30 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

In lore there are 'Mechs like the Rifleman which are designed to fill AA role. Now, in TT the range of weapons are actually not that far if I get it correctly. Then how could such weapons/Mechs reach aerospace fighters flying high up in the sky? Unless they are flying really low which would be dumb....

I guess there are more things in the lore which need to be translated into a game environment so you could have a working game. Am I correct in my assumption?

[Max OConnor]

A lot of the "FLUFF" that was in the original Technical Readouts, which made the book awesome in my opinion, do not always translate directly into a game mechanic per se'. The Rifleman's AA ability was more due to its Radar tracking ability and the ability to rotate the arms and torso 360 degrees to better track aircraft. In the game, the Aerospace fighters have to come within weapon ranges to shoot the mechs, therefore they are also in range of the Mech's guns too.

[Hit the Deck]

Max OConnor, on 02 February 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

...In the game, the Aerospace fighters have to come within weapon ranges to shoot the mechs, therefore they are also in range of the Mech's guns too.

So it finally makes sense, though in a funny way

[Sears]

Hit the Deck, on 02 February 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

So it finally makes sense, though in a funny way

That's the tabletop rules in a nutshell.

[Solis Obscuri]

And there are some rules/quirks in TT that can make 'mechs like the Rifleman or Jagermech pretty good against aeroteks and VTOLs.

What never made any damn sense, though, was the Quickdraw supposedly being designed as a competitor to the Rifleman as an anti-aircraft 'mech. Everything about it screamed that it was more of a competitor to the Dragon, a fast brawler and skirmisher, not a anti-air/fire support platform.

[Nebfer]

Oddly enough in TT the ranges for AA shooting maxes out at around 2,000 meters in altitude (requires a weapon with a range of 16 or more), which brings up some interesting oddity's, like if a PPC only has a range of 18 (540 meters) on ground targets yet can hit a ASF flying at supersonic speeds at 2,000 meters.

Another oddity is the fact that in game elevations are not tracked as well, so it is perfectly valid to fire on a target that is on a level 300 hex, with a MG as long as the unit is only at most 3 hexes away. What that means a Target can easily be 1,800 meters higher than the attacker even though the weapon has a max ground range of 90 meters, the attack is still valid. In other words a mech standing on the edge of the roof of the Empire State building is a valid target to be hit by a mech with a MG/Small laser/ect that is standing on the street below.

A few other interesting facts on B-tech game ranges.
The RPG has infantry weapons a range of up to 2.5km (one weapon has a 1.5km range and it's own fluff mentions kills at 3km), you do see these ranges in the Novels in the regular games are notably reduced with the same weapons (for example a laser rifle having a 1.1km range in the RPG yet only has a range of 180ish meters in the Game)
Also even though infantry weapons in the novels have 1+ km ranges most of the ranges in the novels / fluff use the games ranges...

In space a hex is 18km across, battlemechs can engage targets in the same hex the unit is in, indicating that ranges of upwards of 18km (mech firing across the hex to the other side, which is an extreme example of this situation but it dose work).

Incidentally Strategic ops dose provide for a number of weapons to be able to engage out to the units line of sight, for 12 meter tall objects the horizon is 10+ km, though for play ability the game dose have optional rules for much reduced LoS ranges.


For a while the battletechnology magazine was cannon, and it did provide a little know rules for long range combat with it, energy weapons had LoS capability, Ballistic weapons had a max range that was 7.5x their long range (I.e. a AC-20 with a 2km range), and missiles had a 5x range modifier.

MGs had like a 15x modifier but did practically no damage out past a few hundred meters
Flamers had no range modifiers.
Though this was done before clan tech was really around IIRC.

[Karl Streiger]

Well to be fair you should add that the Tactical Ranges are for a game that could be played on a table.
Take a look for the RPG ranges: 1500m for a MachineGun and of course you hardly play RPG on a table.

Nebfer, on 03 February 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

For a while the battletechnology magazine was cannon, and it did provide a little know rules for long range combat with it, energy weapons had LoS capability, Ballistic weapons had a max range that was 7.5x their long range (I.e. a AC-20 with a 2km range), and missiles had a 5x range modifier.

MGs had like a 15x modifier but did practically no damage out past a few hundred meters
Flamers had no range modifiers.
Though this was done before clan tech was really around IIRC.

Oh... i didn't read those magazines but i have somewhere a table with those range mods it is really interesting. But again you have to consider that you have top play it on a table.

[martian]

Solis Obscuri, on 02 February 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

What never made any damn sense, though, was the Quickdraw supposedly being designed as a competitor to the Rifleman as an anti-aircraft 'mech. Everything about it screamed that it was more of a competitor to the Dragon, a fast brawler and skirmisher, not a anti-air/fire support platform.

The moments, when fluff does not make sense, are quite common in BattleTech unfortunately.

[Metus regem]

One of my personal favorites are an Aerospace Fighter with an Active Probe, now does the Active Probe have the Aerospace maps for hexes or Mech maps for hexes, when you bring that Aerospace assets to a battle Tech game? As it makes a big difference for finding powered down mechs...

[Strum Wealh]

Hit the Deck, on 02 February 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

In lore there are 'Mechs like the Rifleman which are designed to fill AA role. Now, in TT the range of weapons are actually not that far if I get it correctly. Then how could such weapons/Mechs reach aerospace fighters flying high up in the sky? Unless they are flying really low which would be dumb....

I guess there are more things in the lore which need to be translated into a game environment so you could have a working game. Am I correct in my assumption?

"However, players should note that such 'real world' terms are abstractions when applied to the board game. Classic BattleTech is a game, not a detailed simulation. Therefore, the real world must take a back seat to game play - for simplicity, length of play, space required and simple enjoyment." - Total Warfare, pg. 36

"It is important to note that fiction, though essential in making the game universe come alive, should never be construed as rules. While Classic BattleTech fiction usually attempts to adhere to the aesthetics established by the rules, authors often use creative license to accomplish the needs of a given story." - Total Warfare, pg. 09

All that being said, I personally would have preferred PGI making the MWO maps truly enormous (e.g. minimum 10 kilometer radius) and used the BattleForce scaling (1 hex = 180 meters) for 'Mech weapon ranges, while still using the standard BT scaling (1 hex = 30 meters) for 'Mech speeds...

[Nebfer]

Metus regem, on 07 February 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

One of my personal favorites are an Aerospace Fighter with an Active Probe, now does the Active Probe have the Aerospace maps for hexes or Mech maps for hexes, when you bring that Aerospace assets to a battle Tech game? As it makes a big difference for finding powered down mechs...

Well in space a fighter mounting an active probe can null a ECM field in two ways, short range or medium range (short is 6 hexes, medium is 12), short range also is 360 coverage, where as medium is nose arc only. Active probes null the ECM effects of all fighters, fighter squadrons and small craft. For larger craft it can reduce the effect by 2 to a minimum of zero per hex.
As for ECM on fighters it's ECM field is same hex (and only if it has a ECM pod), small craft are adjacent hexes (or same hex if not equipped with a pod), larger ships ignore fighter and small craft ECM, Dropships ECM is adjacent hexs, warships and military space stations are two hexes out.

For every hex a unit has to fire through to reach a unit adds a +1 to hit penalty to a maximum of +4, warship ECM dose stack with fighter ECM (so a fighter trying to hit a target behind a warship and a squadron of fighters will be effected by both), but a warship doing the same will ignore the fighters ECM.

A Space hex is 18km across
Atmospheric hexes are 500m across, though the above ECM rules do not apply to that scale, the rules state that these rules only apply to space combat, and dose not effect ground units and Atmospheric combat.

[Strum Wealh]

Now, imagine what would have happened if MWO had been built with the BattleForce scaling (where one hex = 180 meters) rather than the standard BattleTech scaling ((where one hex = 30 meters) for weapon ranges and map sizes, so that all of the weapons had six times their BT ranges and the maps were correspondingly larger...

SLas, SPLas, MG, and Flamers with a 540 meter effective range?
MPLas with a 1080 meter effective range?
MLas, AC/20, and SRM with a 1620 meter effective ranges?
LPLas with a 1800 meter effective range?
LLas and AC/10 with a 2700 meter effective range?
PPC and AC/5 with a 3240 meter effective range?
ERLLas with a 3420 meter effective range?
LRM with a 3780 meter effective range?
Gauss Rifle with a 3960 meter effective range?
ER-PPC with a 4140 meter effective range?
AC/2 with a 4320 meter effective range?

Maps that were of a minimum 10000 meter (10 km) radius, with a 10 km ceiling?

One must admit, that things like "anti-aircraft 'Mechs" make much more sense from a logic & realism perspective in that context, yes?

[martian]

Strum Wealh, on 08 February 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

All that being said, I personally would have preferred PGI making the MWO maps truly enormous (e.g. minimum 10 kilometer radius) and used the BattleForce scaling (1 hex = 180 meters) for 'Mech weapon ranges, while still using the standard BT scaling (1 hex = 30 meters) for 'Mech speeds...

Perhaps with the implementation of Infotech, PGI could create some really big maps, so scout 'Mechs will be actually useful for scouting.

[Koniving]

Hit the Deck, on 02 February 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

In lore there are 'Mechs like the Rifleman which are designed to fill AA role. Now, in TT the range of weapons are actually not that far if I get it correctly. Then how could such weapons/Mechs reach aerospace fighters flying high up in the sky? Unless they are flying really low which would be dumb....

I guess there are more things in the lore which need to be translated into a game environment so you could have a working game. Am I correct in my assumption?

It's a cross between that and other factors. The game came before the lore, mind you, and lore works heavily to incorporate things and sometimes things in lore requires the game to incorporate new rules (such as Stackpoling).

That says, there is a Very elaborate detail about the weapon ranges as written by first Battletech Novelist, William H Keith Jr.
I recite from the pages he wrote on the subject:





The original explanations for ranges circa 1980's. Think it was either 84 or 86, I could look but laziness.

For those who would say that BattleTechnology is no longer canon, I will happily retort with the reasoning: Conflicts in later lore revisions (such as

Spoiler

PPC is too heavy to swing around quickly doesn't make sense with ER PPC being just fine yet same weight; so revision is PPCs have a field inhibitor which degrades their performance [more specifically the weapon needs time to charge and fire and so fast targets up close are hard to hit. The ER PPC doesn't have this, thus pow, solved with new lore.

The original reasoning also factored in something else; over 90% of mechs at that time which had a PPC also had art showing the PPC as hand-wielded and all ER PPC art had the weapon embedded as part of the arm without a hand actuator, thus the original explanation.

) along with the over abundance of legally sensitive improperly licensed artwork issues and Catalyst is trying to stay as distant from the legal issues as possible. Novels since the official statement of BattleTechnology's removal from canon status and Catalyst lore books still make references to the magazine.

--------

If the images aren't easy to read, lasers have "theoretically unlimited range," but atmosphere, dust, smoke, etc. limits its effectiveness. Autocannons have ranges in excess of 2,000 meters, but the likelihood of consistently hitting a target as nimble as a battlemech is limited to much shorter ranges.
The BT ranges are "Accurate" expectations of a standard pilot. A pilot with higher skills can actually use weapons effectively well beyond those ranges.
Where BT TT and BT Lore differ heavily is on front-loaded pinpoint damage (per weapon for TT). The lore has weapons that spread damage significantly, where only PPCs, Gauss Rifles, and missiles are genuinely front loaded in the 3050 arsenal. In TT however, all weapons are front loaded and are 'hit or miss'. The closest thing to lore is the glancing/direct blow rules, and even then it isn't quite the same.

Battletech Tabletop professes each turn to be a "summary of events" and should be interpreted as exactly that.
Take for example "Aim". In BT TT, the only time you're permitted to choose where you intend to attack is if the enemy mech is immobile or the pilot is incapacitated. Why is that? What makes us so sure that pilots don't aim any other time?
Here's the real reason the option is only available when the target cannot react: The "To hit" rolls automatically assume that the target is performing maneuvers such as twisting, blocking, or attempting to evade your attack. This is automatically assumed by the act of rolling to determine where you hit your weapons.

So when you see "AC/20. 20 damage, 6 heat, 5 uses/ton, 270 meters", what you are really looking at is a loose category in which dozens of weapons fit into. The Crusher Super Heavy Cannon of the Hetzer Assault Gun is an AC/20 sporting 5 cartridges of 10 heavy 150mm bullets per ton of ammunition, which can be expected for the average pilot to land the entire cartridge on mostly one area at about 270 meters give or take in spite of conditions like recoil and bullet trajectory. Or the Pontiac 100, lobbing a hundred shots per cassette with 5 cassettes per ton. In between there's things like the 100mm Deathgiver mounted on the Atlas D with its 3 to 4 shots per second and 15 shots per cassette (meaning 75 shots per ton) or the Kali-Yama Big Bore of the Thunder which is an 120mm autocannon with a rotary barrel contained inside a large cannon-like drum that lobs heavy bursts of 3 shots with exactly 4 such bursts (12 shots) per reload (60 shots per ton). The Tomodzuru Autocannon is a 180mm monstrosity that delivers all 20 damage in only 5 slugs which is pretty impressive considering the average AC/5, AC/10, and AC/20 is usually in the 120mm range. Their types vary from automatic (cassette), automatic (belt/chain fed; slower fire but no 'stop' time to change cassettes as it's all one linked chain), burst, and depletion fire (pull trigger and it empties magazine).

Even medium lasers are broken down a bit like this but the denominations are far less common. There are 60 unique variants of IS medium laser and they all fit the classification, even though their methods of delivering damage and firing vary greatly. However, Tabletop only has one.

Which brings us back to realizing that tabletop is and always has been intended as a summary. In 10 seconds, you did 20 damage with that AC/20. But who has time for a 500 page fluff book with rules which covers exclusively autocannon variants and how to account for all one hundred separate shots from the Victor's Pontiac 100? And how would that compare to the Thunder's 12-shot Kaliyama Big Bore? (Note: Sarna erroneously has the phrase "one shot" when it should state "one use.")

[Koniving]

Of course, the 1980s lore tried very heavily to keep in the same spirit that its inspiring shows including Gundam (more specifically Gundam shows with the same universe as 08th MS Team) and Patlabor tried to do, by keeping a high level of simulation-quality realism in its lore. And when authors made mistakes, efforts were made to try to fix it such as this followup to an error in lasers.

(Note that at the time, "Heavy" wasn't quite replaced with "Large" yet.)
In light of making corrections, there is a correction to make in my last post. There are at least 46 unique ML variants (not 60), and the total variants of standard ML is over 60. (Sub variants are similar to each other and have the same name, but vary just slightly, for example if this one fires 3 shots with 0.2 pulses with 4.4 seconds of idle time and that one fires 3 shots with 0.15 second pulses with 4.55 seconds of idle time... is the difference really that significant? They're both the same laser, just manufactured by different planets with slightly different materials.)
This is the output for a single firing, now mind you they described several firing styles of laser...and this is before the game had actually had 'pulse lasers'. That gimmick came after the original article.
Instead, they used "pulse" to describe a quick flash of light. Think Spartan Laser minus the charge up.

The average lore medium laser rounds out to about 3 shots per 'TT rating'. Meaning it would usually be 1.67 damage per shot rather than 5. You'd have about 3 squeezes in a time slice (TT uses 10 seconds, but it may be more accurate to say 5). (A shot from any 120mm AC of class 5, 10 or 20 would actually do the same amount of damage).

The example above tells us the Harmon Medium Laser fires a 0.1 second laser 'pulse', delivering 2 megawatts per pulse. Assuming this is an average ML, you'd get about 3 squeezes in 5 seconds. Through the books I've noted that they usually don't go above 6 shots in 5 seconds. And regardless of whether it's 3, 1 or 6 shots... the heat per 'rating' is 3 units, and the damage is 5 units. So a 6 shot ML would be churning out 0.833 damage per shot. By requirement to make its rating it'd have to be able to do those 6 shots in the same time as the 3 shot ML can deliver its rated damage. This also means that a 1 shot ML -- of which only one is known to exist -- would only get to shoot once per cycle.

As I mentioned there is one known to exist. The Rassal Blue Beam. It is a medium laser with a number of interesting things to note. One, it cannot fire without charging. The Gauss Mechanic on MWO? Picture that for a ML. The beam or pulse length is 0.1 but it has to charge for "roughly a second" before it can fire. It supposedly has a power amplifier (capacitor) (and mind you this is written before PPC capacitors) that will draw energy from the reactor and then amplify it. This can be visually seen in vibrations in the 'Mech's arm as well as heat emanations. Then, this ML fires a blue-colored pulse beam -- hence the name -- which delivers such staggering force that the receiving target's sudden melting of armor "almost feels kinetic." There are drawbacks to this weapon, however. It has a poor cooling jacket (via TT rules to accurately portray this weapon, it would have 4 heat instead of 3 per use). It has a slow fire rate as it needs 8 seconds before it can be reused (where most weapons are rated for 5 seconds). It also causes EM Interference (messes with computer systems such as sensors, targeting, communications) when fired.

It acts like the Halo Spartan Laser in every sense of the word.

But now look at the list provided here again. Have you noticed something about the laser rifles? Yes they include 'burst' or 'pulse' weapons. They also included 'Beam' rifles. And despite both being standard weapons, a Beam laser in this case is more akin to Star Trek's original pilot episode's phasers where they could hold the trigger for a few seconds before having to release, and for the Intek and Magna there are per-second energy consumption as well as per 0.1 second energy consumption ratings. The medium laser category for battlemechs, aerotech fighters, etc. also has this 'Beam' style laser. By its nature the damage is actually weaker and actual examples tend to have an orange color. (Blue is stronger, red is weaker). However the beam can be sustained for longer periods of time, making it ideal for hitting several targets. There's a specific ML variant, the Bright Blossom, which is a wide-beam ML that requires 'nearly 3 seconds' to deliver a full medium class laser rating. The damage isn't focused however and at 270 meters you'd be spreading it "roughly 5 meters wide." Clearly not very effective at range, but such is why the Variable Range Targeting Design Quirk was created. Rather specifically, the Short range favoring quirk in which the weapon is much more accurate at close range than long (and thus better able to score a 'hit' with its full damage in one spot in TT). This sort of ML would be more ideal for use against platoons or LAV convoys or for anti-air use, right? Well look for the blossom on some mechs in the future. It's on an anti-air mech, though not the Rifleman or Jagermech.

At 4:05 is a good example of beam-style lasers (where many other examples in there are closer to pulse style standard lasers).

------------------

Now, BT's actual pulse lasers (not truly mentioned in these referenes) are more like this.

And are noted to be laser machine guns. Note before I was talking about standard lasers with counted "laser-pulses" as in quick zaps to make their rating and other kinds of standard medium lasers measured in 'beams'? Those are NOT to be confused with BT's actual pulse lasers.

So comes the question, "Why are pulse lasers so much hotter for slightly more damage?"
Which comes to the answer:
Pulse lasers are significantly weaker on a per shot basis. We're talking a comparison of the average standard medium laser doing 1.67 damage per shot versus medium pulse lasers doing anywhere from 0.1 damage to 0.4 damage per shot. So how do they do 'more damage' and generate more heat?
They are laser machine guns! Zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap. Rat tat tat tat tat!
In the 0.4 damage example, 15 'zaps' would deliver 6 damage for 4 heat. That's 0.4 damage and 0.267 heat per zap.
Or at 0.1 damage, 60 zaps would deliver 6 damage, so 0.0667 heat per zap would get 4.
Obviously the 15 zap version would be more front loaded but the 60 zap version would sound so much cooler.
This is why pulse lasers have such a high accuracy rating especially against infantry, just let loose with your Vulcan cannon of laser goodness! Of course having to land so many shots in on a target is why their accurate range is significantly reduced, that and the 'dust particle' issue.

Speaking of which, this thing mentioned "Anti-laser aerosols!" YAY!

So compare these damages with a single PPC delivering 10 damage. Is it any wonder PPCs were considered Siege Cannons, or the "Awesome" being dubbed the Awesome? Sure it could only reliably fire its PPCs in 2, 1, 2, 1 volleys (that statement just covered 40 seconds of firing in which only 6 PPCs were lobbed), but imagine the destructive potential when your average 35 ton Jenner or Raven only has 16 armor and 24 total health per leg, and each PPC is very likely to through-armor crit just about anything. That heat? Totally worth it... even when the actual per shot heat of your typical ML is only 1 unit. Really puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

For a little more fun, there's a rather cheesy but free game called Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius has based its combat system on a simplified yet diversified BT mechanics. Lasers are useful for longer range engagements. (BT longer accurate ranges than pulse lasers). These are also stronger per hit. Pulse lasers have a shorter accurate range but are better for hitting 'faster' and 'smaller' targets. There are also dozens fired per use. They are pretty weak, but under very accurate conditions they deliver more damage than your standard lasers. (Sound familiar?) Then there's missiles, bigger missiles, etc. But more interesting, there's kinetics. The Sunrider (it's a space ship) has 9 barrels, each lobs one shot. This means per use you have 9 shots and if all 9 hit, the damage is pretty substantial. Then there are variants of kinetic weapons unique for every unit. Claude has a shotgun kinetic weapon. The Paladin has a three shot kinetic weapon. The Blackjack has a 2 shot (but weaker) kinetic. Sola has a sniper rifle whose kinetic damage is substantial (Gauss or PPC anyone?)

"If all 9 shots hit, the damage is pretty substantial." Sunrider is a computer game and so it can roll for each individual hit. Battletech is a board game, and so regardless of the variant in use, it's all under one category. When you roll you hit or you miss. This is what Battletech tabletop does. Keeps things simple, despite how complex the universe has become.

Now if PGI did more than look at Sarna for info, and if Paul played more than "a couple of hours with the board game," and if David their resident expert took the time to truly understand it rather than "I have years of experience with tabletop games." (note games, not BT specifically but general games)... imagine how dynamic MWO could really be.

Edited by Koniving, 18 February 2016 - 05:30 AM.

[SnagaDance]

Koniving, on 18 February 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Koniving tries to explain something through a veritable tsunami of BattleTech lore...

[Nebfer]

Koniving, on 18 February 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Of course, the 1980s lore tried very heavily to keep in the same spirit that its inspiring shows including Gundam (more specifically Gundam shows with the same universe as 08th MS Team) and Patlabor tried to do, by keeping a high level of simulation-quality realism in its lore. And when authors made mistakes, efforts were made to try to fix it such as this followup to an error in lasers.

(Note that at the time, "Heavy" wasn't quite replaced with "Large" yet.)
In light of making corrections, there is a correction to make in my last post. There are at least 46 unique ML variants (not 60), and the total variants of standard ML is over 60. (Sub variants are similar to each other and have the same name, but vary just slightly, for example if this one fires 3 shots with 0.2 pulses with 4.4 seconds of idle time and that one fires 3 shots with 0.15 second pulses with 4.55 seconds of idle time... is the difference really that significant? They're both the same laser, just manufactured by different planets with slightly different materials.)
This is the output for a single firing, now mind you they described several firing styles of laser...and this is before the game had actually had 'pulse lasers'. That gimmick came after the original article.
Instead, they used "pulse" to describe a quick flash of light. Think Spartan Laser minus the charge up.
The average lore medium laser rounds out to about 3 shots per 'TT rating'. Meaning it would usually be 1.67 damage per shot rather than 5. You'd have about 3 squeezes in a time slice (TT uses 10 seconds, but it may be more accurate to say 5). (A shot from any 120mm AC of class 5, 10 or 20 would actually do the same amount of damage).

The example above tells us the Harmon Medium Laser fires a 0.1 second laser 'pulse', delivering 2 megawatts per pulse. Assuming this is an average ML, you'd get about 3 squeezes in 5 seconds. Through the books I've noted that they usually don't go above 6 shots in 5 seconds. And regardless of whether it's 3, 1 or 6 shots... the heat per 'rating' is 3 units, and the damage is 5 units. So a 6 shot ML would be churning out 0.833 damage per shot. By requirement to make its rating it'd have to be able to do those 6 shots in the same time as the 3 shot ML can deliver its rated damage. This also means that a 1 shot ML -- of which only one is known to exist -- would only get to shoot once per cycle.

As I mentioned there is one known to exist. The Rassal Blue Beam. It is a medium laser with a number of interesting things to note. One, it cannot fire without charging. The Gauss Mechanic on MWO? Picture that for a ML. The beam or pulse length is 0.1 but it has to charge for "roughly a second" before it can fire. It supposedly has a power amplifier (capacitor) (and mind you this is written before PPC capacitors) that will draw energy from the reactor and then amplify it. This can be visually seen in vibrations in the 'Mech's arm as well as heat emanations. Then, this ML fires a blue-colored pulse beam -- hence the name -- which delivers such staggering force that the receiving target's sudden melting of armor "almost feels kinetic." There are drawbacks to this weapon, however. It has a poor cooling jacket (via TT rules to accurately portray this weapon, it would have 4 heat instead of 3 per use). It has a slow fire rate as it needs 8 seconds before it can be reused (where most weapons are rated for 5 seconds). It also causes EM Interference (messes with computer systems such as sensors, targeting, communications) when fired.

It acts like the Halo Spartan Laser in every sense of the word.

But now look at the list provided here again. Have you noticed something about the laser rifles? Yes they include 'burst' or 'pulse' weapons. They also included 'Beam' rifles. And despite both being standard weapons, a Beam laser in this case is more akin to Star Trek's original pilot episode's phasers where they could hold the trigger for a few seconds before having to release, and for the Intek and Magna there are per-second energy consumption as well as per 0.1 second energy consumption ratings. The medium laser category for battlemechs, aerotech fighters, etc. also has this 'Beam' style laser. By its nature the damage is actually weaker and actual examples tend to have an orange color. (Blue is stronger, red is weaker). However the beam can be sustained for longer periods of time, making it ideal for hitting several targets. There's a specific ML variant, the Bright Blossom, which is a wide-beam ML that requires 'nearly 3 seconds' to deliver a full medium class laser rating. The damage isn't focused however and at 270 meters you'd be spreading it "roughly 5 meters wide." Clearly not very effective at range, but such is why the Variable Range Targeting Design Quirk was created. Rather specifically, the Short range favoring quirk in which the weapon is much more accurate at close range than long (and thus better able to score a 'hit' with its full damage in one spot in TT). This sort of ML would be more ideal for use against platoons or LAV convoys or for anti-air use, right? Well look for the blossom on some mechs in the future. It's on an anti-air mech, though not the Rifleman or Jagermech.


------------------


And are noted to be laser machine guns. Note before I was talking about standard lasers with counted "laser-pulses" as in quick zaps to make their rating and other kinds of standard medium lasers measured in 'beams'? Those are NOT to be confused with BT's actual pulse lasers.

So comes the question, "Why are pulse lasers so much hotter for slightly more damage?"
Which comes to the answer:
Pulse lasers are significantly weaker on a per shot basis. We're talking a comparison of the average standard medium laser doing 1.67 damage per shot versus medium pulse lasers doing anywhere from 0.1 damage to 0.4 damage per shot. So how do they do 'more damage' and generate more heat?
They are laser machine guns! Zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap zap. Rat tat tat tat tat!
In the 0.4 damage example, 15 'zaps' would deliver 6 damage for 4 heat. That's 0.4 damage and 0.267 heat per zap.
Or at 0.1 damage, 60 zaps would deliver 6 damage, so 0.0667 heat per zap would get 4.
Obviously the 15 zap version would be more front loaded but the 60 zap version would sound so much cooler.
This is why pulse lasers have such a high accuracy rating especially against infantry, just let loose with your Vulcan cannon of laser goodness! Of course having to land so many shots in on a target is why their accurate range is significantly reduced, that and the 'dust particle' issue.

Speaking of which, this thing mentioned "Anti-laser aerosols!" YAY!

So compare these damages with a single PPC delivering 10 damage. Is it any wonder PPCs were considered Siege Cannons, or the "Awesome" being dubbed the Awesome? Sure it could only reliably fire its PPCs in 2, 1, 2, 1 volleys (that statement just covered 40 seconds of firing in which only 6 PPCs were lobbed), but imagine the destructive potential when your average 35 ton Jenner or Raven only has 16 armor and 24 total health per leg, and each PPC is very likely to through-armor crit just about anything. That heat? Totally worth it... even when the actual per shot heat of your typical ML is only 1 unit. Really puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

For a little more fun, there's a rather cheesy but free game called Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius has based its combat system on a simplified yet diversified BT mechanics. Lasers are useful for longer range engagements. (BT longer accurate ranges than pulse lasers). These are also stronger per hit. Pulse lasers have a shorter accurate range but are better for hitting 'faster' and 'smaller' targets. There are also dozens fired per use. They are pretty weak, but under very accurate conditions they deliver more damage than your standard lasers. (Sound familiar?) Then there's missiles, bigger missiles, etc. But more interesting, there's kinetics. The Sunrider (it's a space ship) has 9 barrels, each lobs one shot. This means per use you have 9 shots and if all 9 hit, the damage is pretty substantial. Then there are variants of kinetic weapons unique for every unit. Claude has a shotgun kinetic weapon. The Paladin has a three shot kinetic weapon. The Blackjack has a 2 shot (but weaker) kinetic. Sola has a sniper rifle whose kinetic damage is substantial (Gauss or PPC anyone?)

"If all 9 shots hit, the damage is pretty substantial." Sunrider is a computer game and so it can roll for each individual hit. Battletech is a board game, and so regardless of the variant in use, it's all under one category. When you roll you hit or you miss. This is what Battletech tabletop does. Keeps things simple, despite how complex the universe has become.

Now if PGI did more than look at Sarna for info, and if Paul played more than "a couple of hours with the board game," and if David their resident expert took the time to truly understand it rather than "I have years of experience with tabletop games." (note games, not BT specifically but general games)... imagine how dynamic MWO could really be.

Standard (as well as ER and "Heavy") lasers are of the beam type (with short duration beams), pulse lasers are the well use rapid pulse (and include X-pulse, ER Pulse and Re-engineered lasers), Bombast lasers are a beam that uses a charge up system. Pulse lasers have the -2 to hit partly due to the MG effect and that they allow some time to dissipate the vapor caused by the vaporizing armor.

I do not recall seeing a "standard" laser being described as firing multiple "shots" per "shot" in the fluff, always as a single beam.
nor do I recal reading anything that states the "Rassal Blue Beam" as the only "beam type weapon" nor is it discribed AFAIK to charge up.

Your posts are nice but the one thing to note is the info you presented is no longer considered canon, anything from the old B-tech mags is not canon (unless they published in a "newer" source (and their not above using info (or units) from it if it's useful), but even then the info from the mag is not any more canon due to that). Even so I do recall seeing in some of the Tech debates I have done and or read up on with B-tech, I have seen a some remarks on the info from the Magazine on lasers to be a bit flawed, but my memory is a bit hazy to recall what the exact issues where.

From what I know is that by in large B-tech energy weapons from the novels often fall into to category, causing rivers of molten armor to flow off the unit (or at times dozens of kg of armor falling off bubbling), or having the armor fall off via various ways, often noting fragments (I.e. explosive vaporization). Even so considering the stated typical armor composition (CBN (Cubic Boron Nitrite) and Mono-crystal steel), To melt a 30kg each of CBN and Steel (roughly 1 point of regular armor -62.5kg in mass) would require roughly 200 megajoule's of energy, explosive vaporization would need far less, a few dozen megajoule's at most. Though true vaporization would actually go much much higher in terms of energy (but most materials do not handle being turned to vapor in seconds very well, let alone melted in the same time).

Cray who wrote the Techmanual description of how a battlemech operates, when asked on the B-tech forums, indicates that he thinks that B-tech energy weapons have a yield of around 30 megajoules per point (though he only did the math for the steel layer). As for me I currently favor a bit higher at around 50 megajoules (to account better of the melting of armor and CBN).

Quote

So when you see "AC/20. 20 damage, 6 heat, 5 uses/ton, 270 meters", what you are really looking at is a loose category in which dozens of weapons fit into. The Crusher Super Heavy Cannon of the Hetzer Assault Gun is an AC/20 sporting 5 cartridges of 10 heavy 150mm bullets per ton of ammunition, which can be expected for the average pilot to land the entire cartridge on mostly one area at about 270 meters give or take in spite of conditions like recoil and bullet trajectory. Or the Pontiac 100, lobbing a hundred shots per cassette with 5 cassettes per ton. In between there's things like the 100mm Deathgiver mounted on the Atlas D with its 3 to 4 shots per second and 15 shots per cassette (meaning 75 shots per ton) or the Kali-Yama Big Bore of the Thunder which is an 120mm autocannon with a rotary barrel contained inside a large cannon-like drum that lobs heavy bursts of 3 shots with exactly 4 such bursts (12 shots) per reload (60 shots per ton). The Tomodzuru Autocannon is a 180mm monstrosity that delivers all 20 damage in only 5 slugs which is pretty impressive considering the average AC/5, AC/10, and AC/20 is usually in the 120mm range. Their types vary from automatic (cassette), automatic (belt/chain fed; slower fire but no 'stop' time to change cassettes as it's all one linked chain), burst, and depletion fire (pull trigger and it empties magazine).

Might I ask where your getting the shots and calibers from? Im aware of some of them, but not all (like the ammo for the Atlas's 100mm AC-20?) though the Pontiac 100 has a notable contradiction, as it's used on the Yen-lo-Wang, and it states 3 tons of ammo contains around 200 shells, which fits far better for a 100mm than 100 2kg shells. (historicly their about 15kg), alternitivly it's not 100mm but 40mm. Nor I do not recall reading that the Tomodzuru fired in 5 round bursts.
Nor do I recal reading that the Kali Yama is a "rotary" fring "12 round bursts"...


The "Range issue" now days is largely done with the uber ECM angle, though their are a few references to the armor and agility as the old Magazine mentions.

Now their was a fare number of intersting things from the old B-tech magazine, the RPG weapons where an intersting look (and still the only source of the main Kurita infantry rifle, in the current RPG I would asume the Kogyo-Reyerson-Toshiro (KRT) Rifle is counted as a varient of the Generic Automatic Rifle), the "Lost" issue has a intersting look on Firecontrol gear.

Edited by Nebfer, 25 February 2016 - 05:51 PM.

[Koniving]

Well, the lasers thing is written by the very first Battletech Author William H Keith Jr., as is most of the magazine's content. The main writer after the 10th issue is Hillary Edith Ayer. The subsequent from megajoules to megawatts correction is made by its members. That and the actual magazine is actually written by many of the people behind developing the 2nd and 3rd editions of Battletech (mainly the 2nd edition).

The board game itself presents itself as merely a summary of events and is not intended to be taken as 'real'. That many exceptions to reality have been made in order to make the game more enjoyable. Among these is 'front loading' actual damages and summarizing weapons fire and hit locations.

The article describes several types of lasers, including those that fire up to 2 second-long beams. Yet the subsequent example shows standard lasers with 0.1 second and 0.2 second beams. What else would account for the difference beyond needing to fire more times to get the same damage? Then you have descriptions of "Flash of light" and prolonged beams. Then there are laser machine guns (pulse lasers) or pulsating beams (strangely, pulse lasers and standard lasers have had this description).

Far as the autocannon calibers and counts, it is a mixture of the novels (which can be inconsistent) with slight averaging and some math. If a 150mm AC/20 is 10 shots, and a 120mm is 12 to 16 shots depending on the novel and 100mm is 16 to 20 shots... etc.
The largest listed caliber of AC/2 is 90mm (though the largest in an actual novel is 80mm so far) and when comparing the information of all other weapons, this means that a 90mm at most can only do approximately less than 1 damage assuming "loose categories." Assuming strict categories, it does 1 damage per bullet.

If 90mm is 1 damage and 150mm is 2 damage and 185mm is specifically 5 damage while a 190mm Heavy Rifle is 6 damage (9 damage - 3 against B.A.R. of 10 = 6) for a single shot...
Then you can mathematically boil down shot counts.
Since the Pontiac 100 is specifically stated to fire 100 shots for the Victor (and I digress I haven't found your Yen Lo Wang example but it is curious, as the Pontiac 100 on the Victor is listed as 100mm... but mathematically I deduced it must actually be 30mm... and your example states 40mm it means I'm onto something indeed).
Actual notebook entry from my collection under AC/20s:
((Pontiac 100. 100mm and 100 shots / cassette (Heir to the dragon) -Victor; features secondary reload method. Math comes out to 0.2 per bullet, same as 30mm.)

Removing the mess of math I've worked out for each, the entry looks like this.

Machineguns
================================
20mm Gatling					  = 20mm (TRO 3039) skorpion tank entry
M100									  = 12.7mm (leithal hearitage) -Phawk
Johnston minigun				  = 20mm (temptation by war) Ranger VV1 -discribed as caseless (ch 14)
Scattergun							  = 20mm (temptation by war) DI Schmitt
22mm Gatling					  = 22mm (TRO 3075) JES 1 entry
================================
Class 2 Autocannons
================================
Whirlwind-L						= 32mm (Binding force) BlackJack BJ-1, Burst fire.
Whirlwind-L						= 30mm (Threads of ambition) Blackjack BJ-1, 10 shots?  Comes out to 0.2 damage/shot.
SarLon								  = 30mm (TRO 3026) Warrior VTOL, non-specific.
Thor RAC-2							  = 40mm (TRO 3058) Warrior VTOL, non-specific.
Mydron Model D-rf (Ultra) = 20mm (Imminent Crisis) Jagermech III  (Re-read, inconclusive.)
Mydron Model D				  = 30mm (Threads of ambition) Jagermech (10-14 shots.)
Defiance Shredder LBX	= 20mm (Fortress republic) -Catapult ("over a dozen" in a cluster.)
================================
Class 5 Autocannons
================================
GM Nova 5  Ultra		  = 50mm (Binding force) -Cataphract (Re-read.)  Findings unconclusive.
GM Nova 5  Ultra		  = 40mm (Illusions of victory) -Cataphract (Re-read).  Did not seem specific, findings unconclusive.
GM Whirlwind			  = 120mm (Thunder ridge & Wolves on the border) -Marauder Unclear total, but 3-4 shots per second for "a few seconds."  Really inconsistent with other findings.
GM Whirlwind			  = 50mm (killing field) -Marauder Unclear total.  Burst.  Seems over a dozen before pauses.  Math suggests 15 shots at 0.33 damage.
Armstrong J11			= 80mm or 90mm (Thunder ridge) -Shadow Hawk, suspect typo.  Sarna says 80mm.  Automatic.  Between 6 and 8 shots.  Six fits theory.
Imperator-A				= 80mm (Price of Glory) -Riflemen (automatic, seems between 5 and 10)
Whirlwind						= 60mm (Price of glory) -Wolverine, seems to be 12-15.
Whirlwind						= 90mm (Wolves on the border) -Wolverine (Need to reread, forgot to write down!)  Suggest 5 shot?
Imperator Ultra AC-5  = 80mm (Storms of fate) -Vulcan & Daikyu, churns about a dozen in a few seconds.  Sounds nasty.  (Cut in half due to ultra mode, six shots.  Fits six shot theory.)
Armstrong AC-5		  = 50mm (Double blind) -Clint,  Between 15 and 20?  Assuming 17, it's a wonky uncharacteristic number but can work.
Armstrong AC-5		  = 105mm (TRO 3075) -Merkava Hvy Tank, Non-specific.
Pontiac Light			= 40mm (Illusions of victory) -Striker mech, approx 20 shots.  Humorously manages better damage than pontiac 100 per bullet at 0.25 over P100's 0.2.  So much for 'Light'.
Snake killer LAC5		= 60mm (Battlecorps) -Shadowhawk-9D, "Less than 20."
Mydron Model RC RAC5  = 50mm (A call to arms & fortress republic) -Legionnaire & Rifleman, No way to even estimate based on text.
Mydron Tornado  RAC5  = 50mm (By Temptations and By War) -DI Schmitt, "Yo dog I heard you like Gatlings so I put a Gat in your Gat so you can shoot your Gat while you Gat."  Seriously, this is just messed up.
Defiance type J AC-5  = 75mm (Heir to the dragon) -Zeus 6S (Real oddball.)
================================
Class 10 Autocannons
================================
Luxor-D						 = 80mm (Price of glory, Ghost of winter) -Centurion (LBX), has "10 to 11" things per shot.
Mydron Excel UAC		   = 80mm (Patriots and tyrants) -Enforcer.  42 shots before reload!?!?!?!?  Side note:  Enforcer extended magazine quirk likely doubles shot count per reload on top of UAC variant.	Cut to half then half = 10.5 shots for about 10 damage.
Mydron Excel LBX		   = 80mm (Patriots and tyrants) -Dragon Fire, 9 things in stated shot.
Mydron Excel LBX		   = 80mm (Illusions of victory)  -Cataphract, 10 things in stated shot.
Defiance Disintegrator? = 100mm (end game) -Banshee  Curiously, 9 to 11 things in stated shot.
Mydron Model B		   = 80mm (Flash point) -Bushwacker, 12 to 13 shots.  Weird firing pattern.  Fits AC/5 80mm 0.833 damage theory.
Federated AC-10		 = 80mm (Flash point) -Enforcer Non-specific.  Sounds like 20+.  Note extended mag quirk.
Imperator Code Red	   = 100mm (Flashpoint) -Challenger MBT
KaliYama						   = 80mm (Illusions of victory) -Orion
Imperator Code Red	   = 80mm (Illusions of victory) -Emperor
Imperator-B					 = Non-specific (Warrior en Guard) Urbanmech (implied to be similer in caliber as the Riflemen's AC/5 which is 80mm.)
================================
Class 20 Autocannons
================================
Luxuor Devastator				 = 120mm (Storms of fate) -Typhoon UAV (Burst fire.  Shot count very suspect. Why 15?)
Death Giver							 = 120mm (Storms of Fate) -King Crab (Burst fire.  Cause of 120mm 12 shot theory when compared with AC/5 120mms)
Death Giver							 = 100mm (Heir to the dragon) -Atlas (Autofire.)
Pontiac 100.  100mm and 100 shots / cassette ([i]Heir to the dragon[/i]) -Victor; features secondary reload method.  Math comes out to 0.2 per bullet, same as 30mm.
Armstrong								 = 120mm (binding force) -Von Luckner MBT
Chemjet								 = 185mm (TRO 3026) -Demolisher I tank and Monitor Naval Vessel.  (States to fire a salvo.)  (Sarna, BattletechWiki, and Catalyst Game Labs designer Herbert Beas II all state "The chemjet gun fires a 'few' rounds per salvo.)  (Few is defined as 3-4.)  (Autocannon variants suggested image presents '3' for Chemjet gun; used as basis in this video.  (Edit: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YveinIpD0to"]Forced link here[/url].))  Math doesn't add up based on Heavy Rifle findings, if 190mm = 6 damage and 150mm = 2 damage, then 185mm at 3 shots doesn't work (6.67 damage) and Tomo-whatever HBK is not plausible.  Must be 4.)
Crusher SH Cannon 							 = 150mm (TRO 3026) -Hetzer Assault gun (No shot count?) 10 shot derived from Sarna entry for autocannons.
Crusher Super Heavy Autocannon 	  = 120mm Threads of ambition  Non-specific.
Defiance Thunder Ultra   = 120mm (Patriots and Tyrants) -Blitzkrig (can churn 30 shots before reloading; supports 120mm 15-16 shot theory)
Defiance Disintegrator LBX = 120mm (Patriots and Tyrants) -Barghest - 20 'things' per cluster.
Defiance Disintegrator LBX = 120mm (Illusions of victory) -Barghest - "over 20" things per cluster.
Defiance Disintegrator LBX = 120mm (The Dying time) -Barghest - Same as Illusions of Victory.
Kali Yama Big Bore			   = 120mm (Threads of ambition) -Thunder (Described as Gatling gun within large armored 'barrel'.)
Tomodzuru								 = 180mm (Era Report 3052) -Hunchback. Non specific, but has mention of several slugs, suggesting a sizeable shot count per salvo.  To fit between the 1 shot of the 190mm Heavy Rifle doing 6 damage and the 150mm Crusher SH, while fitting within the Chemjet's "Few shots," the Tomodzuru must be delivering 5 shots/salvo to keep from a rapid jump in damage/shot ratio.  Note:  Supported by MechCommander opening animation.  "Ejecting ejecting ejecting!!!"  Poor guy.  Damage at 4 units per bullet, 5 "slugs" then.

You know, it somehow looks more cluttered with the math taken out. Maybe because of the spacing?
At your Pontiac 100 entry, 3 tons of ammo having 200 rounds.. That's 66.67 bullets per ton. OR, if the on-going joke about "Rounds" being magazines/cassettes, that's 200 cassettes with each ton having 66.67 cassettes in them. It's likely that 200 would be the rounded number of say 198.

Figuring with the math I have for a 40mm weapon at 0.25 damage per bullet, that's 80 bullets per 20 damage... For 3 tons 5 units of 80 per ton = 1200 bullets, which when divided into 200 cassettes actually comes out to an even 6 shots per cassette. It's here that the 'rounded up' theory doesn't work and 198 cassettes isn't possible.

Interesting how this works out. Now it'd be 13 and 1/3rd cassettes fired to equal 20 damage at 80 bullets.

If we restore that 200 bullets = 3x5x20 (3 tons containing 5 uses of 20 damage each), the damage per bullet is 0.67 (rounded) or 2/3rds of a unit of armor. That would basically make anything above 50mm (and up to 80mm) in every other form of BT lore completely worthless, if this 40mm is doing that much damage with that little effort.

It would be interesting to see the exact wording. After all in 3 tons of ammo bins, it's possible to just have 200 rounds left over. Anyway, from what I'm looking at here for an example of 40mm anti-tank cannons, I'm looking at a 2 lb (900 grams) shell. Which for one ton comes out to exactly 1,000 shells in 2,000 lbs (1 ton). Give or take ammo chutes, the bin itself, etc. implied by BT weights and we're looking at about 800 of these, separated into 5 separate 'cassettes' for the 'strict' use. But as above,

However, as we are well aware, the autocannon entry strictly states that Autocannons are not based on tank cannons or artillery, but that descended from anti-aircraft and anti-armor warheads of the 20th century, which were based on the 19th century Gatling gun. That 20th and 21st century autocannons are based on rotating multi-barrel designs. Which I know means that 31st century autocannons aren't implicitly implied, but there's not much point mentioning it unless that was the direction being led into. Now, the autocannons are described as rapid fire weapons, this we know. We also know that they are fed "Shells" from a "Shell Cassette," which is incorrectly labelled as a "Round" by the on-board computers tracking AC Inventories. Hence why I mentioned the "on going joke in Battletech" above about 'rounds' being cassettes.

Edited by Koniving, 27 February 2016 - 09:56 AM.

[Koniving]

Nebfer, on 25 February 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Might I ask where your getting the shots and calibers from? Im aware of some of them, but not all (like the ammo for the Atlas's 100mm AC-20?) though the Pontiac 100 has a notable contradiction, as it's used on the Yen-lo-Wang, and it states 3 tons of ammo contains around 200 shells, which fits far better for a 100mm than 100 2kg shells. (historicly their about 15kg), alternitivly it's not 100mm but 40mm. Nor I do not recall reading that the Tomodzuru fired in 5 round bursts.
Nor do I recal reading that the Kali Yama is a "rotary" fring "12 round bursts"...

Across so many authors and so many years, there are bound to be authors who haven't shared information and authors who came up with numbers off the top of their head and as such we are all going to see some stuff that just doesn't make sense. This is why when faced with a few conflicts in lore (but mainly the over abundance of legally sensitive artwork), BattleTechnology was made "Kinda cannon but kinda non-cannon" as in it exists but it doesn't. Sarna's commentary on that is beneficial to that regard.

The Pontiac 100 entry you've mentioned is among those that kinda wouldn't add up or make any bit of sense with the rest of the lore without applying the Battletechnology's autocannon entry by William H Keith Jr.

(Also since I'm quoting you in this post and not in my original response, please scroll up for the info you seek.

Edited by Koniving, 26 February 2016 - 01:49 AM.

[Nebfer]

warrior en guard

Quote

Justin punched a button. A port normally used for loading ammo slid open in the Centurion % back. Justin flipped a switch, then punched the button again. In a long stream, the autocannon's shells, all two-hundred rounds, shot out over the green landscape. Once the ammo had been utterly evacuated, the port snapped shut.

So we have three tons of ammo having roughly 200 rounds between them (I go for 210 being rounded down, for ease of math), In Heir to the Dragon we are told it's a 100mm sized weapon.
Yet your insisting it's has to be a small sized weapon based on a vague quotes of it using 100 rounds per shot? In fact I asked you where is the quote of the Pontiac firing 100 shells per "shot" come from?

As far as I can see the Pontiac fires ~14 100mm shells per burst/shot.
As for "Hundreds" I tend to view that as speak for "lots" it' not to unknown (though more common for RACs IIRC) for a writer to write that an Autocannon to have fired off "hundreds of rounds, in a (long) burst...

In battletech it's not unknown for a Autocannon to be depicted as a rotary, or single barreled, Ultras are the same way but with a higher chance of being a rotary in appearance), Rotary autocannons are always rotary, often with a higher barrel count.

Koniving keep in mind anything from the B-tech magazine is not canon, as such the idea that Autocannons stemming from Anti aircraft guns is not canon, unless you can find such a reference in other products that are canon (even though the idea is plausible).

And yes the idea of Authors not talking to each other is entirely plausible (or having different views of how things should be), it's how we get inconsistency's in how things work or perform. It's how we get the Maruadurs AC-5 to be a 120mm gun in one book and 50mm in another, or the Hetzers being 150mm in it's TRO entry (firing an implausible 10 rounds per shot), and it being 120mm in one of the books (though 10 rounds per shot would be plausible at 120mm).