26 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

• Spreadsheet link

If you're new to Google Sheets, don't forget that there are multiple sheets in the document - access via the tabs along the bottom.



Thanks again to kyborgi/Pineapple Salad for pulling this data off of the source page on the MWO site.

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Cross-post on Reddit: https://www.reddit.c...ts_seasons_234/

Here is a previous post of mine containing some charts/graphs of similar data that is still applicable today: http://mwomercs.com/...ire-playerbase/

Here is the original post back from Season 2 if you want to catch up on any discussion/remarks: https://www.reddit.c...erboard_season/

[Bud Crue]

Thanks for this Tarogato. Its nice to see that though I feel like a terribad, stats suggest I am pretty close to the average. Would not have a clue about that sort of thing without analysis like this. Thanks again.

[Deathlike]

I'm still waiting for the obligatory mech poll thread that's on Reddit to appear.

[Tarogato]

Deathlike, on 04 November 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

I'm still waiting for the obligatory mech poll thread that's on Reddit to appear.

I'm waiting for reddit's submissions to die down so hopefully I can just post it here and be able to roughly separate reddit vs forums submissions by timestamp.

[Deathlike]

Tarogato, on 04 November 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

I'm waiting for reddit's submissions to die down so hopefully I can just post it here and be able to roughly separate reddit vs forums submissions by timestamp.

Sure, take your time on that.

I do like this one submitter that put the KDK with a rating of 5 (when I checked over stuff).

I'm sure that's legit.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 November 2016 - 04:40 PM.

[Tarogato]

Deathlike, on 04 November 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

Sure, take your time on that.

I do like this one submitter that put the KDK with a rating of 5 (when I checked over stuff).

I'm sure that's legit.

Yup, I've been monitoring for troll submissions. Only caught like two or three so far. The guy who rated KDK as 5 out of 10 did seem legit though. However, he's still at the rock bottom of the correlation, lol. What's a good study without dissenting opinions offering to be drowned out by the sea of the savvy? =D

[Lukoi Banacek]

There are some ardent non-believers in the Grizzly-God. It's an opinion, wouldn't sweat it. Not like a couple of people can derail common consensus based on relatively objective observation.

[Deathlike]

Tarogato, on 04 November 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Yup, I've been monitoring for troll submissions. Only caught like two or three so far. The guy who rated KDK as 5 out of 10 did seem legit though. However, he's still at the rock bottom of the correlation, lol. What's a good study without dissenting opinions offering to be drowned out by the sea of the savvy? =D

I am of the belief that if you don't know what's strong or not strong based on your competition, you'll never gain the insight needed to become better. The same goes for mechs. Heck, it's the same in life (more or less).

I mean, if you had overflowing queues of 12-man Kodiaks (particularly in the solo queue), things would get to a head quickly on the complaints. Of course that's not always possible. If you are only as competent as the unicorns that exist in Tier5, it could be argued you don't know any better.


It's one of those things is that if you don't see what other people see... your exposure is limited, or you are the exception.


It is what it is though.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Tarogato, on 04 November 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Yup, I've been monitoring for troll submissions. Only caught like two or three so far. The guy who rated KDK as 5 out of 10 did seem legit though. However, he's still at the rock bottom of the correlation, lol. What's a good study without dissenting opinions offering to be drowned out by the sea of the savvy? =D

If you try to read into their intentions rather than just asking them, you might as well close off the exercise. There's a reason polling isn't considered anything more than an indicator of things, and not as a fact. It's opinions, perceptions, personal bias etc all expressed on some arbitrarily designed scale.

I've met people, discussed with people who honestly do not see why the KDK is considered top tier. Trying to explain it to them legitimately, is better than simply dismissing their opinions. I valued the DWF at 1. I consider it an absolute garbage tier mech, that's purely niche useful based on my experience with this game. I'm no where near the "norm" for that opinion apparently, but it doesn't make my opinion any less valid considering that slow, torso-barely-twisting, tons of weapons, one trick pony really.

[Deathlike]

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 November 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

I've met people, discussed with people who honestly do not see why the KDK is considered top tier. Trying to explain it to them legitimately, is better than simply dismissing their opinions. I valued the DWF at 1. I consider it an absolute garbage tier mech, that's purely niche useful based on my experience with this game. I'm no where near the "norm" for that opinion apparently, but it doesn't make my opinion any less valid considering that slow, torso-barely-twisting, tons of weapons, one trick pony really.

It's not hard to find people that think the KDK isn't top tier (too many closed threads are proof). Sometimes people really don't know notice trends.

For instance, some people would react or notice for a mech's particular release if they get wrecked by it multiple times. Some people notice quietly, keep track, and try to get even... others will be loud and obnoxious about it.

Sometimes a particular person driving that mech can notice that they are doing better in that particular mech than others they have driven. It's a common thing. On the other hand, it's just as possible that they don't notice how much better they are doing (even when stats prove otherwise), and come to the conclusion that the mech is no different from the rest.

Some people are not sensitive enough to the matter... just as well to say that some people are over sensitive to the matter. It is actually easy to go overboard in either direction, and it's really really hard to be "balanced" in making said opinions. If it were easy for desensitize people for their favorite or hated mechs, you "could" be able to find an opinion that's reasonably describe both ends w/o sounding extreme.

Unfortunately, it's always easier to get loud instead of being more measured in these things... which is why you have to look at how people respond on a case by case basis.

[Tarogato]

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 November 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

If you try to read into their intentions rather than just asking them, you might as well close off the exercise. There's a reason polling isn't considered anything more than an indicator of things, and not as a fact. It's opinions, perceptions, personal bias etc all expressed on some arbitrarily designed scale.

...

I valued the DWF at 1. I consider it an absolute garbage tier mech, that's purely niche useful based on my experience with this game. I'm no where near the "norm" for that opinion apparently, but it doesn't make my opinion any less valid considering that slow, torso-barely-twisting, tons of weapons, one trick pony really.

The beauty of it though, is how well people do agree on things as a whole when you poll all of their opinions in one hat. Maybe one person legitimately sees the DWF as a "1", but the democratic whole has decided that it's at least better than the Victor, the Zeus, the Highlander, and the Gargoyle. I find that hard to dispute and there must be a consistent logic behind it.

I suspect very many people would be made happier if PGI made balance adjustments in accordance with these polled community ratings, as opposed to the jumble of quirk adjustments to non-deserving mechs that we're used to seeing every few patch cycles (lol, nerf the CN9-AL. Wat. Sure. lol...)

Btw, I do remember a certain Caustic match where we might have showed you why we don't think the DWF is a 1.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Yea, GG. I've also lost to EmP using LRM's before. Does that make them good too (LRM's that is, lol)?

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 04 November 2016 - 05:40 PM.

[Deathlike]

Tarogato, on 04 November 2016 - 05:29 PM, said:

Btw, I do remember a certain Caustic match where we might have showed you why we don't think the DWF is a 1.

You might be creating new strange bedfellows with that...


Anyways, there can be some off-ratings like that though. Some people cannot see themselves doing well with a particular mech... and they can see others doing well in it. Part of that is skill of course, but sometimes there's a mentality in it.

Some people do change their mind after having tested the mechs themselves. Some people validate or at least complete their own self-prophicies on the mech in question. It's hard to just explain it straight up.

If I told you that the nerfhammer would hit every Light mech except the Mist Lynx, you could probably bet that some people would panic on that idea alone. Others might not (the few and crazy that there may be).

It's hard to tell how people voted... in the sense of how they feel, or how they feel others can perform in it.

There's never really a wrong answer... it's really how you got to the answer that improves your understanding.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I agree with what yer saying Death. My underlying point was 1) folks shouldn't dismiss someone's opinion on a poll like this, simply because it's off the standard deviation; doing so challenges the legitimacy of the polling effort and 2) the whole point of polling to find general consensus indicators and nothing more serious than that; acting like it's some kind of fact or near-fact is a poor use of the tool.

Consider also the sample size here, the lack of tier/scoring breakdowns etc. It's undoubtedly skewed based on the forum demographics. Polls provide valuable indications, but taking in context only.

[Jman5]

Deathlike, on 04 November 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

Sure, take your time on that.

I do like this one submitter that put the KDK with a rating of 5 (when I checked over stuff).

I'm sure that's legit.

I saw that and I noticed he was rating every clan mech as a 5. Some people take their lore to the next level!

[Tarogato]

Jman5, on 04 November 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

I saw that and I noticed he was rating every clan mech as a 5. Some people take their lore to the next level!

rofl, nice catch. xD

Though it seems he was rating certain clan mechs non-fively, so I don't need to alter his submission. Just a little noise to add to the collection.

My how this thread has derailed quickly, lol.

[Ano]

Stupid question: is there a way to view leaderboards for previous seasons in the client?

EDIT: No, but you can see them on mwomercs.com.

Answered my own question. Nothing to see here

*whistles*

Edited by Ano, 04 November 2016 - 07:21 PM.

[Jman5]

Tarogato, on 04 November 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

My how this thread has derailed quickly, lol.

Back on subject, I have a question about your season 2 matchscore data. Are you positive the averages are correct there? Just eyeballing it, but they look pretty similar to Season 3 and 4, yet the averages at the bottom are significantly different.

[Darian DelFord]

Lights are sooooo OP

[Jman5]

I was looking at yours and Singlemom's matchscore data. It's interesting that as you go up from top 80% to top 70% to top 60%, etc... it's a somewhat steady and incremental improvement. Then when you go from top 10% to top 1% matchscore just skyrockets across the board. Interestingly enough, the top 0.5% aren't scoring all that much better than the top 1%.

Edited by Jman5, 04 November 2016 - 10:11 PM.