49 replies to this topic

[SQW]

A quick glance at the light mech leader board will likely surprise no one - ACH, LCT, Jenner clearly dominate other mech types. I suspect even the few Ravens on the list are tooled out for combat rather than support.

Personally, I have nothing against aggressive lights but I do wish PGI can encourage support role players by given them scores reflecting of their contribution to the team, rather than purely from a kill/dmg pov.

It's great that jamming, UAV, spotting, tag, narc, assists have been given an xp and c-bill reward but these are too minor compared to rewards gained from the pew pew. I love role play in my Raven-3L and giving my team tactical awareness through narcs and as a silent spotter. Unfortunately, this means I don't carry a lot of guns nor can I even use them when scouting. Even on Polar, where my Narc and scouting usually lead to a land slide win, my c-bill reward rarely breaks 150k unless I risk some extra face time for kill steals.

Heck, it's not even about the money. It's the idea that a light mech is only worth its slot if it goes face. It's the perception through rewards that playing support is somehow easier than as a rambo ACH or a SRM boat Jenner or that light mechs contribute less to the fight unless we are shooting.

So please, PGI, increase support related activity reward so a few more people will feel more inclined to explore different play styles instead of being forced into an aggressive role due to a skewed reward system.

[TLBFestus]

Have to agree, the rewards for lights do nothing to encourage their use.

[Imperius]

General light pilots will never be supportive only good light pilots are. PGI caters to the lowest common denominator see LRM's and op and leaderboard nerf this mech creators to find them.

Do not expect info warfare ever. We still have 3rd person in the game even though we have an arrow showing leg position.

[Seamus Z Harper]

Giant Robots are meant for shooting.

[Navid A1]

Anything outside of pure damage is not rewarded.

reason?
Paulconomy is the answer.

PGI is afraid players might abuse the system to farm rewards.... or earn too much (lol).
Yet they don't have an idea about HOW players can abuse the system.
They are just like: Screw the rewards... that is the only way to be sure it is not abused.

[SQW]

Imperius, on 22 August 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

General light pilots will never be supportive only good light pilots are. PGI caters to the lowest common denominator see LRM's and op and leaderboard nerf this mech creators to find them.

Do not expect info warfare ever. We still have 3rd person in the game even though we have an arrow showing leg position.

It's patronizing for the vets to assume all new players are adrenaline junkies itching to face down an Direwolf in a locust in a circle of death.

It doesn't help that non-combat roles offer so little reward. Right now, the only reason you'd play support is because you really REALLY like playing support and don't really care about C-bills or XPs anymore. Anyone just getting into MWO will take one look at the post-battle screen and gravitate towards a more aggressive mentality. Just look at the reward categories for light mechs in this event. 100 enemies scouted? 200 spotting assists? 300 flanking or stealth TAG? Nope, it's damage damage damage.

The last thing MWO needs is more gun ho attitude. The low TTK, the boating, the meta, the individual heroic attitude - they are all somewhat cause by the fact that MWO encourages these behavior instead of team work and mutual support between scout, brawler and fire support roles. Since PGI seems to be serious about lowering the TTK and shift MWO into less of an arcade shooter, maybe it's time to revisit the rewards table and nudge the players into a more dynamic school of thought.

I'm sure more than a few light pilots would love to role play if just given half a incentive to do so.

[adamts01]

I was a light player, and I don't think they need to up their rewards because those "support" roles really aren't as important as fighting in this game. As long as fighting is the end all be all tactic by such a landslide, I don't want to encourage lights to "scout" (look but not shoot). I'd like for lights to have other roles besides fighting, but it just won't happen in this e-sports Mechwarrior game we've got.

[SQW]

adamts01, on 22 August 2016 - 09:57 PM, said:

I was a light player, and I don't think they need to up their rewards because those "support" roles really aren't as important as fighting in this game. As long as fighting is the end all be all tactic by such a landslide, I don't want to encourage lights to "scout" (look but not shoot). I'd like for lights to have other roles besides fighting, but it just won't happen in this e-sports Mechwarrior game we've got.

I don't think e-sport is to blame. Those teams are so dead focused on the 'perfect' meta that it's no longer about the 'fun' but the 'win'. General player pop will never be as laser focused and will always fluff about and doing what's interesting. Like SC2, DOTA, Hearthstone, just because the pros are doing it, doesn't mean everyone has to follow - doubly so since MWO doesn't have ranking for the egos to show off.

As for your idea of light's role, I'd have to disagree. Like I said, I'm not against aggressive lights and I'm not trying to force every ACH to play like my Narc Raven. An ACH loaded with cSPL might as well run into the melee but I've proven in game many times a light who doesn't shoot can be equally as useful if kitted out correctly and play the support role correctly. On many occasions, my team thanked me for my narcs because they know without me, their LRM boats wouldn't have broke 1k dmg or their assaults would have walked into a crossfire around the corner.

PGI events can really frame their light category in a more diverse way and encourage (or force) people to use different strategies other than BANZAI! Some people might actually mount a TAG for the first time or hold lock on an enemy for lrms without letting off a pot shot and giving away his/her location.

[El Bandito]

Shooting down enemy UAV should give a hefty rewards of C-Bills, XP, and match score.

[Johnny Z]

I seen a lot of topics about lights being weak lately. I totally disagree, they are quite good to pilot. I think there are still 1 or 2 way over powered in fact.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 August 2016 - 11:10 PM.

[Robot Kenshiro]

Sadly. There are no roles for any weight class.

[627]

Yeah this is the same in scouting mode. There was this event where you have to get imformation points as one achievement, beside the usual damage and kill things. But if you'd focus on collecting all the intel and then bug out, you wouldn't even get 30 match score for the games played achievement or what that was.

Not fighting is just not rewarded in this game. Maybe that would ask to much of the skirmish-only croud that they have to play an objective or use tactics, I don't know.

[SQW]

Robot Kenshiro, on 22 August 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

Sadly. There are no roles for any weight class.

Why do you think so? You definitely can play as support in Lights - you just have to accept a big drop in C-bill reward which is why I'm hoping for a PGI to look into their incentive direction. There's this 'we carry our own weight in dmg' personal glory mentality among most Light pilots and no where clearer than the "get your own locks" reply whenever LRM boats ask for a spotter. It's absurd in a team game that some lights will refuse to spot/lock for their LRM because giving easy kills to others somehow diminishes their own glory which is further reinforced by the reward system.

I think medium mechs as a class suffers a lot more in MWO as the heavies can mount more weapon/armor and also move just as fast due to the risk-free customization system. At least the lights have options.

[Navid A1]

Johnny Z, on 22 August 2016 - 11:09 PM, said:

I seen a lot of topics about lights being weak lately. I totally disagree, they are quite good to pilot. I think there are still 1 or 2 that can put out assault level damage way over powered in fact.

FTFY

You want some support role rewards?

How about putting NARC reward back in for a change?

[Robot Kenshiro]

SQW, on 22 August 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

Why do you think so? You definitely can play as support in Lights - you just have to accept a big drop in C-bill reward which is why I'm hoping for a PGI to look into their incentive direction. There's this 'we carry our own weight in dmg' personal glory mentality among most Light pilots and no where clearer than the "get your own locks" reply whenever LRM boats ask for a spotter. It's absurd in a team game that some lights will refuse to spot/lock for their LRM because giving easy kills to others somehow diminishes their own glory which is further reinforced by the reward system.

I think medium mechs as a class suffers a lot more in MWO as the heavies can mount more weapon/armor and also move just as fast due to the risk-free customization system. At least the lights have options.

And that is why there is no role warfare. I'm not saying your wrong or anything and you wanting pgi to change how the rewards work. But currently Paul screwed it all up for all the roles. Piloting all classes usually all results in just making sure you and your team is positioned right. And doing dmg.
There are ppl who choose to play their roles. Like yourself. But majority will just do the dmg role.
If the game was created away from the esports mentality and have a better system on how mechs work for designated roles then yea. But sadly how mechs work in this game it's not gonna be anything that remotely resembles any kind of role warfare. I wish it were so. I wish they did reward scouting mechs with more cbills and xp.
I wish they reward you for having tag lasers and a 130kphish light can tag away and still earn the same amount as someone dealing out dmg. But the earnings is ridiculously low.

If PGI made a real thinking man's shooter out of MWO. Then we'd have less and less of these problems. But sadly. They want esports mech shooter. Dont even have to look far. Go pick a faction. When you pick one. Do you feel like you belong somewhere. You don't see any voice acting leaders or messages from faction leaders to give any form of need to be part of anything.
As many others have said before. This game can be so much better. It's not BAD. But its not GREAT either.

[B0oN]

Welcome !
Im your ECM support of the day !
I dont really make a fuss about the game not rewarding me, I reward myself by taking as many shots as my mech can stomach and sometimes more than that which most of the time nets me a pretty nice CBills reward

Have fun, the ECM umbrella is your friend as well as your battlebuddy .

[SQW]

Navid A1, on 23 August 2016 - 12:15 AM, said:

How about putting NARC reward back in for a change?

There's a NARC reward? As in, other than those that are in at the moment?

@ Robot Kenshiro

To be fair to light pilots, most light mechs in MWO are more suited to dealing damage than playing ninja scout. If you are a good ACH pilot, on average, you'd be far more useful to the team being aggressive than as a support. Even dedicated support build like mine will suffer if there isn't a smart LRM boat in the team. It's funny the number of times LRM boats ask me what does the narc symbol look like.

It's too late to overhaul MWO and tbh, what they have now kinda works. A rethink of the reward rate and reward category can easily incentivize a few to shift gear. Honestly, a team with more than 2 light support will start to suffer so a subtle approach would work better than PGI declaring info war is the new black and we see TAG lasers flying everywhere.

[Navid A1]

SQW, on 23 August 2016 - 12:47 AM, said:

There's a NARC reward? As in, other than those that are in at the moment?

There was (shooting a narc'd target resulted in rewards for the narcer)...

However, 1 out of 10000 players were using it to earn tiny amount of cbills more than normal.
Paulconomy did not tolerate this.

People have been asking for a NARC reward to be added back with some adjustments so that only LRM damage nets rewards to the narcer.

[SQW]

Navid A1, on 23 August 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

There was (shooting a narc'd target resulted in rewards for the narcer)...

However, 1 out of 10000 players were using it to earn tiny amount of cbills more than normal.
Paulconomy did not tolerate this.

People have been asking for a NARC reward to be added back with some adjustments so that only LRM damage nets rewards to the narcer.

Ah...that'd be nice. NARC kill reward really shouldn't be given just from LRM last hits. God knows a good narc on the enemy lance is like giving your whole team wall hack, not just for the LRMs. Considering it's weight and short duration, without specific quirk/module, not many front line mech would carry narc to farm c-bills either.

[adamts01]

SQW, on 22 August 2016 - 10:32 PM, said:

I don't think e-sport is to blame. Those teams are so dead focused on the 'perfect' meta that it's no longer about the 'fun' but the 'win'.

As for your idea of light's role, I'd have to disagree. Like I said, I'm not against aggressive lights and I'm not trying to force every ACH to play like my Narc Raven. An ACH loaded with cSPL might as well run into the melee but I've proven in game many times a light who doesn't shoot can be equally as useful if kitted out correctly and play the support role correctly. On many occasions, my team thanked me for my narcs because they know without me, their LRM boats wouldn't have broke 1k dmg or their assaults would have walked into a crossfire around the corner.

PGI events can really frame their light category in a more diverse way and encourage (or force) people to use different strategies

I don't blame the e-sports players, it's PGI's decision to appease them over the Mechwarrior fans that I don't like.\

Back to support roles... Yeah, you can do a ton of good as a Narc Raven IF you have the teammates for it. And even then, there's a reason there are never LRMs in tournaments, ever, because direct pinpoint damage is king, by a large margin. I'm a firm believer in balance from a top down perspective, and LRMs in that case are just crap. and the general consensus is to nerf indirect LRMs and buff their direct fire.... People don't want diversity instrategy, they want simple point click. It's sad.

As for forcing the light category to play different roles.... There needs to be a use for that role first. They've nerfed lights as combat mechs without providing anything else for them to do. That was the final straw for me.

Johnny Z, on 22 August 2016 - 11:09 PM, said:

I seen a lot of topics about lights being weak lately. I totally disagree, they are quite good to pilot. I think there are still 1 or 2 way over powered in fact.

Not just OP, but "way over powered"? Really? And either way, we all know that there are 1, possibly 2 viable lights, stop judging the entire weight class by those "1 or 2" mechs.

SQW, on 22 August 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

Why do you think so? You definitely can play as support in Lights - you just have to accept a big drop in C-bill reward which is why I'm hoping for a PGI to look into their incentive direction.

You can play any mech as a support mech, that doesn't change the fact that it's better for the team 99% of the time to be a damage dealer.