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Problem with the new Devblog: Finite usefulness of individual Mechs


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#21 Solis Obscuri

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:04 PM

View Postzverofaust, on 02 February 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

According to the recent DevBlog on Info warfare:

* Mech XP is earned in games.
* Mech XP is used to advance through that specific Mech's Tech Tree.
* After reaching certain levels in the Tech Tree, Pilot Points are awarded.
* Pilot Points are used to purchase Pilot Abilities.
* Purchasing Pilot Abilities unlocks items in the C-Bill store.

Problem: Once you've fully maxed out a Mech, and advanced through it's entire Tech Tree, it serves absolutely no further purpose in terms of advancing your Pilot's skills, abilities and gaining access to more modules.

My main problem with this is that I will not be able to continue unlocking new modules without hopping from one Mech to the next, using it until I unlock all of its Tech Tree and then selling it and moving on to the next. In an example, say I'm enjoying playing a scouty little Raven and earn enough Pilot Points and Modules to fit some ECM, advanced sensors and speed buffs. I max it out. Then I decide I want to play a more Command and Support-centric Raven, with NARC missiles or C3 network to give my long-range hitters some accuracy boosts. Nope, sorry -- I'm going to have to hop in a completely different Mech to earn the necessary PP/Modules to do that. So let's say I choose the Owens to do this; I spend all of my Owens Pilot Points and Module unlocks on C3 networks, NARC missiles and various supportive modules and player abilities. That's all cool. But, then, say, 6 months down the line I decide I want to play an Owens in a more traditional LRM missile boating role -- unfortunately, I've already used all the Owens' module unlock potential on unlocking stuff to use on the Raven.

So basically, from the sounds of it, once you commit to a certain patch for a Mech you're stuck with it -- until you buy a completely different Mech to unlock those abilities, thus locking that Mech into that path, and so on and so forth. Anyway, that's my worry.

To me, it sounds like the opposite - you could fill all the tech trees for one 'mech if you piloted it relentlessly, but that might not fuel advancement up a single chain of pilot skills.


For example, you could max out the Scouting tech tree in your Raven, and pick up some piloting Scout skills in the process. Then you could begin going up the Command, Assault, and/or Defense tech trees for that 'mech, improving those efficiencies while piloting the Raven, and at the same time unlock advancement in your piloting Command, Assault, and/or Defense skill trees. But if you wanted to focus primarily on advancing your piloting Scout skills, you might want to advance the Scout tech trees in other 'mech instead, thereby further advancing my piloting Scout skill tree.

Sounds like in the short term, this would give us the option to either get really efficient with a single 'mech design, while advancing our piloting skills in a variety of areas, or focus on advancing one set of piloting skills while building limited efficiencies in a number of different 'mechs. In other words, you'd either specialize in a role or specialize in a certain 'mech, at least at first.

I'm not sure whether or not we'll be able to max out all the piloting skill trees over time. I certainly imagine we'll be able to contain to improve our efficiencies in 'mech tech trees indefinitely, or at least until we learn everything we can in that 'mech.

Also, if the piloting skill pertain mostly to operating modules, and we're limited to a set number of modules per 'mech (here I'm also imagining certain mech types will favor certain types of modules, a Jenner will almost certainly mount a number of Scouting-related modules, while a Catapult would be more geared towards Assault-type targetting modules, etc.), then in theory, this doesn't give an unfair advantage to pilots with the time to grind all the skill/tech trees, since while they'll have more options in outfitting their 'mechs, they wouldn't be able to use everything at once. Good idea from a balancing perspective.

And I doubt you'll have to worry about piloting that Owens for a bit - isn't it a 3058 model? ;)

View PostBryan Ekman, on 02 February 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Some of your concerns will be addressed in tomorrow's dev blog in a nifty picture.

The concerns about 'mechs and Rule 34? B)

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 02 February 2012 - 12:05 PM.


#22 MaddMaxx

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:05 PM

Quote

"Each BattleMech has its own XP Pool and Custom Tech Tree."
from the Blog.

If you want to see the other Custom Tech Trees, you will have to Pilot other Mechs.

#23 CeeKay Boques

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:13 PM

I'm concerned that the focus of the game has anything to do with leveling my charcater and upgrades... isn't this just a cute little customization that doesn't really mean anything because it's all about Mechwarrior Galaxy Conquest? I mean, cool, little perk here and there. But as far as "useless"... If My mech is tricked out I'm done with it. Swap here and there for a mission... how geared is the game towards me leveling my avatar? Because I really give two chits about that!

#24 Kael Tropheus

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:22 PM

I think i agree with you, Techno. Since this is a galaxy spanning operation then yes the modules should be relatively subtle. Better heat management, maybe slightly more accurate fire, coaxing a bit more speed out of the engines, maybe being able to pick out a mech hiding in ground clutter with radar a bit better. Nothing earth shattering but definate benefits to the pilot making you more valuable to your team. Winning a battle definately benefits your faction as well. Odds are fairly good you wont too often run into the same pilots very often. Thats overall what I would like to see anyway. Perhaps some pilot skills that make you better at fixing your own mech making repair costs cheaper. This puts more emphasis in making do with the mechs available and again, the teamwork factor when in a battle. Everyone has to make up for each others weaknesses. I see this being a far more team oriented game than any other simulator or FPS that has been out in recent years. A voice chat is almost going to be mandatory.

#25 Dayuhan

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:38 PM

Given the information we have received so far there is nothing preventing you from maxing out every Tech Tree for a particular 'mech. Given the Raven example common to this discussion thread. You may start out by maxxing out the Scout Tech Tree for the Raven 'mech, and accumulating Pilot XP at the designated points along that tree. You could then move on to the Defense Tech Tree for the Raven 'mech, unlocking more Pilot XP along the way - and so on through the Attack and Command Trees for the Raven 'mech. Eventually you will have a Raven 'mech that has all four of ITs Tech tree's unlocked and you will have accumulated Pilot XP while climbing all four of those Tech trees. Now you have a Raven that has all the unlocks available to it and a Pilot that has accumulated Pilot XP to improve Pilot Skills. Once the Raven is completely maxxed out then the Pilot will need to choose another 'mech to accumulate additional Pilot XP skill points. However, I am guessing that it will take a considerable amount of time to max out all four Tech Trees on a single 'mech.

#26 zverofaust

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:39 PM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 02 February 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Some of your concerns will be addressed in tomorrow's dev blog in a nifty picture.


Great to hear! I can't wait to see what you guys have in store.

#27 zverofaust

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:49 PM

View PostDayuhan, on 02 February 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Given the information we have received so far there is nothing preventing you from maxing out every Tech Tree for a particular 'mech. Given the Raven example common to this discussion thread. You may start out by maxxing out the Scout Tech Tree for the Raven 'mech, and accumulating Pilot XP at the designated points along that tree. You could then move on to the Defense Tech Tree for the Raven 'mech, unlocking more Pilot XP along the way - and so on through the Attack and Command Trees for the Raven 'mech. Eventually you will have a Raven 'mech that has all four of ITs Tech tree's unlocked and you will have accumulated Pilot XP while climbing all four of those Tech trees. Now you have a Raven that has all the unlocks available to it and a Pilot that has accumulated Pilot XP to improve Pilot Skills. Once the Raven is completely maxxed out then the Pilot will need to choose another 'mech to accumulate additional Pilot XP skill points. However, I am guessing that it will take a considerable amount of time to max out all four Tech Trees on a single 'mech.


This isn't about Mech Tech Trees or XP, it's about the Pilot Points and by extension, the Modules that go towards truely specializing a Mech for a certain Role. As the Dev Blog has stated, every Mech Tech Tree has certain "checkpoints" that when reached, you will be awarded Pilot Points, and that PPs are used to specialize your pilot (Perks) and then unlock Modules in the C-Bill store. However, given that every Mech Tech Tree is finite, this means that there is a finite amount of Pilot Points you can earn from any given Mech, and therefore a finite amount of Modules you can ever unlock with that Mech.

So for example if I spend all of my time in the Atlas spending all of my PPs towards Offensive perks and Modules, to the point I can no longer earn PPs with it, if I ever wanted to switch to a Command variant I'd have to spend copious amounts of time in some other Mech spending its PPs on Command modules and pilot perks. And if the time comes I want to do something different with that other Mech, I'll have to spend time in yet another Mech since I used up all of its available PPs on the Atlas.

#28 Slyck

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:07 PM

I like it personally, it encourages variety. I can be a great Raven pilot and pretty good scout, but to be a great scout I'll have to be certified on the Jenner and Charger as well. And then when I decide to move up to my Atlas "Gozer", I'll bring my experience with target detection and acquisition with me.

#29 CeeKay Boques

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:07 PM

Sounds like your'e going to have to play Mechwarrior all the time, in like, all these different Chassis. That sucks!


View Postzverofaust, on 02 February 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:


So for example if I spend all of my time in the Atlas spending all of my PPs towards Offensive perks and Modules, to the point I can no longer earn PPs with it, if I ever wanted to switch to a Command variant I'd have to spend copious amounts of time in some other Mech spending its PPs on Command modules and pilot perks. And if the time comes I want to do something different with that other Mech, I'll have to spend time in yet another Mech since I used up all of its available PPs on the Atlas.


#30 Naduk

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:55 PM

there is nothing wrong with a little incentive to get people trying out other mechs
you never know, you might just find a new favorite

#31 zverofaust

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:00 AM

View PostNaduk, on 02 February 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

there is nothing wrong with a little incentive to get people trying out other mechs
you never know, you might just find a new favorite


Sure, but in World of Tanks if I want to unlock a new gun for my Panther or whatever, the game doesn't make me play a Tiger. And in Battlefield 3 if I max out all the unlocks on one particular kit, it doesn't stop me from unlocking sidearms and PDWs, to use examples of similar games.

#32 minobu tetsuharu

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:09 AM

In the QnA thread someone brought up a question that reminds of an assumption the OP is making in this thread.


YOur concerns are valid if Mech XP persists even after mech destruction. It is possible all your XP will be lost if the mech is destroyed.and thus your concerns about being forced to use a ne mech aren't valid.

Hopefully the devs choose to answer that question about XP loss.

#33 MaddMaxx

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:11 AM

There was a link, in a thread, were Paul I believe, stated that Modules, once unlocked, are permanent. You may unlock all the Modules of any and all Tech Trees from any one Mech but that Mech will only have so many Module Slots.

Thus if you want to change your Role, but stay in a specific Mech, than generate PP's enough to unlock those required Modules as well and swap them in for the current set and carry on.

As for Mech destruction, I hope the chassis XP point that are left over or in the Pool you have not used are LOST with destruction. Otherwise that would be very Arcady. Arcady is bad... ;)

Part 2 of the Bolg hopefully will clear up some of this Fog we are in. :D

#34 Bryan Ekman

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:28 AM

Yes. if you only buy one Mech and fully level it up, you will not longer advance your pilot. This is by design, because Pilot = Role. And your role as a scout is developed as you develop your range of scouting skills by using a variety of BattleMechs. The more BattleMechs you upgrade, the more expanded your role becomes. Our goal is for players to use a variety of BattleMechs for different situations and scenarios. This is even more apparent when you take into consideration the types of maps we're designing for launch. Some are open, some are closed, some maze like. These all require different tactics, configurations, and BattleMechs/templates.

#35 Mason Grimm

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:47 AM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 03 February 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

These all require different tactics, configurations, and BattleMechs/templates..............................


Which will all be available at MechSpecs.com (stay thirsty my friends)...

What?!?!?!?! I couldn't pass that up!!!!

Edited by Mason Grimm, 03 February 2012 - 07:47 AM.


#36 Mchawkeye

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:51 AM

View PostMason Grimm, on 03 February 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:


Which will all be available at MechSpecs.com (stay thirsty my friends)...

What?!?!?!?! I couldn't pass that up!!!!


Shameless. totally shameless...





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