9 replies to this topic

[FalconerGray]

The conquest gametype is highly divisive. Some love it, others hate it.

I'm a Conquest supporter, but I've noticed an increased frequency of poor decision making and critical errors that usually contributes to a devastating loss. And while a loss can still be enjoyable if the match is close and well fought, the all too common Conquest tactical blunders don't make for fun gaming at all...

!Important! - Kills carry more weight in the first half of the game, caps become more important in the second half!

In the later stages of the game, it is much easier to come back from a cap deficit than it is to overcome being down on kills!

I've seen far too many games thrown away in the early stages of the match by people deciding to break away from a battle to secure a cap. If you do this, it's highly likely that you will leaving your team in an extremely bad situation. If the other team has remained grouped and is smart enough to prioritize target and half your team decides to head off and "just grab that cap real quick", then you're probably going to lose. Stop doing this.

The maps and the games work in such a way that the majority of your team shouldn't need to be thinking about capture points until the game is well underway. If your top speed is less than 100kph, you probably should be thinking about caps. If you are a sub-70kph assault mech, you definitely shouldn't be thinking about caps.

Of course, there is still a need to keep those numbers rolling. Fast mechs (130kph+, ideally 140+) can keep the pressure on the enemy team by allowing the bulk of the force to focus on kills, but in the first 5 minutes of the game, even just having two cap points is enough to safely focus on cutting down the enemy force IMO.

The basic strategy that should always be followed is to take the two "home" caps, then head to Theta and focus on the enemy. Follow this and the rest will fall into place.

Edited by legatoblues, 22 July 2016 - 10:34 PM.

[FalconerGray]

Some map specific details and responses to different potential situations.


Alpine Peaks




Alpine Peaks is a bit different as there aren't really any “gimmie” points and can make for some very intense fights because of this. I feel like the northern team has a potential terrain advantage, but in my experience, they rarely ever use it! I'm yet to see it happen (pug life), but I see holding the H5/H6 mountain, perhaps with support from the H7 cliff as being a potentially deadly firing line, covering Theta, Kappa and perhaps some of Sigma. Unfortunately, what usually happens is we take Epsilon and Theta and then just keep advancing headfirst into the enemy, giving up a strong defensive position for no reason other than the standard lemmings pug tactics.... Gamma is also notable as being the perfect example of a cap that you shouldn't even think about heading towards unless you run 130kph+. The time spent away from the battle is far, far too much for it to be of any advantage. But if you're a fast mech on either side, it might be worth grabbing if you commit to it immediately from the start.


Crimson Straight



A well played Conquest on Crimson Straight plays pretty much exactly the same as a standard Skirmish game in that you'll be spending most of your time fighting around the Theta and Kappa points. A fast mech should breakaway to secure an extra point or two (Epsilon and potentially the initial enemy cap). An important task while playing this role is to inform your team if the enemy is fractured. If you encounter multiple mechs away from their main force, you need to relay that information to your teammates, who should then act on that by mounting an aggressive push. Take your home cap (Gamma or Sigma), then head directly to Theta/Kappa and cut down the enemy numbers, which should be easy if they are playing like standard pug Conquestors (scattering every which way to grab caps rather than moving as a unit).


HPG Manifold



In true Pug fashion, the simplest of all Conquest maps is also the one that is most often done wrong. Each side is given two free caps, with Theta being fought over for the win. The frustratingly common blunder is the entire team storming the basement to hold Theta. This move is completely suicidal, as you are not only putting yourself in a very weak defensive position, you're also giving your opponent free reign over the rest of the map, including your two original caps. This means that to win the game you will have no choice but to leave the basement and by this point, the enemy will have taken up positions to easily take advantage of the bottlenecks that you will be forced through. It's a terrible move in every way possible, so why does it keep happening?!

To save yourself from the frustration of being caught up in that horrible scenario, after taking your first two caps, you'll want to focus on controlling the platform above Theta. A fast mech should head to the basement and lock away the cap if possible, but the rest of the team should not be following, especially if you are in an Assault mech. Holding the top with a 3-2 cap lead puts you in a great position to control the map and to start checking off kills.


Polar Highlands



This map is another that causes great frustration and division among the community. I think it's fantastic, but many others don't. However, I completely understand how unpleasant a poorly played Conquest game on Polar Highlands can be. The immense size of the map can make for some highly frustrating Nascar cap races, which no one enjoys, surely....

The common mistake that causes those sort of games is teams not planning ahead. The size of the map means that you should not be heading to where the enemy is, but should be putting yourself where the enemy will be.

Take your first cap and then break against the NASCAR mold and rotate clockwise. For the Northen team, this means taking Sigma and then heading to Theta. Sending a fast mech or two off to Kappa and then Epsilon can be fruitful, but if those units run into any stronger enemy forces (heavier, slower mechs, or a larger number of mechs), then they should turn back and rejoing the formation (undetected if possible). It's likely that the enemy will take Gamma and then be heading to Theta as well, you'll want to find them and start winning the kill race.

However, there is an important and potentially match winning detail to follow – move as a unit, matching the speed of your slowest units! It's likely that the enemy will be moving full steam ahead, with fast mechs storming forward to get to the caps ASAP. Stay as a group and let them run into your full formation!


Terra Therma



There is a nasty trap on Terra Therma – the Epsilon point. This point is directly in the path of both Assault lances, so off the start, a choice has to be made. Take it or move on. If you go to Epsilon on your own, you will die. If you send your entire Assault lance to Epsilon, it's possible that you will all die.


The rest of the match will play similar to a standard Skirmish game, but due to the layout of the map, you will need to be mindful of where the enemy is heading. It's possible that your enemy might ignore Theta altogether and attempt to win by holding the other four caps, so be smart and plan an intercept. If the enemy already holds Gamma and Epsilon and they start taking Sigma, depending on your location, you'll probably need to move your team to Kappa, as if they are faster than you, you'll end up playing chasies all around the map.


Tourmaline Desert



Of all the Conquest maps, Tourmaline Desert is by far my favourite. It tends to produce action that is the most different to usual Skirmish matches due to the spawn points and distance between cap points. Once again, there are a couple of traps in place. Epsilon and Kappa are setup to create 4v4 battles between the Alpha and Charlie lances, so be mindful of this if you aren't prepared for close quarters action. If you're running a support-build Kit Fox and notice that your lancemates are a Mist Lynx, Vindicator and a Commando, then you probably shouldn't be running headfirst into the Epsilon area.

The other trap is the positioning of Sigma and Gamma. If any of the heavy mechs decide to turn around and secure those caps, they run the risk of being away from the fight for a very, very long time. It's a layout that is very well thought out IMO. I've been in some outstanding 4v4 fights at either of those cap points and whilst it's a lot of fun, it doesn't always spell victory for your team. It's easy to feel a bit sheepish after patting yourself on the back for wiping out the enemy lance only then realize that your other two lances have been wiped out...

The tactic I would endorse for Tourmaline Desert is for all lances to regroup and move on Theta, with a fast mech turning around to take your home cap before rejoining the group. The hope here is that the enemy has taken Epsilon, Kappa and their home cap, meaning that anyone you encounter at Theta is going to be heavily out numbered. Take out Beta lance and Alpha lance (which should have joint the fray by then) and then turn on Charlie lance, which may not even have had time to join the battle.
Conquest – it's great. But remember your priorities!

Have fun, Mechwarriors.


(and does anyone know how to add pictures from the Smurfy map database? The forum didn't like that at all....)

Edited by legatoblues, 22 July 2016 - 11:54 PM.

[El Bandito]

legatoblues, on 22 July 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

(and does anyone know how to add pictures from the Smurfy map database? The forum didn't like that at all....)

Host it in an image site, such as Imgur, and then link the pic here.

[FalconerGray]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2016 - 11:01 PM, said:

Host it in an image site, such as Imgur, and then link the pic here.

Cheers, EB.

Second post updated. It's a bit easier to understand what needs to happen when you're actually looking at the map. I actually spend a decent amount of time checking the battlegrid mid game. I also think it's important to keep checking the kill scores, because it's very easy to lose track of how far ahead or behind you are...

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Great posts, Legato. Cheers!

[FalconerGray]

The Amazing Atomic Spaniel, on 23 July 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

Great posts, Legato. Cheers!

Thanks.

Even though everything mentioned here is fairly basic, I feel like it still needs to be brought up.

Not long after making this thread I saw another great example of what I'm talking about. The game had turned into a rather intense skirmish. Our team was down by 1 kill, but we had a 3-2 cap lead and keeping up with the enemy for kills.

The kill score hit 6-5 and someone calls over VOIP that the enemy has taken another cap (putting them at 3-2), so he's going to head off and steal a cap. We're then effectively fighting 6-4 and what was a winnable fight quickly turned into a stomp.

When the capper was the last alive, he had only just completed the capture. It was a fully armed heavy mech with around 80% health. The cap scores? We were around 380. The enemy? 320. We were never in any cap danger at all!

That's what I mean about the momentum swinging between kills and caps. In that game, we could have been 4-1 on the caps, maybe even 5-0 and at that point of the battle, breaking away to cap still would have been the wrong move.

[Lykaon]

legatoblues, on 22 July 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

The conquest gametype is highly divisive. Some love it, others hate it.

I'm a Conquest supporter, but I've noticed an increased frequency of poor decision making and critical errors that usually contributes to a devastating loss. And while a loss can still be enjoyable if the match is close and well fought, the all too common Conquest tactical blunders don't make for fun gaming at all...

!Important! - Kills carry more weight in the first half of the game, caps become more important in the second half!

In the later stages of the game, it is much easier to come back from a cap deficit than it is to overcome being down on kills!

I've seen far too many games thrown away in the early stages of the match by people deciding to break away from a battle to secure a cap. If you do this, it's highly likely that you will leaving your team in an extremely bad situation. If the other team has remained grouped and is smart enough to prioritize target and half your team decides to head off and "just grab that cap real quick", then you're probably going to lose. Stop doing this.

The maps and the games work in such a way that the majority of your team shouldn't need to be thinking about capture points until the game is well underway. If your top speed is less than 100kph, you probably should be thinking about caps. If you are a sub-70kph assault mech, you definitely shouldn't be thinking about caps.

Of course, there is still a need to keep those numbers rolling. Fast mechs (130kph+, ideally 140+) can keep the pressure on the enemy team by allowing the bulk of the force to focus on kills, but in the first 5 minutes of the game, even just having two cap points is enough to safely focus on cutting down the enemy force IMO.

The basic strategy that should always be followed is to take the two "home" caps, then head to Theta and focus on the enemy. Follow this and the rest will fall into place.

On larger maps I recommend the following strategy...

At the match start before the mechs are powered up tell your team the plan. The plan is the following.

Only the two fastest mechs are to be at all concerned with caps. And only briefly.

Step one: tell team the plan and determine what two mechs are the capping mechs.The capping mechs should be your two fastest and preferably at least one has ECM.

Step two: Your fastest capping mech or the mech with speed and ECM heads straight away for the second closest cap point.
Your second capping mech goes for the closest cap point.

Everyone else and I mean everyone should be ignoring caps and grouping up like they were playing a skirmish. The battlegroup (composed of the 10 non capping mechs) moves out to the most likely point of contact to engage the enemy (frequently it's theta).

Step three: After securing the closest cap point the second capturing mech should regroup with the battleforce and perform close recon to locate the enemy (close recon is remain within 2 squares of the main team).

The capping mech that took the second closest cap point (hopefully ECM equiped) will now head way out to take the enemy teams first cap point (the one closest to their spawn point) Do not die doing this two caps is good but three is best.
If heavy resistance is met withdraw to the battleforce and fight with the team. If you managed to cap the third point also withdraw to the battle force and fight with the team once you have the point capped (a sliver of blue is sufficent you need not fully capture the point and if pressed for time a simple uncap can work)

How the fight should be unfolding.

Your main battleforce is 10 strong from the get go and 11 strong once the first cap is taken (so basicly 11 mechs engaging 1 mech off capping the enemy backfield briefly)

Your opponents probably did the typical conquest move of most of the team stopping on the closest cap point and an entire lance running off for the next closest. They will be disorganized during the same time you are in a nice tight deathball with 11 mechs.

If all is going well you will engage the enemy with superior numbers early in the match with 11 mechs.

Why cap three points?

Two points are to secure some points to avoid a high deficet later in the game. The third point is mainly for psychological warfare (as well as gaining more resource points).

When your team engaged with superior force you will likely get a kill lead early on. With a kill lead and three cap points the enemy mechwarriors start thinking maybe they should focus on captures.

THIS IS BAIT. you want them to trickle out and try to cap while you punish the slower mechs that hold the line and fight. While they run out to "cap real quick" you improve your kill lead and by the time the mechs that disengaged to cap have capped you are in the clean up phase of Conquest. Hunting those few mechs that left to cap points.

If all goes well you should have enough mechs to take each point during the clean up phase. If you played very well you still have your fast capping mechs to work as "birddogs" to flush out the remaining enemy mechs.


On a smaller map do the same but ignore the third cap. Smaller maps allow for rapid deployment to capture points during the clean up phase of the conquest match so resource points are less of an issue.

[FalconerGray]

Perfect breakdown, Lykaon. Have you posted this before? I've definitely taken influences from a similar post in the past.

Especially as a mostly-light mech pilot. Whenever I'm piloting something fast, that's exactly the run that I make. Unfortunately, you still have so many people who don't get their priorities right. HPG Manifold is pretty bad....how often have you seen two full lances of mechs just sitting on that first cap point right off the start?

[FalconerGray]

Bumping this because it seems that so many still don't understand.

Just finished a painful game of conquest on Crimson Straight. I immediately outline the plan: We have Gamma at the start, two fastest can take Epsilon and then if they're up to it, Sigma, whilst everyone else moves to Theta, where the fighting will take place between there and Kappa. The enemy took Kappa very fast, so I immediately said that they would be taking Gamma and that we must ignore this entirely.

After taking Epsilon, our lights rejoined the group and we had all 12 of us around the Theta area. We're barely 2 minutes into the game with no kills on either side when.......Gamma starts being taken. The chat starts up with guys panicking about us losing a single cap and despite my calls / desperate pleas for Gamma to be ignored....5 of our mechs, including two heavies and a bloody assault mech did an about face and marched off to the distant cap point. About 30 seconds later the enemy team committed to a hard coordinated push and with 10 against 7, mopped us up in no time, taking only 3 losses in the process.

It's now 7-3 on the kills and 3-2 on the caps and neither side has broken 300 on the resource count.

The game then ends with an LRM / ERLL Warhawk - the guy who was making the call to turn around and cap - going one on one with a legged Arctic Cheetah.....and losing.


I can't say this clearly enough - if in the first 5 minutes of the game, you turn away from the main enemy force and leave your teammates, you are giving up the chance at victory.

I'd be laughing if it wasn't so damn painful....

......PUG LIFE!

[Chemie]

all 3 game modes are TDM; just play them as TDM