34 replies to this topic

[spartync]

I will preface this saying a few things:

• I don't believe PSR is a true metric for pilot skill.
  
• I don't claim to know the inner workings of the PSR system.
  
• Your mileage may vary...

I started playing on the 22nd of December.

Since then I've played 144 matches.

I *think* everyone starts as PSR around 50% filled in the XP bar.

My W/L is 85/59 so it's not overwhelmingly positive in the W/L area.

Maybe more telling is the average XP per match of 1,302.99 and a K:D of 2.12.

That said, I advanced into PSR 4 with this information.

I am posting this because I suspect, like me, you're wondering what it actually takes or what a tier up looks like in terms of game stats. I tracked mine pretty religiously in a notebook during my first week or so here.

My top damage in a match was 1,019 with the BJ-3 on HPG in Skirmish yesterday evening. In that match we lost and I only ended up with with 1 killing blow and 5 assists. In that loss, my pilot skill went up.

I got the Ace of Spades in the Arrow Hero Blackjack on the 28th and was 8 killing blows and 3 assists.

A lot of what I've witnessed is folks just making plain poor decisions by being impatient. The impatient players are the ones getting LIT UP on the regular. I've also noticed that a lot of newer players will get damaged, and then just stand in place and try trading alpha strikes with the guy standing cockpit to cockpit with him. Again ... lack of patience.

The story I see play out most frequently in Tier 5 goes like this:

Match Starts
Mechs race off to a defensive position and start trading damage.
The opposing team takes out a few aggressive mechs on one team.
The team gets nervous by the kills and starts getting more aggressive in the trades or makes an early push that results in more death.
6 Mech kills seems to be the tipping point where cohesion just breaks down completely and you're watching a WW2 dogfight at that point with people flying all over the place without regard to the optimal ranges on their weapons or anything.


Sadly ... the teams that are content to just continue with favorable trades usually wins BIG. That tipping point comes quickly and then mop up gets even more uneven.

Patience seems like the biggest key because it lets you evaluate your trades, reposition, look at your weapon ranges, get a feel for where the battle is developing and where you can race off to assist or back up when that Atlas or King Crab decides to Red rover on over ...

LOTS of fun though and I'm definitely hooked.

[Smidjun 1]

Wow! You certainly hit the nail on the head!
Let me just preface this with: In My Opinion

Of course you left out a couple of things. As soon as they are hit by missiles or lasers many mechs begin a full retreat. I for one have had legs badly damaged by members on my own team! At other times after all of the "stick together" rhetoric as soon as the drop lands everyone splits up. Very little target acquisition for the LRM's, and very little cover for their delicate rears.
In the Faction play everyone wants to "push" in, which ALWAYS leaves the slower heavy mechs defending their butts when the other guys run round behind them, and quickly pounded them to death.

Ok I'm a noob - what do I know?
I know there isn't much leadership out there. I know there isn't much comradery out there and everyone seems to feel like it's every man for himself, which as far as I can tell is the way is. The worlds are in chaos. We need to rally the troops and take our worlds back!

The maps themselves are the same so learning where to set up to pound an incoming enemy was easy enough to figure out.
I have to admit I am one of the impatient ones, but I can assure you I have only been advised on tactics and maneuvering here on two occasions. I learned both times, and will every time a leader shows me a better way I want to hear it.

The only real way to win these battles is to group up with people that will work together, and learn how each other works.

Edited by Jaylee101, 01 January 2016 - 08:49 PM.

[Wintersdark]

PSR is impacted by player skill but in many ways an XP bar. Player skill determines how fast it grows, more than anything else. It'll grow regardless over time unless you do very poorly consistently.

If you regularly do very well, it can increase quite rapidly, although for most people its more gradual.

We DO know the inner workings of the PSR system, though, and its very simple. It used match score (not damage done, match score) on a chart.

Here's how: http://mwomercs.com/...07#entry4720207

It's definitely my experience that, as you climb the ladder, there is more camaraderie and leadership, but also an expectation that you know what you should do and do it.

How people are in matches depends heavily on time of day and day of week, however. Prime time, weekends (particularly weekend events) and shortly after school sorts of times tend to be the worst. At least for NA time zones.

[Rogue Jedi]

more often than not the more aggressive team wins, but that needs to be the whole team pushing into the enemy simultaneously, possibly from multiple directions, if the enemy knows exactly where you are that is a problem, regardless of what some people think scouting can be extremely useful IF the team are prepared to use that information.

if the enemy has a good firing line setup and you know it, you have the following options,
if in assault assign 1-2 Lights to cap the enemy base, that forces them to respond
if conquest then just take the other points and the enemy ether react or loose
if skirmish or in assault your team does not have fast Mechs:
form a firing line and hope your players are more patient than the enemy
or leave a few Mechs where they expect while the rest of the team flanks to come around from behind/beside the firing line, then push in and start killing them, when the enemy move to engage your main force the "diversion" lance pushes in and rips them apart

[Appogee]

The team that hides and doesn't shoot loses.

I created a thread about this, including an explanation of why hiding leads to defeat, but it was Jettisoned to "off topic".

I'm not sure how a thread about "hiding in MWO causes team losses" is off topic, but hopefully posting it in this thread won't cause the moderators any concern.

[Smidjun 1]

I often see a great deal of great ideas and suggestions here in the forums, so it baffles me when I play the game and see people do the same thing over and over, sometimes winning and sometimes losing.
Granted this is quick play I am talking about so for what it's worth wile these tactical suggestions are great here on paper, out there on the battlefield things are quite different.
When the shooting starts it becomes Ants in the rain! Mechs backing into team mates or running into a team mates line of fire and stopping. No one wants to take command because "no one ever listens" but will expect everyone to listen when they just start barking commands during combat. Not that clicking a commander button gives you any tactical sense or me any reason to follow your lead.
"Stay together" usually means "keep up with me", I can't understand why they cant stay with me at my blazing 64.8 kph, but I keep hoping they will catch up!
My point is it It's just a 1st person shoot - em - up that doesn't generate confidence in the leaders, or trust in your fellow warriors.
A pug is NOT your friend.

[mailin]

The first and most important thing is for everyone to get on comms, at least to listen. Once that happens maybe more people will talk. The second most important thing is that if someone gives a direction, you follow it, even if you think it's a bad idea. The team that fights as a unit wins. One of the best most recent matches I had on Alpine was where someone said, "I hate the hill, let's _____________ instead." We all followed that suggestion and we won the match without going up any hills at all.

The third most important thing is press R. Always, always, ALWAYS keep a target locked, and always lock your current target.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Well, people are in tier 5 for a reason. Either they're new and it's time for them to learn the basics, not meet any harsh opposition, or there are other things lowering their potential: old age, lack of any other experience in PC gaming (yup, I know people who don't play PC games at all, only the battletech ones, because TT nostalgia), disabilities, lack of hand-eye coordination etc. etc.

From my observations, tier 4 is better, but not by too much. Tier 3 is where the fights start to get significantly more dynamic and interesting (not all of them, but still).

@Smidjun - remember, your quickplay experience is highly dependant on the tier you're on. In general, the higher (i.e. lower ) the tier, the more teamplay, cooperation, coordination and skill. Battles tend to get more dynamic and players are more agressive. Not (that often) stupidly agressive, mind you, but "I saw you made a mistake and I'm gonna hurry to take advantage of it and shred you to pieces before my teammates do the same" type of aggresive.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 03 February 2016 - 12:19 AM.

[Smidjun 1]

Well since it's not always only one person barking orders, which ones do you follow unquestioningly? If my own experience is that I do this and die every time, I'm going to stop doing that no matter who says I should.
Still not understanding the tier concept yet, but I'll get it. I see very little work together in quick play. I do see a lot of Lone wolf solo activity, and those who tend to buy the biggest baddest clan mech they can find and try to figure out how to make I work.

My average life span is 5.30 minutes. Not because I can't play or function in the game but because I often myself standing all alone while some light mech shreds my backside, where only seconds before there were numerous team mates most of whom hit reverse as soon as they saw trouble, and left everyone else behind without even a warning. That ain't tiers it's human behavior. And no everyone one has or wants to use a mic.

You fight a war with the soldiers you have, not the soldiers you want. You can't blame a defeat on some one not having a mic. A defeat OR a win depends on the team you are working with or not working with, an again in my opinion, even "ASSAULT" maps have turned into "Skirmish" maps since very few even bother to try to cap the opposing base. It isn't really a win if you blow the primary objective and allow more than 1 or 2 of your TEAM die. (Yeah I know here come the "it's only a game" ers) What can I say - if you're only going to do half the job why do the job at all. Thank goodness they don't use the commodore version since you had to PAY for repairs to your mech after each mission! Can you imagine the crying THAT would cause?

I'm not a good leader type myself, but I know situations that repeatedly put me in harms way and I am quickly learning that not too many other people on that battle field are slowing down to stay with their slower members; Not very concerned with who is around them when they move or fire an couldn't careless what is happening to you until THEY "need help in D5!"

I'm also quickly learning that just because you want people to go where you want doesn't mean it's going to happen, and many with brains do not follow blindly.

Of course this is just my opinion.

[Katotonic]

Hey Spartync and Smidjun,

First welcome and glad you guys are having fun. Not sure how much you guys have read through the forums yet but one thing about this game is that there is a STEEP learning curve which you guys are just on the start of so stick with it!

As for who to listen to or ways to get people to listen to you - at the lower tiers or when just starting out, people generally don't know where to go or what to do in various situations as you have noticed. So my suggestion is this, even if it is not your personality try to take the lead yourselves. When I say "take the lead" I don't mean say "follow me" instead lay out a plan and a reason why (example: "everyone meet up at J10 and then head up the 10 line so that we can avoid murder row at the top of the canyon) and it is surprising how many people will listen and try to accomplish the goal. Even if you know nothing about the map or how best to play it, if you sound like you have a reasonable plan and why, people will follow it. The crazy thing here: you end up winning a lot more often even not knowing the map or the game because everyone is generally working together. With PUG play, the team that works together more, even if only slightly, usually wins.

Alternatively, join up with a unit. Best way to learn is from people who have more time in game and units can help with that. Lots out there, most good. My own is Aces Wild (http://the-aces.enjin.com/) and you are welcome to join us. Doing group drops also pulls you out of the individual que which lets you actually play with much more experience players (tier 1-3) and make friends in the game.

[Ruslan Savelyev]

I have not figured out how to "game the system" in a light yet, but the PSR math is mostly simple. Match score is overwhelming calculated based on damage, and a high match score means either a big gain on a win or no rating change on a loss. So just pick a 'Mech that is capable of doing as much damage as possible in as few buttons as possible. Trial TBR, KGC, DWF are all easy, high output 'Mechs.

The game adjusts your PSR based on an expected contribution. It does not consider whether you are driving a WHK-P or a LCT-1M. Based on a 50/50 W/L, if you consistently select a 'Mech that can do 400+ damage when played poorly, you will steadily gain PSR. If you consistently select a 'Mech that can only hit 200 damage with a winning team and careful gameplay, you will most likely steadily lose PSR.

[Bilbo]

Ruslan Savelyev, on 03 February 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

I have not figured out how to "game the system" in a light yet, but the PSR math is mostly simple. Match score is overwhelming calculated based on damage, and a high match score means either a big gain on a win or no rating change on a loss. So just pick a 'Mech that is capable of doing as much damage as possible in as few buttons as possible. Trial TBR, KGC, DWF are all easy, high output 'Mechs.

The game adjusts your PSR based on an expected contribution. It does not consider whether you are driving a WHK-P or a LCT-1M. Based on a 50/50 W/L, if you consistently select a 'Mech that can do 400+ damage when played poorly, you will steadily gain PSR. If you consistently select a 'Mech that can only hit 200 damage with a winning team and careful gameplay, you will most likely steadily lose PSR.

You can do this, but when you get to the higher tiers you are gonna have a bad time until you learn how to actually pull your weight. Better to do the learning in the lower tiers with various mechs than at the higher tiers treading water or sinking like a rock trying to figure out why it's so hard to get 400 damage now when everyone else on your team is always putting out 300+ themselves.

[Skarlock]

spartync, on 01 January 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

Patience seems like the biggest key because it lets you evaluate your trades, reposition, look at your weapon ranges, get a feel for where the battle is developing and where you can race off to assist or back up when that Atlas or King Crab decides to Red rover on over ...

LOTS of fun though and I'm definitely hooked.

Single queue is probably what you play the most, right? In single queue it's just kind of like this. At higher tiers of single queue, the average build and the average shooting ability goes up, and occasionally you run into some truly exceptional players who are absolute wrecking balls. Overall though, people are better mechanically and build wise on their mechs, but still lacking some fundamental understanding of positioning and have poor communication.

In group queue at higher tiers, things get a bit more serious. You can run into some average groups with decent composition and positioning, some lower tier groups who aren't any better than 12 random players, and again, some absolute monster groups that typically stomp anything in their path.

At the absolute highest level of play, everyone already knows where they need to be, what the favorable position is, how to achieve it, where they will be getting shot from, where their cover is, how the battle will flow, etc. No thought or communication is needed because they have scrimed on the map a billion times to get it right. So really it becomes much more of a race and much more of a mind reading contest about who can get a better read on what the other team is going to do, and apply the appropriate counter. Drop callers have only what their eyes can see and what their team tells them, everything is murky and unsure, and you have only a small window to do the correct thing or you lose a third of your team in a heartbeat to a well executed push you aren't in a position to counter in any way. You rarely see this type of competition outside of league play.

Edited by Skarlock, 03 February 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[Smidjun 1]

I still don't get what the tiers have to do with it. I'm a teir 5 and I got that way simply by playing the game. Nothing special came of it that I could see, and it hasn't changed anything as far as I can tell in game play so I have no clue what you are talking about there.
I'm curious as to were you are playing cause in the quick play I am in it usually goes one of three ways. Either there are several people barking different orders while NO ONE TAKES COMMAND, or the group doesn't speak much and they all run out to the center a though there was some perfect combat area and get surrounded then turn into a bunch of ants in the rain, or the are shouting "stay together" while running off and leaving any slower moving party members behind.
The tactical common sense goes out the window and there is little to no cohesion in the group. Even the Lances don't remain together to protect each other. they literally don't care about either their team mates or the mission they are on.
There absolutely IS NO TEAM in quick play it's EMFH with a few working together on occasion.
I have actually joined 2 different teams which I after ward learned the members are seldom on during the times I am playing, so while all of that Pollyanna stuff works sometimes it is certainly no recipe for success here.

People randomly shoot you in the back and then it's Oops, sorry accident. They couldn't care less where their team mates are or what the condition of the team is. The primary mission I irrelevant because you can just kill everything!

And then someone shouts that we need to PUSH which occasionally gets a few mechs moving but fails because the whole team is not in it. If you're seeing something else in the quick play games I'm not sure what that is..

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Smidjun 1, on 15 February 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

I still don't get what the tiers have to do with it. I'm a teir 5 and I got that way simply by playing the game. Nothing special came of it that I could see, and it hasn't changed anything as far as I can tell in game play so I have no clue what you are talking about there.
I'm curious as to were you are playing cause in the quick play I am in it usually goes one of three ways. Either there are several people barking different orders while NO ONE TAKES COMMAND, or the group doesn't speak much and they all run out to the center a though there was some perfect combat area and get surrounded then turn into a bunch of ants in the rain, or the are shouting "stay together" while running off and leaving any slower moving party members behind.
The tactical common sense goes out the window and there is little to no cohesion in the group. Even the Lances don't remain together to protect each other. they literally don't care about either their team mates or the mission they are on.
There absolutely IS NO TEAM in quick play it's EMFH with a few working together on occasion.
I have actually joined 2 different teams which I after ward learned the members are seldom on during the times I am playing, so while all of that Pollyanna stuff works sometimes it is certainly no recipe for success here.

People randomly shoot you in the back and then it's Oops, sorry accident. They couldn't care less where their team mates are or what the condition of the team is. The primary mission I irrelevant because you can just kill everything!

And then someone shouts that we need to PUSH which occasionally gets a few mechs moving but fails because the whole team is not in it. If you're seeing something else in the quick play games I'm not sure what that is..

Tier 5 is the entry tier. The "worst" one. The best one is tier 1.

EDIT: In simple words, as long as you're tier 5, you'll gonna be matched up against THE worst/freshest players that play this game.

If you want to see better players in your matches, you have to advance in your tier, i.e. just get good match score more ofthen than not. In tier 5 sadly, you have to learn to work on your own. Fortunately, it will only get better with time and tiers.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 16 February 2016 - 12:37 AM.

[VXJaeger]

Enjoy your seal-clubbing time as long as you can.

BTW I made alt-acco I went playing with tier 4/5-players. A couple dozen matches and my K/D was over 6 with trial-mechs, so I guess that tells how much PSR effects.

Edited by Ovcharka, 16 February 2016 - 01:02 AM.

[aGentleWarrior]

The patience thing...

I played WoT, WoWP, now MWO, whether I hide with the tank in a bush, I dive down on a attack airplane... it is always patience which decides, or in other words - let the enemy do the first mistakes.

But on the other hand it is just a game, and what do i have to loose when i make a mistake?
WoWP was extreme in that issue. The longer you stay with your plane at high altitude, the higher the chance to dominate the game and win. But to achieve that you play meta and wait and wait and wait ... NO FUN
For me that game meant to decide: play to win or play to have fun (I am that kind of player where win != fun)

MWO is much more forgiving, you don't have repair bills for your mechs.
Finally OP stats seem way better then mine regarding avg dmg, xp or kill/death, but over time i managed to get to tier 3 while he states to be in tier 4 ... That feels crazy.

[Exard3k]

Ovcharka, on 16 February 2016 - 12:52 AM, said:

Enjoy your seal-clubbing time as long as you can.

BTW I made alt-acco I went playing with tier 4/5-players. A couple dozen matches and my K/D was over 6 with trial-mechs, so I guess that tells how much PSR effects.

Or it tells us how OP Trial Mechs are

[Smidjun 1]

So far I haven't heard anything here that suggests this is anything other than a first person shooter.

Teams are NOT a required part of this, especially in quick play. I will see what happens as my "tiers" go down ( although I still do not see any REAL benefit to the concept ), but I cannot imagine being in a different tier will change the behavior that is abundant on the servers (very laggy servers I might add).

People are still not gonna follow your orders just because you pushed the right button.
Won't keep people from barking orders without even pushing the right button and expecting them to be followed.
Won't keep them from backing into you when the shooting starts or shooting you in the back as they start off and test their weapons! Won't keep them from thinking that because they went and bought this huge mean clan mech that they are the Lone Wolf Solo Heroe of the game because they did 4000 damage. No accunting for the 7 men or mechs your team lost (and in earlier versions would have required you to pay for repairs and replacements giving the need to work together some purpose), or the fact that very often the primary mission is tossed just so they can kill everyone.

Perhaps at lower tiers the tactical genius level is higher though I can't imagine the people I'm playing with getting any smarter, since after about a month and a half of seeing many of the same names I see them doing the same silly shtuff! And very surprisingly I have found Faction play to often (not always) go on the same way.

I have on several occasions tried to take command on the simple basis of the Lance. Cat herding is not fun and was a 50/50 crap shoot on the wins losses. Sometimes I had 1 or 2 that worked with me, but for the most part it was a lost cause.

Just frustrated I guess. Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The game (or the people in it) just makes you want to pound the key board sometimes.

[B0oN]

Forget that Tier metric ... it´s not worth anything .
There´s as much facepalm-able actions going on with Tier 1 as with Tier 5, so it isn´t accurate in reflecting pilot skill at all .