29 replies to this topic

[TLastHero]

I suggest that mechs be different sizes. If a 30 ton light mech is standing next to an assault 100ton mech, the light one should be smaller. This will give light mechs more survivability as they are supposed to be harder to hit and this will make the online experience closer to the table top game. The smaller size makes them harder to hit and allows them to hide behind terrain and obstacles more effectively.

[Domoneky]

If they are gonna go Cannon then most likely they'll do that. Some 'Mechs are tall as hell. The Annihalator is 17m tall. one of the taller 'Mech's I've seen

[nubnub]

I would be very surprised if this was not implemented - especially if dropships are the size of Mechs!

[Yeach]

I hate trying to link to past threads
(nah)
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1 post #15

Yeach, on 28 January 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

In general MW4 mechs got taller and bulkier the higher the tonnage; much more drastically than any previous mechwarrior game.
The shortest Mech was like 6 m tall and the Atlas was like 18 m.
In MW3 I think the shortest was like 8-9 m and the tallest was like 14m.
(somebody correct me if I am in error for the heights)
The MW4 Wolfhound althought not short was one of the "skinniest" mechs available

MW4 made smaller mechs "physically" much harder to connect with weapons.

[Strum Wealh]

Closer to this:

Strum Wealh, on 30 January 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

Canonically, the tallest BattleMechs were on the order of 12 meters (approximately 40 feet) tall, as depth 2 water (12 meters deep) was just enough to submerge a 'Mech while depth 1 water (6 meters deep) would come to a 'Mech's waist.


Granted, some 'Mechs could have antennae, crests, flanges, and such that could technically increase their height - an Atlas with its scalp at 12-meters and a 2-meter antenna could be considered to be either 12-meters tall (scalp height) or 14 meters (approximately 46 feet, and the same as the regulation length of a fencing piste ) tall (top of the antenna, the point furthest from the ground).

[Felicitatem Parco]

Ya know, I always thought of them as bigger than they are really depicted to be. I know that 100 tons sounds gigantically huge and something that weighs 100 tons should be monstrously huge.

The M1A1 Abrams Battletank weighs 60 tons. That puts things into perspective. I guess the perspective shots used on the cover of MW2 just stuck with me.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 13 February 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[jbone]

Mech's are typically described as begin 10 to 12 meters tall. There are taller and Shorter mechs out there but they all have the following in common none are taller than 20 meters or shorter than 6 meters, and For House Steiner they attribute anything under 10 meters (and 90 tons) as protmechs and battle armor.

The one thing I like is height differences... LIght and medium mechs tend to be smaller than heavies and assault mechs, I also loved in the battle tech pods to run around as a lightning fast scout mech (not the dasher, what was it... grr can't remember) and just go legging on those nova cats and Daishi's. You were so short they had to look down to see you when you were in close. I think that's what a light should look like when up against a Dire Wolf. I will take the time tomorrow to go dig through my collection and try and find it but I remember a TT book that listed heights and they did vary. Mechs like the Puma, and Raven are much shorter than a Mad Cat Mk2 or a Maurauder IIC.

Just remember a one two jab hook from a shadow hawk kills an atlas when you roll six twice

[MaddMaxx]

Prosperity Park, on 13 February 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Ya know, I always thought of them as bigger than they are really depicted to be. I know that 100 tons sounds gigantically huge and something that weighs 100 tons should be monstrously huge.

The M1A1 Abrams Battletank weighs 60 tons. That puts things into perspective. I guess the perspective shots used on the cover of MW2 just stuck with me.

If you stood an Abrams up on its end, it is surely to look quite BIG at 26+ feet tall. 32ft if you include the Gun.

[KaiserSoze]

I know a mech that looked its size it was named a Hollander 45 tons that was the size of a 75 ton Timberwolf

[MaddMaxx]

KaiserSoze, on 15 February 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

I know a mech that looked its size it was named a Hollander 45 tons that was the size of a 75 ton Timberwolf

I wish the Hollander was a 45T Mech.

[Strum Wealh]

MaddMaxx, on 15 February 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

KaiserSoze, on 15 February 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

I know a mech that looked its size it was named a Hollander 45 tons that was the size of a 75 ton Timberwolf

I wish the Hollander was a 45T Mech.

The BZK-F5 variant of the Hollander is a 45 ton 'Mech.

Quote

BZK-F5 - The F5 variant, called the Hollander II, is a variant of the Hollander that looks to alleviate the 'Mech's problems by increasing the 'Mech's weight by ten tons, pushing it into the medium weight class. The 'Mech carries a Gauss Rifle as its primary weapon. This is backed up by a single Medium Laser and a Streak SRM-2 launcher.

As for its size - well, the Hollander is an upright and somewhat leggy 'Mech, and the Timber Wolf is kinda squat, so it isn't wholly unthinkable that the former - especially in the case of the larger and heavier Hollander II - would have the appearance of being about the same height as the latter (especially when the cockpit of the former is likely further from the ground than that of the latter).

Your thoughts?

[MaddMaxx]

Strum Wealh, on 15 February 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

The BZK-F5 variant of the Hollander is a 45 ton 'Mech.


As for its size - well, the Hollander is an upright and somewhat leggy 'Mech, and the Timber Wolf is kinda squat, so it isn't wholly unthinkable that the former - especially in the case of the larger and heavier Hollander II - would have the appearance of being about the same height as the latter (especially when the cockpit of the former is likely further from the ground than that of the latter).

Your thoughts?

Damn those variants. I just looked up the Prime version.

Manufacturer Coventry Metal Works Model BZK-F3 Class Light Technical specifications Mass 35 tons Chassis Coventry BZK-III Endo Steel

Edited by MaddMaxx, 16 February 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[KaiserSoze]

MaddMaxx, on 16 February 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Damn those variants. I just looked up the Prime version.

Manufacturer Coventry Metal Works Model BZK-F3 Class Light Technical specifications Mass 35 tons Chassis Coventry BZK-III Endo Steel

Love the heavy gauss hollander...

[Morashtak]

Like Ghost's sig pic?



Or like posted here...

Quote

[DAVID] There are a few reasons why bigger isn’t always better. First off, smaller ’Mechs are faster, on average, than larger ’Mechs. It’s all well and good to want to scout in a Hunchback or a Centurion, with a top speed of 64 km/h, but wouldn’t you be better off in a Jenner, running at 118 km/h? Even if scouting isn’t your thing, a ’Mech with a faster speed combined with better maneuverability and smaller size makes for a good hit and run attacker. Not only are there places where larger ’Mechs will have a harder time reaching, but a smaller ’Mechs are smaller, harder to hit targets that are a lot more difficult to track when they get in close to their bigger opponents.

source;
Developer Q&A 4 - Role Warfare

[DRevD]

Morashtak, on 16 February 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Like Ghost's sig pic?



Or like posted here...



source;
Developer Q&A 4 - Role Warfare

That pic shows exactly how NOT to do scale. A 100 ton mech should NOT be twice the the height of a 35 ton mech.

Im 5'10 and 3 times the weight of your average 5 year old thats 4 something feet tall.

Edited by DRevD, 16 February 2012 - 03:47 PM.

[Garth Erlam]

You're also human, and under six feet. Something 20 feet high and something 10 feet high will weight vastly different amounts. Due to the effect of gravity, higher objects need greater mass at certain heights (and weights).

[Strum Wealh]

DRevD, on 16 February 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Morashtak, on 16 February 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Like Ghost's sig pic?

That pic shows exactly how NOT to do scale. A 100 ton mech should NOT be twice the the height of a 35 ton mech.

Im 5'10 and 3 times the weight of your average 5 year old thats 4 something feet tall.

Admittedly, I am also a bit bothered by the scale indicated by that picture, although it's more with comparison of the Elemental and the IS Battle Armor to the human.

First, a cross-section of Elemental armor (with Elemental wearer):


The scale picture in the quoted post shows a normal person as coming to an Elemental's hip and IS battle armor to just above an Elemental's waist.

Though, canonically, Elementals - the soldier, separately from the suit - are supposed to be on the order of 6.5 to 9.8 feet tall (2-3 meters).
In fact, there are descriptions of Lincoln Osis as "standing as tall outside his armor as the average Elemental did inside his" and a statement in Grave Covenant that reads "the dorsal fin crest on the Diamond Shark helmets made their Khans almost as tall as Lincoln Osis of the Smoke Jaguars", putting him at the tall end of the spectrum and remarkable enough to be noteworthy.

Bu the scale used in the scale picture and assuming an average height of about 1.7 meters (the midpoint of the range of average heighs for modern human males) and knowing that the suit's hips and waist correspond to those of the wearer, the Elemental - the soldier, separately from the suit - pictured would be on the order of 12-14 feet tall...

Also:
1.) Those look like MW4 models used in the scale picture...?
2.) What is the thing between the tank and the Raven, and the one to the left of the Atlas?
3.) Does anyone know what book this image is from (found in a similar discussion here)?



(EDIT: using a 6" ruler, the above image on my monitor, and a height of 1.7 meters for the person next to the Banshee, I get heights of ~11.33 meters for the Banshee and ~7.93 meters for the Commando, which generally fit with canon relationship between 'Mech heights and water depth ...)

Edited by Strum Wealh, 16 February 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[Outlaw2]

Garth Erlam, on 16 February 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

You're also human, and under six feet. Something 20 feet high and something 10 feet high will weight vastly different amounts. Due to the effect of gravity, higher objects need greater mass at certain heights (and weights).

With all due respect, Im not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you disagreeing or agreeing with post above you? Your statement seems to actually support that a 100 ton mech shouldn't be soaring over 35 ton mech, since the taller you get the more mass is needed to support it. Which means you will get smaller and smaller height increases the heavier you get.

Please don't fall into the same trap the MW4 devs fell into by making the assaults way too big. I know people hail it as a way to balance assaults with light, but in matches were tonnage mattered, it actually made assaults a liability. Competitive matches with tonnage restrictions were dominated by heavies (since the devs didn't over emphasis heavy mechs' size).

EDIT: Even according to Catalyst, mechs size differences were that much. 8 for the shortest 20 tonner, 14 for a 100 tonner. Strum's picture seems about right. Though the commando is bit too much on the short side.

Quote

Hello,

BattleMechs range in height from 8 to 14 meters. The average height of a BattleMech hovers around the 11-12 meter area.

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
BattleTech
Catalyst Game Labs

http://bg.battletech...hp?topic=6374.0

Edited by =Outlaw=, 16 February 2012 - 06:21 PM.

[Fury1]

Prosperity Park, on 13 February 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

.The M1A1 Abrams Battletank weighs 60 tons. That puts things into perspective. I guess the perspective shots used on the cover of MW2 just stuck with me.

Correction, the Abrams is not 60 tons, the old M60 was 60 tons, the Abrams is 72 Tons. I am a recovery operator in the Army, on the tracked side of things this was stressed to great lengths IE the M88A1 weighs 65 tons was designed for 1 on 1 recovery with the M60. The Abrams can be recovered by 2 M88A1's, 1 to pull and 1 to aid in braking due to the increase in weight over it's predecessor. Then the M88A2 HERCULES was born and well it's just an 80 Ton monster that can lift and tow anything. Sorry for the relatively boring information it's just something near and dear to me

[Felicitatem Parco]

Every reference I've seen puts it between 60-70 long tons... but 72 short tons would fit right in there.

Darn units.