault by sticking to them and they demand you scout or they just team kills you.

Then there's the rewards, or lack there of. narc give you jack ****, tag gives you squat, ams gives you nothing. There is no point in even trying.

[a Cat piloting a BattleMech]

I am a rather new player (around christmas) and i have had quite some success with a 3L build that looks like this:
RVN-3L
(the armor values may not be 100% accurate)

Granted, it does nothing special for your lrm friends, but it spots quite well, while it can still blow up an enemy light. And you do not have to rely on dropping with an lrm heavy team that gives a damn about your narcing, but you could try that too. I did it for some matches but noticed no difference, so I went back to the srm.
I think the speed is the thing that might take some getting used to. If you like how fast the trial raven goes, this might be something for you (or a locust, if you want to go even faster than 150kph)
Use this to be that nasty light mech you hate when you are dropping in a catapult